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Smart meter opt out

howyegettinon1

after getting a letter that a smart meter will be installed in next 45 days. i want to opt out, anyone else try or looking to opt out?

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boege

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

your right. but we have the option to use cash, turn of your phone, use a vpns or script blockers

if people want smart meters thats fine, but i think we should have the option to opt out from having our individual usage being logged

you will have to adjust your daily routines to benefit from off peak tarrifs, and as most work 9 to 5 or there abouts mornings and evening will be charged at a premium. so will probably benefit shift workerks at best. the trial carried out show a 2% saving a year from using a smart meter, for the sake of 25 euro a year i would rather not have my usage tracked, take away the 5.50 you are paying anualy to have the meter install you will be saving 20 quid

There are changes coming down the tracks that will change the way we pay for energy. Think Ryanair and how they encourage people to use services in off peak times. Energy price is going to be linked to demand. Discounts will be offered for times when there is low use of the grid and you can adjust your consumption to get the best rate. But you will need to know our own consumption pattern to make these decisions.

Smart meters is a part of the governments Climate Action Plan.....and you get to control what personal information leaves your home- this includes your consumption pattern. As ESB networks don't sell electricity (in theory) they need your permission to pass it on to those that do.

howyegettinon1

Sleeper12 wrote: »

A company can't share this information with the social welfare. This has been illegal long before GDPR. However revenue can look at your bank account and all the transactions made by card. This is a more scary thing than a smart meter imo

have a look at sweeden, they have gone completely cashless so absolutely everything you purchase is tracked right down to market stalls. Add that to likes of revenue having access to your statement and your income right down to the last cent. that models throws privacy right out the window too

howyegettinon1

boege wrote: »

There are changes coming down the tracks that will change the way we pay for energy. Think Ryanair and how they encourage people to use services in off peak times. Energy price is going to be linked to demand. Discounts will be offered for times when there is low use of the grid and you can adjust your consumption to get the best rate. But you will need to know our own consumption pattern to make these decisions.

Smart meters is a part of the governments Climate Action Plan.....and you get to control what personal information leaves your home- this includes your consumption pattern. As ESB networks don't sell electricity (in theory) they need your permission to pass it on to those that do.

i get the need to understand your consumption to make the decision to avail of the discounted rates
my concern is that the data is sent over the mobile network, it isnt stored on your meter so you have no control of it or it leaving your house.
i dont see an option offered to take out the sim card if you choose not to participate(especially if a new tenant moves into a rented property where the meter has been installed by owner) or to allow you and you only to have access to the consumption pattern

i would say the only access you will have is through the service providers web/app that will be in your name and only from the time the bill goes in your name. storing it on the meter might also be a breach of GDPR as you could potentially have access to the previous tenants/owners usage data

Stoner

I can't see the reason why the OP can't opt out.
There are very good reasons to do so.

I've my own smart meter, would I like an ESB one? Maybe
They have a good idea what you are using from load profiles.

Possibly soon dryers etc will only be allowed run at night they can identify these types of loads.

Anyway I don't care about anyone knowing my usage, or cutting me off if I don't pay.

But as the old saying goes, just because I've nothing to day shouldn't mean they can get rid of free speech.

It's a reasonable request.

But I do like the idea of drug grow houses and tax skippers being caught, like everything else it will come at a cost.

Get a big battery and solar panels OP.

upupup

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

your right. but we have the option to use cash, turn of your phone, use a vpns or script blockers

if people want smart meters thats fine, but i think we should have the option to opt out from having our individual usage being logged

you will have to adjust your daily routines to benefit from off peak tarrifs, and as most work 9 to 5 or there abouts mornings and evening will be charged at a premium. so will probably benefit shift workerks at best. the trial carried out show a 2% saving a year from using a smart meter, for the sake of 25 euro a year i would rather not have my usage tracked, take away the 5.50 you are paying anualy to have the meter install you will be saving 20 quid

If you are an Electric Ireland customer and would like to opt out of receiving a Smart Meter, you can call our support team on 1850 372 372 who will take your details and pass them on to ESB Networks. Alternatively, you can call ESB Networks directly on 1800 928 123 or 698 5005.
https://www.electricireland.ie/residential/help/smart-electricity-meters/i-don-t-want-a-smart-meter-what-do-i-do

yer man!

