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P2P Lending

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

A few of you have been in the p2p scene a few years now. Have you any thoughts on your p2p platforms of choice?

Mintos appears to be leading the way at the moment, in terms of volume of loans available and value of loans funded/available. Are Twino and Bondora still getting a look in?

I felt I was too heavily invested in Mintos so I have tried a few newer platforms recently. Lenndy, RoboCash, DoFinance, Grupeer and ViaInvest. Only small money to begin. The only platform where my funds have yet to be invested is Lenndy. I try to stick to platforms that have a buyback type guarantee.

Does anyone else have any recommendations or thoughts on how p2p will evolve this year?

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sonyvision

Lazy Bhoy wrote: »

Has anybody paid taxes on p2p Lending profits yet?

This is my first year investing in p2p Lending.
The only platform that I use so far is Mintos.
I don't know when, where or how to pay tax on the profit that I have made.
I have asked some family members for advice but I am getting mixed responses.
Some are saying it is just capital gains so it is 33% on anything over €1,270. (but this does not sound right to me).
Others are saying that it is just normal income tax and should be paid at my rate (40%) which makes a bit more sense, but how is it done?.

Any advice from people who have already been down this road would be much appreciated because as I have mentioned above, I am not sure where, when or how to pay any tax on this.

It's taxed under income tax, your earning interest. Declare it as part of your form 12 at the end of the year. Normally they reduce my tax credits by the tax owed for the next financial year.

Lazy Bhoy

Has anybody paid taxes on p2p Lending profits yet?

This is my first year investing in p2p Lending.
The only platform that I use so far is Mintos.
I don't know when, where or how to pay tax on the profit that I have made.
I have asked some family members for advice but I am getting mixed responses.
Some are saying it is just capital gains so it is 33% on anything over €1,270. (but this does not sound right to me).
Others are saying that it is just normal income tax and should be paid at my rate (40%) which makes a bit more sense, but how is it done?.

Any advice from people who have already been down this road would be much appreciated because as I have mentioned above, I am not sure where, when or how to pay any tax on this.

MrMoneyIreland

Very informative thread. I've been using p2p lending sites in Ireland now for near 4 years, both lending and referring businesses in for loans through the platforms as a partner/broker, im accountant by trade. Both moderately successful. Originally Linked, then GRID Finance which dont really seem to have a marketplace now and more recently Flender. Find Flenders dashboard most engaging.
Returns wise, always invested 250 a month and allow that to build until I had the same coming in from repayments montly and continung to lend that out again, has help build a significant pot overtime that can be liqudated over 3 years (hopefully) at any point.
Defaults have been marginal but still present, i estimate my current portfolio to be at 1.2%. Linked I found the information they showed publicly allowed me to decide on whether I would get involved but wasnt always up to date. Their comms around arrears and defaults was poor but got better. i put this down to scaling problems, all seems to be in hand now. The intro of auto bid I think changed to speed in how fast loans were being funded but took the oversight out of what I wanted to get involved in, I didnt like this.
GRID never presented the account etc however I found I had less defaults, maybe the credit assesment was better/differnt, not sure (volumes of loans was lower) but comms always good. Flender I am yet to experiance an issue but still early.

Minus regulation Im not sure I see the marketplace for p2p lending in ireland being anyway big enough for it to make an impact, it would have by now is my feeling. revenues lack of understanding around the whole thing makes me nervous as well. im sure there was something last year about asking the business who were taking the loans to capture withholding tax! How?? interesting seeing all 3 of these platforms bringing in instituation lenders on an ongoing basis which fund large % of the loans now, probably become balance sheet lenders themselves as some point. An email last week from GRID offered access to an investment fund in form of loan notes fixed return of 6.5% per annum, I dont see the others offering this but exploring at the moment and will share feedback on this in time.

In summary, not a huge fan in p2p lending, particulary on an individual loan basis, not enough return for the effort and of course there always that individual loan risk that is ever present. Irelands way behind the curve and with regulation still, well years away I am sondering withdrawing from it completly.

Noteable edit since I posted this, Flenders default rate went from .3% to .7% over a day. Stil low but chunky enough jump that got my attention.

sk8board

vargoo wrote: »

Don't go near B- if you can't afford to lose it. Some real turds in there.

