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Days off

Michelleb355

Hi.

I have a bit of a work situation I need advice with. My sister is getting married just after Christmas, I work in retail so just have the 25th off and then back to work. The manager has holidays from the 24th to early January every year and it’s company policy that no other member of staff can book more than one day off during that time. Under the circumstances (I’m also maid of honor ) I went to my manger to explain the situation and he told me there’s nothing to be done only take the day of the wedding off and be back in work the following morning. The wedding is in London so this is going to be next to impossible. He also told me I can go to HR but will more than likely be told the same thing. I’m working with the company 12 years and I don’t want to leave. Has anyone any advice?

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SusieBlue

Deleted User wrote: »

I find your post hard to believe. I've worked for many employers since I started working in the 1980's - private sector and now public sector. I have never once has an employer not accept a doctors cert, or question me when I was off sick. Why would they? I don't know what business you work in or if you manage one but I sure wouldn't like to work there!

I haven't either, but then again I haven't ever failed to show up for work when I've been denied annual leave.

Dress it up however you like but OP would be taking a serious chance calling in sick & hoping her boss will accept the sick note when they know full well she should be abroad at a wedding she badly wanted to go to over those dates.

I don't understand what the hostility is about, I'm not a manager and I don't support the actions of OP's boss but its reckless and terrible advice to just say "get a sick note, be grand" when there could be serious consequences for her.

Her bosses have already proven to be unaccommodating and inflexible, and you think they'll just accept a doctors cert with no trouble for OP??

If her company won't budge she'd be far better off handing in her notice now and looking for something new, because it'll be much easier to get a job this side of Christmas than it will in January.

[Deleted User]

nthclare wrote: »

Oh if I was independently wealthy I'd apply for jobs in these places and just have a ball going for interviews and sticking their jobs up their arses.

Work for a day or two and drive the bastard's nuts....

Give the rest of the staff a good laugh...

You'd quite possibly/probably be eventually sectioned.

[Deleted User]

SusieBlue wrote: »

She isn't just missing a day, she is missing a day during a business critical period of trade which she has already been denied annual leave for.
Big difference.

There's been no suggestion that this is a critical period. Just that the staff can't be off while the manager is off.
If it were critical the manager wouldn't be off for the whole period.

The OP could be selling office supplies for all we know.

gwalk

nthclare wrote: »

Oh if I was independently wealthy I'd apply for jobs in these places and just have a ball going for interviews and sticking their jobs up their arses.

Work for a day or two and drive the bastard's nuts....

Give the rest of the staff a good laugh...

And what about the persons you'd be depriving of these oportunites for your ****s and giggles?

a few of you go for an interview, you get offered the job and the others dont, you decide to piss off after 2 days or make a horrible atmosphere for exisiitng staff by "driving the Bastard's nuts" as you say

but you would've had your fun I suppose

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

I find your post hard to believe. I've worked for many employers since I started working in the 1980's - private sector and now public sector. I have never once has an employer not accept a doctors cert, or question me when I was off sick. Why would they? I don't know what business you work in or if you manage one but I sure wouldn't like to work there!

It depends, have you ever asked for annual leave, explain how vital it was and once refused you ended up bringing in a sick cert.

I'm 100% behind the OP. Saying a doctor's cert will cover it isn't guaranteed.

nthclare

SusieBlue wrote: »

Employers aren't obliged to accept sick notes.
Sick notes are not a "get out of jail free" trump card for employees to use when their annual leave is denied.
A doctors cert is an explanation as to why OP isn't in work, but it doesn't mean her employer has to accept it.
She can still be disciplined regardless if they consider it to be an unauthorised absence. Which it would be seeing as they are aware she was at her sisters wedding during the "sickness".

And again, you are completely misrepresenting the issue at hand.
She isn't just missing a day, she is missing a day during a business critical period of trade which she has already been denied annual leave for.
Big difference.

That's what I'd call time to change career's.
Imagine working under these conditions where you're working under stone age principles and practices.

O thought working with businesses like this went out in the early 80's
Unfortunately there's still Victorian work house's alive and well in good old Ireland.

A lot of places take on extra staff in the holiday period.

Sounds like the op's managers a right bell end.

I suppose being a smart ass and well up in my rights I'd run ring's around a manager like this.

12 years on the job and putting up with this ****.

Oh if I was independently wealthy I'd apply for jobs in these places and just have a ball going for interviews and sticking their jobs up their arses.

Work for a day or two and drive the bastard's nuts....

Give the rest of the staff a good laugh...

