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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

seligehgit

Discussion of all matters relating to this contentious subject is welcome and the potential implications of same.This thread is solely for this purpose.

There appears to be a perception that the moderators are attempting to shut down discussion of this topic and direct same off to a low traffic stickied thread.Nothing could be further from the truth.Our sole motive was to confine discussion to a single thread and prevent cross thread posting which was adversely affecting the enjoyment of fellow posters.

Can we please keep posts civil and constructive in nature.

The Changes in the GAA-super thread is now for discussion of all other suggested reforms not relating to Dublin GAA.

Extra Mod Warning:
Right, a separate warning to both sides in this debate:
Firstly, any more mentioning of "financial doping" or any intimation that rules have been broken by Dublin or that Dublin have cheated are banned from now on. You can debate the issue of the funding that Dublin have received without resorting to that. There is zero evidence of it and posting about it will be considered trolling from here on in.

Secondly, this topic is, like it or not, a big talking point in gaelic football at the moment. You are more than welcome to argue your point, but posting in this thread to simply mock those on the other side or complaining about the topic is known as thread spoiling and is specifically banned in the charter (see point 8 here). No one is forcing you to click on this thread and no one is forcing you to post in it. If you don't like the topic, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

This thread is here so that all the discussion is in one place and it won't filter into other threads. This makes it easier to ignore for posters who don't really want to be involved in it. As a result, we haven't really been moderating it as severely as other threads. However, a number of posts recently from both sides are sailing too close to the wind and getting borderline personal. So please take a minute before you hit submit to ensure that your post won't fall foul of the rules. We'll have no hesitation in issuing cards and/or threadbans to posters who fail to heed this warning.

Please report any posts that you feel break the rules.

Any questions, please feel free to PM the mods.

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blanch152

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

FFS. The gdf money is ring fenced by the GAA for games development. Even if Dublin wanted to use the money on vanity projects or the senior team the GAA wouldn't let them.

The massive gdf funding is a luxury only Dublin have.

You don't really understand how gdf works or how it impacts on creating the next generation of footballer. This is the reason people call it financial doping. Its a clear advantage bestowed on Dublin by the GAA over all other counties. In fact it couldn't be clearer. Cue Dubs trying to muddy the waters though.

And a recent post has shown that gdf funding per capita is currently higher in other counties - including Kerry and Mayo - than Dublin.

I do understand how gdf works. I know how kids in special schools have benefitted from it who have zero chance of ever playing inter-county football.

The financial doping argument is rubbish. What is closer to financial doping is having off-balance sheet foundations raising money secretly from millionaires who are then dictating terms to county boards while the money is used for jollies for inter-county players.

Happyilylost

blanch152 wrote: »

And a recent post has shown that gdf funding per capita is currently higher in other counties - including Kerry and Mayo - than Dublin.

I do understand how gdf works. I know how kids in special schools have benefitted from it who have zero chance of ever playing inter-county football.

The financial doping argument is rubbish. What is closer to financial doping is having off-balance sheet foundations raising money secretly from millionaires who are then dictating terms to county boards while the money is used for jollies for inter-county players.

I wonder how many special needs school in other counties have access to this? Fairly certain I could guess the number.

blanch152

Happyilylost wrote: »

I wonder how many special needs school in other counties have access to this? Fairly certain I could guess the number.

You can't have it every which way.

You can't complain about Dublin spending gdf money on bringing the game to kids in special needs schools and tell us that the gdf money is financial doping.

As for schools in other counties? I have been telling you to get your own county boards in order and week after week the evidence keeps coming out about the shambles they all are.

Hammer Archer

blanch152 wrote: »

You can't have it every which way.

You can't complain about Dublin spending gdf money on bringing the game to kids in special needs schools and tell us that the gdf money is financial doping.

As for schools in other counties? I have been telling you to get your own county boards in order and week after week the evidence keeps coming out about the shambles they all are.

To be fair blanch, it's been explained several times before that the games development money from the mid 2000s onward was ringfenced for Dublin and was not available to other counties regardless. It had nothing to do with "getting county boards in order", it was only available to Dublin.
That's not Dublin's fault but it's a bit disingenuous to claim that the only reason that Dublin got all this money was because their county board was so much better than each of the other 31 county boards.