Varks is B, still in negative equity apparently/their uploaded in armenian financials still causing doubts. So I'd untick that to. They have good looking statistics page and only 1 page of late loans versus 57 pages total but that wouldn't be a saving grace for me with money I'm not comfortable losing.

came across this post from March when researching Varks, so I may as well update it, as currently only Varks are available on Mintos for short term loans over 9.5% (A to B+ only)

in terms of rating, they seem to have improved markedly in terms of profitability (-€0.9m to +€6.8m), and (as a result, presumably) up a huge +42 points to 69 on the independent ratings: https://explorep2p.com/mintos-lender-ratings/

so - I've left it run for now and one of my auto-invests has 3k solely in 30d Varks loans this morning, and its auto-diversifies as more LO's come available.

penny for your thoughts

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

On reading it again, I think you're correct. Looks like they'll have both available. Will correct my post. Thanks chaps.

Green&Red

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

Sorry lads, I'm out and about. I posted the link so others could read the blurp but I should have expanded on my post when posted earlier.

My reading is that no new loans will have a buyback, so eventually there will be no loans with buyback? You'll only have both in the short term?

More specifically, the BuyBack Guarantee will not be applicable to all future projects listed on the platform

My reading is that it would be applicable to some, it goes onto talk about how you'd be better compensated for those loans which don't have BBG

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Sorry lads, I'm out and about. I posted the link so others could read the blurp but I should have expanded on my post when posted earlier.

My reading is that no new loans will have a buyback, so eventually there will be no loans with buyback? You'll only have both in the short term?

sKeith

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

Grupeer are ending their buyback guarantee. More details can be found on their website here. I somehow missed the announcement but will be withdrawing my funds once the guarantee ends.

That's not quite correct.

They will be introducing loans with higher interest with no buyback guarantees.
They will not be removing buyback guarantees from their platform.

Mintos has loans with buyback and loans without.
That's all grupeer is doing, add non buyback guaranteed loans to their platform.
Their will be a new setting added to auto-invest, which you will have to OPT-IN too, so that your portfolio picks up these new non buyback guaranteed loans from.

If you leave all your settings as is, you will not pick up any non buyback guaranteed loans.

I had a similar reaction as you did when i noticed the headline, and turned off my auto-invest, then I fully read the notice and turned it back on again, happy with the news, knowing that the new loans are not for me, but they are available, just lkie they are on mintos, and that don't bother me on mintos.

mike_cork

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

Grupeer are ending their buyback guarantee. More details can be found on their website here. I somehow missed the announcement but will be withdrawing my funds once the guarantee ends.

I recently sent grupeer mail on this and the below is the response:

The changes in Terms and Conditions were made as a provision for future loans that will be placed on Grupeer platform. When the first deal without the BBG will be placed on Grupeer platform, all our clients will be notified. And of course, you will receive a higher yield for such investment opportunity to compensate for the additional risk.
You don’t need to switch off your Auto-invest strategies. In a few days, our IT team will offer a solution to filter these criteria, when setting up an Auto-invest strategy. Currently, when the solution will become present, only “with BuyBack Guarantee” option will be available

P2PBanking.com

ProjectMoose: 72% was in G&G (in August) https://www.bondora.com/blog/e14-5m-invested-in-august/
ProjectMoose: Mintos CEO does not expect big rebound (rise) of rates soon again https://www.p2p-kredite.com/diskussion/viewtopic,p,125935.html#125935
ProjectMoose: add Assetz Capital to the list
@all: regarding the volumes. Forgot to mention that Investly is near an all time high too. They have some high paying EUR invoices. E.g today 12% and 14% available. Their new investor promo with prizes for new investors, that I mentioned earlier, is still running. Details: https://www.p2p-kredite.com/diskussion/exklusive-neukunden-aktion-250-150-und-100-euro-bonus-t6903.html

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Grupeer are ending their buyback guarantee.
Grupeer will be offering loans with no buyback guarantee in future. More details can be found on their website here. I somehow missed the announcement.

but will be withdrawing my funds once the guarantee ends.

Edit: thanks for the clarification all. I guess I'll keep my funds there for now so!

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Does anyone have a list of the p2p sites that offer a similar product to Bondora's 'Go & Grow' or Mintos' 'Invest & Access'?

Perhaps one of the bloggers who follow this thread might be able to point me the right direction.