[Deleted User]

SusieBlue wrote: »

Employers aren't obliged to accept sick notes.
Sick notes are not a "get out of jail free" trump card for employees to use when their annual leave is denied.
A doctors cert is an explanation as to why OP isn't in work, but it doesn't mean her employer has to accept it.
She can still be disciplined regardless if they consider it to be an unauthorised absence. Which it would be seeing as they are aware she was at her sisters wedding during the "sickness".

And again, you are completely misrepresenting the issue at hand.
She isn't just missing a day, she is missing a day during a business critical period of trade which she has already been denied annual leave for.
Big difference.

I find your post hard to believe. I've worked for many employers since I started working in the 1980's - private sector and now public sector. I have never once has an employer not accept a doctors cert, or question me when I was off sick. Why would they? I don't know what business you work in or if you manage one but I sure wouldn't like to work there!

SusieBlue

facehugger99 wrote: »

This may come as news to you but not showing up for work due to illness is not 'breaking your contract'.

Whether you're actually ill or not is not a decision for the OP's line manger or some jumped-up HR goon to make.

Claiming they can be dismissed for missing a day's work is alarmist nonsense - this is not the 1800's.

Employers aren't obliged to accept sick notes.
Sick notes are not a "get out of jail free" trump card for employees to use when their annual leave is denied.
A doctors cert is an explanation as to why OP isn't in work, but it doesn't mean her employer has to accept it.
She can still be disciplined regardless if they consider it to be an unauthorised absence. Which it would be seeing as they are aware she was at her sisters wedding during the "sickness".

And again, you are completely misrepresenting the issue at hand.
She isn't just missing a day, she is missing a day during a business critical period of trade which she has already been denied annual leave for.
Big difference.

the_pen_turner

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah, okay - you think the OP should commit career suicide?

yes or you could tell them that looked into it and becasue it was not the airline fault that you missed the flight that there is nothing they can do. also its not the hire cars fault becasue you must have driven over a nail etc

NSAman

As an ex-owner of a retail business two things spring to mind here.

Why is your manager able to swing every christmas off?

The company is acting very poorly towards you!

Christmas is the busiest time of the year in retail. NO manager should be getting that length of time away from work.

With 12 years of service, I would bend over backwards to assist you in your request.

Obviously, approach the owner/HR about this situation. If they refuse, it will tell you how appreciated you are and start looking around.

Family ALWAYS comes first, weddings, funerals, family issues were always more important to us than work. It creates trust between employees and owners.

[Deleted User]

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

How would a retail manager/HR get the OP a refund?

They couldn't, it would just be their way of checking you're not telling porkies. Absolutely you can tell them politely to PFO, but most people don't want to piss off their employers.

[Deleted User]

Batgurl wrote: »

“No you’re grand thanks. My refund is none of your business but cheers for the concern.”

Ah, okay - you think the OP should commit career suicide?

facehugger99

SusieBlue wrote: »

Employees don’t have grounds to claim because they broke their contract by not showing up.

This may come as news to you but not showing up for work due to illness is not 'breaking your contract'.

Whether you're actually ill or not is not a decision for the OP's line manger or some jumped-up HR goon to make.

Claiming they can be dismissed for missing a day's work is alarmist nonsense - this is not the 1800's.

SusieBlue

facehugger99 wrote: »

It wouldn't be for you or me to make that determination.

But if you think that dismissing someone for missing a day's work is a tenable position to take, well I hope you're never put in charge of such a decision, because you've likely opened up your company to a significant claim.

It’s not just missing a days work, it’s missing a days work during a business critical period of trade when her annual leave was denied.
Big, big difference.

I never said I agreed with it or supported it, I said it’s a common position for companies to take. Many companies would consider it to be gross misconduct.
Employees don’t have grounds to claim because they broke their contract by not showing up.

It’s something OP needs to consider before recklessly deciding not to turn up so lose the passive aggressiveness, it’s not warranted.

Wanderer78

splinter65 wrote:

I donâ€™t want to be either sacked warned or bollocked. Do you think that thereâ€™s some kind of WRC that comes round to the workplace and stops an employer from sacking an employee? Because thereâ€™s not.

Warnings and bollockings, big whoop-de-fcuking-doo

As others have said, 'delays' are a dreadful thing at such critical moments

Some employers seriously need to get over themselves, I'd imagine the business won't shut leading to catastrophic job losses due to one employee not turning up for a day

tobottherobot

If it were me I'd not turn up the next day. You could buy flights for the early departure, save the details in your email and afaik you can change them to a later flight with Ryanair within 24 hours for a flight that night. That way you could show HR you tried to get back but missed the flight if they began asking questions.

facehugger99

SusieBlue wrote: »

How would it be unfair if OP was dismissed, pray tell?
.