Rockbeast2

As Rockbeast's daddy once opined when I, as a kid, asked why the League of Ireland(soccer)was not a success:

"Because it's run by used-car salesmen, son"

bruschi

Hammer Archer wrote: »

To be fair blanch, it's been explained several times before that the games development money from the mid 2000s onward was ringfenced for Dublin and was not available to other counties regardless. It had nothing to do with "getting county boards in order", it was only available to Dublin.
That's not Dublin's fault but it's a bit disingenuous to claim that the only reason that Dublin got all this money was because their county board was so much better than each of the other 31 county boards.

I doubt anything like that has ever been written on this thread already multiple times???? :pac:

dunnerc

bruschi wrote: »

I doubt anything like that has ever been written on this thread already multiple times???? :pac:

The whole thread just goes around in circles :rolleyes:

Happyilylost

blanch152 wrote: »

You can't have it every which way.

You can't complain about Dublin spending gdf money on bringing the game to kids in special needs schools and tell us that the gdf money is financial doping.

As for schools in other counties? I have been telling you to get your own county boards in order and week after week the evidence keeps coming out about the shambles they all are.

Where have I ever said financial doping??? Never once have I said it. All I want as a Galway man heavily involved in my club is access to the money Dublin clubs seem to have which we do not. Senior county teams is low on my list priorities.

Happyilylost

blanch152 wrote: »

You can't have it every which way.

You can't complain about Dublin spending gdf money on bringing the game to kids in special needs schools and tell us that the gdf money is financial doping.

As for schools in other counties? I have been telling you to get your own county boards in order and week after week the evidence keeps coming out about the shambles they all are.

This is a bulls**t comment and show you know little about how clubs are run. The county board have very little to do with the financing of clubs around the country.

grbear

I've said it before in the GAA changes thread but there needs to be an independent auditing system put in place to ensure County Boards are run properly. Galway got the guts of a million in games development money while there was all sorts of shenanigans going on with regards bookkeeping. If that carry on had been tackled sooner then they'd be in a much better position today.

bruschi

Dots1982 wrote: »

Can’t wait for the “Dublin only win because of theyr unfair advantages” cabal to finally convince the dubs here with their arguments.

Bound to happen any day now.

Getting closer now Dots. Although there was a surge the other way recently, very close to a middle ground now I reckon.

tritium

Hammer Archer wrote: »

To be fair blanch, it's been explained several times before that the games development money from the mid 2000s onward was ringfenced for Dublin and was not available to other counties regardless. It had nothing to do with "getting county boards in order", it was only available to Dublin.
That's not Dublin's fault but it's a bit disingenuous to claim that the only reason that Dublin got all this money was because their county board was so much better than each of the other 31 county boards.

Is that any less disingenuous than the implication from some posters that all this funding supports just the senior football team? Or that somehow this is being used to fund a professional senior team? Or complaining about sponsors while their team receives comparable amounts, have had lucrative sponsorship arrangements for longer and attribute money received from corporate donors and high net worth individuals to fundraising as though they just went out and sold a few lotto tickets in the pub.

Most dublin posters on here seem more than happy to see some of that development funding now go to develop the game in other counties that have a need, albeit as some non dublin posters have pointed out, financial administration and accountability hasn’t been a strong point of several county boards. What they’re generally not happy with is posters who are just looking for a snide way to justify hobbling dublin so we can go back to the old status quo where their team had any institutional or financial advantages going: and then rather disingenuously refusing to debate how those advantages have historically contributed to their success and why that might be skewed or unfair.

Strumms

Happyilylost wrote: »

I wonder how many special needs school in other counties have access to this? Fairly certain I could guess the number.

You can be ‘fairly certain’ that you could ‘guess’ ? I think that’s something of a contradiction or at best a hell of a trick... If it interests you to find out you could always contact the powers that be and find out from the horses mouth. At the very least it might distract you from being happily lost.

Happyilylost

grbear wrote: »

I've said it before in the GAA changes thread but there needs to be an independent auditing system put in place to ensure County Boards are run properly. Galway got the guts of a million in games development money while there was all sorts of shenanigans going on with regards bookkeeping. If that carry on had been tackled sooner then they'd be in a much better position today.

Galway got I think €184,000 in 2018 in games development grants. Over a 10 year period 2007-2017 Galway received €784,077 in games development grants. So yes one of the strongest dual counties in the country has just about got a million. In the same period Dublin got €15 million.

Nobody needs to tell Galway people about our county boards past and current. Some of them belong in jail. But those issues are relating to money generated in Galway (gate receipts, fundraisers). Money from Croke Park is thankfully scrutinized down to the last penny. The only hardship Galway clubs currently suffer because of these clowns is a levy each club pays to service a debt we now owe to Croke Park. Its not a lot but it would be better used elsewhere in a club especially smaller ones that are struggling financially.