I'm living in the Netherlands at the moment an have one of these meters. I find them fantastic, you can set it to send a signal back to the provider, either hourly, daily or weekly. It also shows up on the app on your phone so you can see what your usage is and what weeks you have been using more or less energy. Every bill I get now is a true reading bill so no more estimates which is really good in my opinion.

irelandrover

I live in the Netherlands and opted out of the smart meter. Not for privacy reasons but because of claims of inaccurate readings. A study was done by a university over here and until it is proven wrong I'd rather not take the chance.

https://www.utwente.nl/en/news/2017/3/313543/electronic-energy-meters-false-readings-almost-six-times-higher-than-actual-energy-consumption

LeBash

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

privacy for one, i dont need providers monitoring and logging my usage and as a result my household habits(i cant find the detaila but i think the meter is polled every couple of minutes), after that i doubt that this data will be protected.
two way communication, if you have a dispute with provider you can have your electricity shut of remotely. we will also be footing the bill for this for the next 20 years for the install of these meters
i also do not see this resulting in any cost saving as they claim it will

I've seen a manufacturers site for producing smart meters in Germany. The original spec was for 7 levels of encryption which then went to 13. I think all bank transactions are 5. Meter development and production has to be done underground in Germany at least.

The company got into smart metering 10 years ago estimating a cost of 11 million euro to start R&D/Production line and with all the changes on security and renovation to meet the standards it has been over 30 million euro.

Most of our meters come from Slovakia as far as I know and I'm not sure if the standards were the same but there is no way they would be allowed to tender for what is the biggest market in the EU if they didnt meet the same standards.

ted1

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

your right. but we have the option to use cash, turn of your phone, use a vpns or script blockers

if people want smart meters thats fine, but i think we should have the option to opt out from having our individual usage being logged

you will have to adjust your daily routines to benefit from off peak tarrifs, and as most work 9 to 5 or there abouts mornings and evening will be charged at a premium. so will probably benefit shift workerks at best. the trial carried out show a 2% saving a year from using a smart meter, for the sake of 25 euro a year i would rather not have my usage tracked, take away the 5.50 you are paying anualy to have the meter install you will be saving 20 quid

You can get the meter and opt off interval logging.

Reati

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

how that data will be used in future isnt in your hands, yes it might be protected by GDPR for now but laws can change

There has to be a Goodwins law still thing for GDPR?

listermint

Stoner wrote: »

I can't see the reason why the OP can't opt out.
There are very good reasons to do so.

I've my own smart meter, would I like an ESB one? Maybe
They have a good idea what you are using from load profiles.

Possibly soon dryers etc will only be allowed run at night they can identify these types of loads.

Anyway I don't care about anyone knowing my usage, or cutting me off if I don't pay.

But as the old saying goes, just because I've nothing to day shouldn't mean they can get rid of free speech.

It's a reasonable request.

But I do like the idea of drug grow houses and tax skippers being caught, like everything else it will come at a cost.

Get a big battery and solar panels OP.

Nah

Sorry my bills shouldn't be higher to cover the baseless claims of the OP where they've to send someone to physically read the meter every few weeks

He has no case. None

coylemj

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

alright, take johny sitting on the dole in a council house, which he occupies solely. if he claims not to be working bit his kettle goes off at 7am and the electricity usage is non existentant untill he return from work at 7pm sticks on the oven telly and kettle again. that can be used to flag him for someone claiming and working

whether what he is doing is legal or not, he is being monitored and that data is being logged and can be analysed for such purposes

This is similar to the conspiracy theories that did the rounds when the Gardai broke away from the Govt. computer centre in Kilmainham in the early 1980s and installed their own system in the Phoenix Park.

The best (i.e. most far-fetched) story was the Sunday World article which speculated that the 'new' system would allow Gardai to monitor the number of milk bottles outside houses (reminder: we're talking the 1980s here) and this would allow them to track the suspicious movement of people. Meaning that if you invited your aunt and a cousin to stay the weekend and ordered an extra bottle of milk from the Premier Dairies milkman, the Gardai would spot the extra bottle and you'd be 'on the computer'.

Tin hat stuff or what?

Ficheall

listermint wrote: »

Sorry my bills shouldn't be higher to cover the baseless claims of the OP where they've to send someone to physically read the meter every few weeks

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm looking forward to the installation of my smart meter and the eventual roll out of different tariffs for different times of the day. The money saved with lower off peak tariffs will more than pay for the smart meter.