Bondora :: Go & Grow :: upto 6.75% :: Ability to withdraw investment/profit at any stage
Mintos :: Invest & Access :: upto 8.58% ** :: Unable to withdraw funds where the loan is in grace period or late

(** rate is on a downward trend)

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Bondora... is most of that growth from their Go & Grow product?

Mintos, my weighted average has been dropping and is coming close to 11%. Most new investments are 8-10%, so i expect that average to drop to below 10% by the end of the month. I have decided to move funds from Mintos to other, better performing platforms. Hopefully rates will improve again in the Spring.

P2PBanking.com

Published the new volumes figures
https://www.p2p-banking.com/countries/germany-international-p2p-lending-volumes-september-2019/
Assetz going strong, Bondora at an alltime high, October with a good month. Linked Finance better than previous month but too low to satsify investor demand

littlevillage

mike_cork wrote: »

Any recommendations on platforms to avoid?

DYOR

Personally I keep a close on on

https://www.p2p-banking.com/tag/loan-volume/

soc

littlevillage wrote: »

Well, I can't log into Mintos today "The system is currently being updated" is the message. Which has given me a cold shiver up my spine. Why wouldn't they just do this type of upgrade at the weekend or during the night?

In general I am happy enough to stay invested in Mintos (simply becase they are soo much bigger than the rest) but I would be very wary of the smaller operators. Inevitably there will be casualties and because P2P is all about cash flow ... you would imagine its the smaller operators with the shallower pockets who wil suffer first.

I can log in no problem.

mike_cork

littlevillage wrote: »

Well, I can't log into Mintos today "The system is currently being updated" is the message. Which has given me a cold shiver up my spine. Why wouldn't they just do this type of upgrade at the weekend or during the night?

In general I am happy enough to stay invested in Mintos (simply becase they are soo much bigger than the rest) but I would be very wary of the smaller operators. Inevitably there will be casualties and because P2P is all about cash flow ... you would imagine its the smaller operators with the shallower pockets who wil suffer first.

Any recommendations on platforms to avoid?

littlevillage

sk8board wrote: »

What are peoples thoughts on the continuous decrease in interest rates for new portfolios?

I'm currently deciding on adding more portfolios or not.

all economic indicators are showing a slow-down (Which will naturally increase defaults, be it a technical recession or not), and in general the balance of risk/reward in the upcoming 2-3 years seem more than the post-tax return.

Mintos is now 8.9%, which as we know is just a weighted avg of available loans today excl future defaults, so in reality it's lower.

Allow for tax at income tax rates and its about 4% real return at best - before you value the time taken to make that €200 pa for every €5k invested.
I'm also seeing P2P lendng 'stuff' EVERYWHERE at the moment, which is a massive negative indicator for any investment vertical.

For the first time with P2P, I'm genuinely not feeling it (with a 2-3 year investment window)

what are peoples thoughts?

Well, I can't log into Mintos today "The system is currently being updated" is the message. Which has given me a cold shiver up my spine. Why wouldn't they just do this type of upgrade at the weekend or during the night?

In general I am happy enough to stay invested in Mintos (simply becase they are soo much bigger than the rest) but I would be very wary of the smaller operators. Inevitably there will be casualties and because P2P is all about cash flow ... you would imagine its the smaller operators with the shallower pockets who wil suffer first.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Grupeer have a promo on till end of the week but only on investments above 5k.

"Get 1% on all your investments above Eur 5000* made from the 1st until 6th October!"

soc

Svensk wrote: »

Hi p2p experts.

I am only interested in investing in Short term loans and I mean really short ( Max 60 days)

Im looking for about 5 sites that offer this with buyback, no cashdrag and 11% + in return.

Some kind of top 5 list would be appreciated.

What do you say ?

I have some money thrown into Mintos on loans with terms 6months or less. Net Annual Return is coming in at 11.12%. They do offer investments with shorter terms like what you're looking for.

If you decide to give Mintos a go PM me and I can give you a referral code that will give a bonus to both of us.

sk8board

What are peoples thoughts on the continuous decrease in interest rates for new portfolios?

I'm currently deciding on adding more portfolios or not.

all economic indicators are showing a slow-down (Which will naturally increase defaults, be it a technical recession or not), and in general the balance of risk/reward in the upcoming 2-3 years seem more than the post-tax return.