Again. Games development grants have little to do with county boards.

Happyilylost

Strumms wrote: »

You can be ‘fairly certain’ that you could ‘guess’ ? I think that’s something of a contradiction or at best a hell of a trick... If it interests you to find out you could always contact the powers that be and find out from the horses mouth. At the very least it might distract you from being happily lost.

How is it a contradiction? Fairly certain is not 100% sure..... so I would have to guess.... seems fairly straight forward.

beggars_bush

grbear wrote: »

I've said it before in the GAA changes thread but there needs to be an independent auditing system put in place to ensure County Boards are run properly. Galway got the guts of a million in games development money while there was all sorts of shenanigans going on with regards bookkeeping. If that carry on had been tackled sooner then they'd be in a much better position today.

The book keeping was to do with gate receipts from club games and using the county board credit card

A huge issue in most counties is not having a full time administrator. It's run by volunteers. And as we know the volunteers down the country are only mere shadows of those in the capital
Dublin have a CEO.

Where would a county like e.g. Sligo get the money to pay a full time administrator without firing a full time coach?

Dots1982

grbear wrote: »

I've said it before in the GAA changes thread but there needs to be an independent auditing system put in place to ensure County Boards are run properly. Galway got the guts of a million in games development money while there was all sorts of shenanigans going on with regards bookkeeping. If that carry on had been tackled sooner then they'd be in a much better position today.

Aye, I still wonder how the hell dublin GAA hosted a 10k a table fundraising dinner a couple of years ago and only posted 54k on their annual accounts as the total money raised from fundraising that year.

It might be totally innocent but it was very weird.

Dots1982

bruschi wrote: »

Getting closer now Dots. Although there was a surge the other way recently, very close to a middle ground now I reckon.

Positions have become even more entrenched...who could have guessed

beggars_bush

blanch152 wrote: »

You can't have it every which way.

You can't complain about Dublin spending gdf money on bringing the game to kids in special needs schools and tell us that the gdf money is financial doping.

As for schools in other counties? I have been telling you to get your own county boards in order and week after week the evidence keeps coming out about the shambles they all are.

What does 'get them in order' mean?

I dont think you realise the huge effort most counties have to balance the books every year through voluntary fundraising and levying money and ticket sales on clubs

Dublin have a huge lucrative sponsorship deal which finds them.
And then the GAA give them another few million.
When was the last time every club in Dublin had to sell at least 100 tickets at €100 a pop to help fund the county board?

bruschi

Happyilylost wrote: »

Galway got I think €184,000 in 2018 in games development grants. Over a 10 year period 2007-2017 Galway received €784,077 in games development grants. So yes one of the strongest dual counties in the country has just about got a million. In the same period Dublin got €15 million.

Nobody needs to tell Galway people about our county boards past and current. Some of them belong in jail. But those issues are relating to money generated in Galway (gate receipts, fundraisers). Money from Croke Park is thankfully scrutinized down to the last penny. The only hardship Galway clubs currently suffer because of these clowns is a levy each club pays to service a debt we now owe to Croke Park. Its not a lot but it would be better used elsewhere in a club especially smaller ones that are struggling financially.

Again. Games development grants have little to do with county boards.

the complete and absolute misunderstanding people have with Games development funding, capital project grants/funding and sponsorship but yet speak with absolute authority on them is beyond bizarre.

The fact that games development funding comes from a provincial central council fund and is fully audited and scrutinised before the grant is allocated and funded the following year seems to be completely beyond peoples comprehension and it is the county board spending this money willy nilly on whatever they want.

Get your house in order and you'll get the money. No, no you wont. No matter how well run you are, no matter how good your plans are, there is no allocation for Games development funding available to every county for the same full time coaching program that has been afforded to Dublin for 15 years.

ToBeFrank123

Hammer Archer wrote: »

To be fair blanch, it's been explained several times before that the games development money from the mid 2000s onward was ringfenced for Dublin and was not available to other counties regardless. It had nothing to do with "getting county boards in order", it was only available to Dublin.
That's not Dublin's fault but it's a bit disingenuous to claim that the only reason that Dublin got all this money was because their county board was so much better than each of the other 31 county boards.

Agreed. Its just more ill informed guff from some Dublin posters. The money came with conditions from the GAA that it was for games development only. Money on that scale was not provided by the GAA for other counties for games development.