Any chance ye'd be willing to share your most recent bills and we can come back in a year and see how much cheaper your bills have gotten?

Gormal

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

after getting a letter that a smart meter will be installed in next 45 days. i want to opt out, anyone else try or looking to opt out?

We opted out earlier in the year, they are not mandatory. All the info is here

[Deleted User]

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

have a look at sweeden, they have gone completely cashless so absolutely everything you purchase is tracked right down to market stalls. Add that to likes of revenue having access to your statement and your income right down to the last cent. that models throws privacy right out the window too

There is a reason I live & keep my business interests in Ireland. I don't evade taxes but I do like my privacy. Young people don't realise what they are giving away for free while running head first into a cashless society

Reati

Sleeper12 wrote: »

There is a reason I live & keep my business interests in Ireland. I don't evade taxes but I do like my privacy. Young people don't realise what they are giving away for free while running head first into a cashless society

Why though? Whats the concern you have?

boege

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

i get the need to understand your consumption to make the decision to avail of the discounted rates
my concern is that the data is sent over the mobile network, it isnt stored on your meter so you have no control of it or it leaving your house.
i dont see an option offered to take out the sim card if you choose not to participate(especially if a new tenant moves into a rented property where the meter has been installed by owner) or to allow you and you only to have access to the consumption pattern

i would say the only access you will have is through the service providers web/app that will be in your name and only from the time the bill goes in your name. storing it on the meter might also be a breach of GDPR as you could potentially have access to the previous tenants/owners usage data

You do have control, the data cannot be shared without your permission.

[Deleted User]

Reati wrote:

Why though? Whats the concern you have?

I have no issues with a smart meter but that's light years away from revenue knowing how many coffees you buy and where you buy them. There are several threads on the public social card or whatever its called. People afraid of big brother yet the same people tap their card dozens of times per day leaving a much bigger footprint & think nothing of it. Every time you check Facebook or twitter you leave a footprint of where you are.

Reati

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I have no issues with a smart meter but that's light years away from revenue knowing how many coffees you buy and where you buy them. There are several threads on the public social card or whatever its called. People afraid of big brother yet the same people tap their card dozens of times per day leaving a much bigger footprint & think nothing of it. Every time you check Facebook or twitter you leave a footprint of where you are.

Let’s be honest though. Revenue don’t give a **** about how many coffees you have a day and where you buy them if you aren’t doing something you shouldn’t be regards tax evading etc.

That shouldn’t be conflated with Facebook and it’s shady uses of locations services and other datapoints or the PSC implimentation issues.

CelticRambler

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

alright, take johny sitting on the dole in a council house, which he occupies solely. if he claims not to be working bit his kettle goes off at 7am and the electricity usage is non existentant untill he return from work at 7pm sticks on the oven telly and kettle again. that can be used to flag him for someone claiming and working

How does the dole office tell the difference between a kettle kilowatt and a fridge kilowatt? :rolleyes:

Ficheall wrote: »

Any chance ye'd be willing to share your most recent bills and we can come back in a year and see how much cheaper your bills have gotten?

I'm in France, so my bills wouldn't be particularly relevant, but I've saved about 400€ since I (willingly) let the man in to install a smart meter. Why? Because just seeing the figures on chart alerts me to "exceptional usage" and I can take action straight away instead of waiting for my end-of-year bill.

It's also great to be able to log into my own meter when I'm working away and see whether or not there's a trickle of watts being used by the fridge, the phone/router, the stereo, etc. Living in an area prone to lightning strikes that trip the main fuse, it's a great way to know that I need to send someone 'round to flick the switch before my freezer defrosts.

Reati

CelticRambler wrote: »

How does the dole office tell the difference between a kettle kilowatt and a fridge kilowatt? :rolleyes

It’s amazing the logic of some people that his worry in this is someone commiting welfare fraud might get caught out.

howyegettinon1

boege wrote: »

You do have control, the data cannot be shared without your permission.

I would have control if i had access to the sim, the ability to wipe the stored data. what we do have now is trust in a third party to do what they say. there is a difference between the two

howyegettinon1

CelticRambler wrote: »

How does the dole office tell the difference between a kettle kilowatt and a fridge kilowatt? :rolleyes:

I'm in France, so my bills wouldn't be particularly relevant, but I've saved about 400€ since I (willingly) let the man in to install a smart meter. Why? Because just seeing the figures on chart alerts me to "exceptional usage" and I can take action straight away instead of waiting for my end-of-year bill.