Mintos is now 8.9%, which as we know is just a weighted avg of available loans today excl future defaults, so in reality it's lower.

Allow for tax at income tax rates and its about 4% real return at best - before you value the time taken to make that €200 pa for every €5k invested.
I'm also seeing P2P lendng 'stuff' EVERYWHERE at the moment, which is a massive negative indicator for any investment vertical.

For the first time with P2P, I'm genuinely not feeling it (with a 2-3 year investment window)

what are peoples thoughts?

mike_cork

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

DoFinance have an Autumn special running from 24th Sep to 01st Nov. You get an additional 1.5% on investments over 6 months, so up to 13.5% is available. The bonus will be added to your account for each new investment during the promo period.

I've been with DOFinance for a little while and so far so good

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

I have been working on a script to pull data from the Envestio project and loan pages for each project. I am particularly interested in loans that already have tiers/parts funded on the site and if they are up to date on previous loans.

I do not have much free time but I'll post an Excel sheet with the output when I get further with my little project.

I have a basic output (with some exceptions that need to be fixed) but here is an example - would welcome any suggestions:

LOAN TITLE|URL|LOAN NBR|LOAN CODE|LOAN MORE LINK|NBR LOANS|TOTAL PAYMENTS DUE/MADE|LOAN STATUS|NEXT PAYMENT DUE
urban mining tier|Loan details|80|EN018083|More details|14 of 14|4/4|COMPLETE|-
power plant factoringdevelopment phase|Loan details|81|EN018084|More details|1 of 1|11/7|ACTIVE|11/Oct/2019
biomass fuel factoring|Loan details|82|EN018085|More details|7 of 7|6/6|COMPLETE|-
biomass fuel factoring|Loan details|83|EN018086|More details|8 of 8|6/6|COMPLETE|-

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

DoFinance have an Autumn special running from 24th Sep to 01st Nov. You get an additional 1.5% on investments over 6 months, so up to 13.5% is available. The bonus will be added to your account for each new investment during the promo period.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

So to follow up on the Robocash issue sKeith mentioned.

I had a balance sitting idle in my first portfolio the last day or so. This morning, I transferred the balance to the second portfolio and it was invested within the hour.

sKeith

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

@sKeith, well it appears you were on the money with Robocash. Second portfolio set up and the bit of cash I had left not invested is now fully invested.

I've been thinking about why this is.
My newer portifolio gets the loans before my old portfolio, so what if this is platform wide, to give better impresssions to new joiners. maybe loans are offered to portfolios based on age, and the loans are all tapped out before they get down the line to our older portfolios.
This would explain why making new portfolios gets around the cash drag situation.

Svensk

P2PBanking.com wrote: »

@Svensk,

I Have set the filters for you: buyback, >11% up to 2 month
15 results

you can change the filters on the right

sKeith wrote: »

That list has grupeer, which I know does not have any loans under 5 months, and its 5 months loan is at 10%.

Ok

Feel free to discuss how this platforms perfoms.

https://www.p2p-kredite.com/fuer-anleger-vergleich-der-marktplatze-fur-p2p-kredite?fwp_zins=10.50%2C60.00&fwp_sicherung=buyback-oder-aehnlich&fwp_laufzeit=0.00%2C2.00

Svensk

P2PBanking.com wrote: »

@Svensk,

I Have set the filters for you: buyback, >11% up to 2 month
15 results

you can change the filters on the right

Thanks a lot !

sKeith

P2PBanking.com wrote: »

@Svensk,

I Have set the filters for you: buyback, >11% up to 2 month
15 results
https://www.p2p-kredite.com/fuer-anleger-vergleich-der-marktplatze-fur-p2p-kredite?fwp_zins=10.50%2C60.00&fwp_sicherung=buyback-oder-aehnlich&fwp_laufzeit=0.00%2C2.00
you can change the filters on the right

That list has grupeer, which I know does not have any loans under 5 months, and its 5 months loan is at 10%.

P2PBanking.com

@Svensk,

I Have set the filters for you: buyback, >11% up to 2 month
15 results
https://www.p2p-kredite.com/fuer-anleger-vergleich-der-marktplatze-fur-p2p-kredite?fwp_zins=10.50%2C60.00&fwp_sicherung=buyback-oder-aehnlich&fwp_laufzeit=0.00%2C2.00
you can change the filters on the right