Financial doping pure and simple. Helping one county gain a long term advantage over others.

Bertie, the greatest Sugar Daddy of them all

Dots1982

The funding for Dublin is because Dublin clubs have the greatest catchment area of kids. This means clubs get the most money in from membership thereby investment in Dublin makes sense because you get a much greater return on the money on the money invested. You put a coach in Roscommon etc and you get far less of a return.

It’s why the funding is being extended to the commuter belt in counties around Dublin...greatest concentration of young families.

This is not an argument for or against the funding...it’s simply the reason why. A reason that is consistently missed by everyone.

Happyilylost

Dots1982 wrote: »

The funding for Dublin is because Dublin clubs have the greatest catchment area of kids. This means clubs get the most money in from membership thereby investment in Dublin makes sense because you get a much greater return on the money on the money invested. You put a coach in Roscommon etc and you get far less of a return.

It’s why the funding is being extended to the commuter belt in counties around Dublin...greatest concentration of young families.

This is not an argument for or against the funding...it’s simply the reason why. A reason that is consistently missed by everyone.

What Dublin needs I don't think is missed by many. What people are asking is the needs of Dublin greater than the needs of everyone else. Great article from Neil McManus and the struggles of Antrim.

https://www.balls.ie/gaa/neil-mcmanus-antrim-hurling-405617

bruschi

Dots1982 wrote: »

The funding for Dublin is because Dublin clubs have the greatest catchment area of kids. This means clubs get the most money in from membership thereby investment in Dublin makes sense because you get a much greater return on the money on the money invested. You put a coach in Roscommon etc and you get far less of a return.

It’s why the funding is being extended to the commuter belt in counties around Dublin...greatest concentration of young families.

This is not an argument for or against the funding...it’s simply the reason why. A reason that is consistently missed by everyone.

I dont think anyone would dispute that, they targeted the biggest population base for the greater return on investment.

however, in an amateur sport, that is setting some unbelievable precedent.

odyssey06

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Agreed. Its just more ill informed guff from some Dublin posters. The money came with conditions from the GAA that it was for games development only. Money on that scale was not provided by the GAA for other counties for games development.
Financial doping pure and simple. Helping one county gain a long term advantage over others.
Bertie, the greatest Sugar Daddy of them all

I've highlighted in bold the bits that are mutually contradictory.

It's now 2019. Bertie hasn't been in power for over a decade. The reason why the funding continues as it does has nothing to do with Bertie, and everything to do with the purposes of Sport Ireland & the GAA in terms of getting the biggest bang for their buck in games participation.

Rockbeast2

"hey targeted the biggest population base for the greater return on investment."

You do know how ROI works, right?

Population, as a variable, has nothing to do with it.

You should be ashamed of yourself for pedaling this nonsense.

Dots1982

bruschi wrote: »

I dont think anyone would dispute that, they targeted the biggest population base for the greater return on investment.

however, in an amateur sport, that is setting some unbelievable precedent.

Is GAA an amateur sport..like really?

The players don’t get paid for now but the GAA are maximizing revenue through negotiating tv deals and putting fixtures in the calendar that put revenue generation as the most important element in their fixture setting decisions.

Why would games development funding decisions be any different?

Hammer Archer

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

"hey targeted the biggest population base for the greater return on investment."

You do know how ROI works, right?

Population, as a variable, has nothing to do with it.

You should be ashamed of yourself for pedaling this nonsense.

Dial back your posting style. You're sailing close to the line.

Rockbeast2

Sorry, HA.

Won't comment further.

The Lost Sheep

blanch152 wrote: »

Neither of your posts in any way address any of the points raised by me.

Even if the AIG money was spread out to other counties, the evidence suggests that Kerry, Mayo and Cork at least, would waste it on vanity projects.

Dublin don't put importance on any training centres. They train where they can, why would they waste money like other counties?

Better off keeping the money for juveniles as Dublin do.

Do Dublin need to build training centres when they have use of third level institutions facilities etc that isnt possible for most other counties.

Dots1982 wrote: »

The funding for Dublin is because Dublin clubs have the greatest catchment area of kids. This means clubs get the most money in from membership thereby investment in Dublin makes sense because you get a much greater return on the money on the money invested. You put a coach in Roscommon etc and you get far less of a return.

It’s why the funding is being extended to the commuter belt in counties around Dublin...greatest concentration of young families.

This is not an argument for or against the funding...it’s simply the reason why. A reason that is consistently missed by everyone.

And this funding extension to other counties should have been done years ago.