It wouldn't be for you or me to make that determination.

But if you think that dismissing someone for missing a day's work is a tenable position to take, well I hope you're never put in charge of such a decision, because you've likely opened up your company to a significant claim.

pjdarcy

Time to dust off the CV OP. If you hand in your notice with a firm offer on the table from another employer you'll be amazed at how quickly your boss will find a solution to this problem.

killanena

If your working 4/5 days a week, why not just request Saturday and Sunday your days off and Monday and whatever for your second week? Still be doing your 4/5 shifts (excluding Xmas).

I work in retail management and I find it very strange that a company will not allow its employees to request time off over the holidays. The way we do it is if you are working Xmas even and Stephens day, your off new years eve and day. And swap it around each year.

Salary Negotiator

[Deleted User] wrote: »

"That's terrible - have you got the plane ticket, lets see if we can get a refund for you."

How would a retail manager/HR get the OP a refund? All she has to say is she’ll look after it herself.

I wasn’t really being serious but back in my retail days it’s what I’d have done and the just brazened it out.

The company has to follow its own disciplinary proceedings and HR usually look for an excuse not to do anything.

splinter65

facehugger99 wrote: »

Thus opening up the employers to a claim under the unfair dismissals act.

Not sure what century your employer thinks they're working in but there are certain rights afforded to employees these days that prevent that kind of bolloxology from taking place.

Of course you can - people get sick all the time, including days on which they've been denied leave.

Yes but in the meantime you’ve been sacked. Lost your wages. After 12 years. Sign on for JSB (€203) Have to submit an unfair dismissals complaint with WRC wait for an acknowledgement of same wait for a hearing date (3 months minimum) get together all the evidence.... explain the sudden cessation of employment on your CV, last employer will be rung for a reference... get it?

splinter65

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Sacked, for missing a day! A warning and a bollocking more like.

I don’t want to be either sacked warned or bollocked. Do you think that there’s some kind of WRC that comes round to the workplace and stops an employer from sacking an employee? Because there’s not.

Batgurl

[Deleted User] wrote: »

"That's terrible - have you got the plane ticket, lets see if we can get a refund for you."

“No you’re grand thanks. My refund is none of your business but cheers for the concern.”

SusieBlue

facehugger99 wrote: »

Thus opening up the employers to a claim under the unfair dismissals act.

Not sure what century your employer thinks they're working in but there are certain rights afforded to employees these days that prevent that kind of bolloxology from taking place.

How would it be an unfair dismissal?
OP has contracted hours, OP applies for annual leave during a business critical period, Employer denies the leave as they are legally entitled to, OP doesn't show up to work.
How would it be unfair if OP was dismissed, pray tell?

I'm on OP's side here, I think its very unreasonable that she isn't being accommodated. But there is dangerous advice being given on this thread with serious consequences for her if she takes it.

[Deleted User]

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

It’d be a real shame if the OP missed her flight home from the wedding and as a result missed a days work.

Punctures always seem to happen at the worst possible time.

"That's terrible - have you got the plane ticket, lets see if we can get a refund for you."

facehugger99

SusieBlue wrote: »

Where I work, not showing up to work after being denied annual leave for the same dates would be considered gross misconduct and the employee would very likely be fired.
.

Thus opening up the employers to a claim under the unfair dismissals act.

Not sure what century your employer thinks they're working in but there are certain rights afforded to employees these days that prevent that kind of bolloxology from taking place.

SusieBlue wrote: »

You can't just call in sick when your leave doesn't get approved and expect to get away with it.

Of course you can - people get sick all the time, including days on which they've been denied leave.

Salary Negotiator

It’d be a real shame if the OP missed her flight home from the wedding and as a result missed a days work.

Punctures always seem to happen at the worst possible time.

the_pen_turner

would it be worth pointing out that you legally have to take so many days off a year and that the employer has to make sure you take them.

[Deleted User]

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Sacked, for missing a day! A warning and a bollocking more like.

Pigs may yet fly, I agree with Wanderer78 :pac:

SusieBlue

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Sacked, for missing a day! A warning and a bollocking more like.

Where I work, not showing up to work after being denied annual leave for the same dates would be considered gross misconduct and the employee would very likely be fired.
Its not something that would be tolerated. You can't just call in sick when your leave doesn't get approved and expect to get away with it.