It's also great to be able to log into my own meter when I'm working away and see whether or not there's a trickle of watts being used by the fridge, the phone/router, the stereo, etc. Living in an area prone to lightning strikes that trip the main fuse, it's a great way to know that I need to send someone 'round to flick the switch before my freezer defrosts.

i am not against the idea of monitoring your usage as long as you have full control of the data

you get annual bills? we can submit our readings and get bills every two months, which means you can get on top off excess usage sooner i suppose

it is nice to know when your electricity goes out, i already have this in place and get alerted when it goes down and comes back up

howyegettinon1

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I have no issues with a smart meter but that's light years away from revenue knowing how many coffees you buy and where you buy them. There are several threads on the public social card or whatever its called. People afraid of big brother yet the same people tap their card dozens of times per day leaving a much bigger footprint & think nothing of it. Every time you check Facebook or twitter you leave a footprint of where you are.

i think overall we are giving up our privacy inch by inch and we are doing it so willingly and metering your home is a small part of that. you leave a footprint if you interact with the internet full stop, each site you visit scripts are ran to third party sites. facebook, google and amazon are notorious for collecting this data and if you run ublock you can see how many domains are poling each site you visit. you do not need to log into anything to identify yourself on the internet already.
tapping your card everywhere, purchasing online leaves a huge footprint as you said
then if you look at facial recognition and social credits in china, which is leaking over to us slowly(london has already trialed facial recognition systems on public streets) silicon valley is now introducing social credit system. police in america are granted access to your doorbell cameras to monitor your street. the list is huge and i think we should take privacy a bit more seriously rather than brushing everything under the tinfoil hat carpet

CelticRambler

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

you get annual bills? we can submit our readings and get bills every two months, which means you can get on top off excess usage sooner i suppose

I (used to) get a bill based on estimated annual consumption, paid by DD over 10 months, and then a top-up or rebate in the 11th month depending on a formal reading. The company was quite happy for me to send them periodic DIY readings, but they still wanted their guy to see it for himself at least once a year.

But even a two-monthly reading gives you no idea of how/when/why you've used way more electricity than you think you should. Was it all in one day? Was it a steady drain? Was the last reading erroneously low? Now I have a day-by-day display (I could authorise them to provide me with a 30-minute read-out, but that'd just clog up my own brain with too much data :pac: ) and if there's a spike, I've a reasonable chance of remembering what was plugged in and switched on that day, and decide for myself what to do about it.

For the paranoics amongst you: here's my consumption over the last month. Can you tell when I was at home and/or what I was doing and/or what appliances we on/off/standing-by?

Bronco Bullfrog

Atticus Beautiful Rocket wrote: »

Of course, the savings are made by the customer not the energy company :rolleyes:

Apparently that is not the case. Comparing what has happened in UK.
Every household, whether they want a smart meter or not, is being forced to fork out £420 to help fund the £11billion smart meter project. The cash is being pickpocketed from consumer's energy bills – rising up to 10 per cent this year to an average £1,150.
With the cost per household of the project estimated at £420, it will take decades for smart meters to provide savings to households.
Gordon Hughes is professor of economics at the University of Edinburgh and a former senior adviser on energy and environmental policy at the World Bank.
He says: 'The introduction of the smart meter is a dog's breakfast. At best it is misconceived and an astonishingly expensive project. For those claiming it will bring major savings, I say they need to grow up. Click the link:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-4846700/Smart-meters-cost-household-420.html
Will it be any different here in Ireland? Also inept installations, increased bills and the technology not working properly:-
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49680943

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/28/smart-meters-bad-installations-customers-in-debt-in-dark

Supernintento Chalmers

Sleeper12 wrote: »

A company can't share this information with the social welfare. This has been illegal long before GDPR. However revenue can look at your bank account and all the transactions made by card. This is a more scary thing than a smart meter imo

Are you sure? They can share it with the Guards.

Plus, under GDPR, you can opt for your supplier to not store the usage data, not that it matters.
ESB Networks will store it, you prob can't opt out from that.

A smart meter can only benefit a user.
A wider range of tariffs than Night/Day will probably be available.
It currently costs, I think, over €200 to switch to a Day/Night meter, with a Smart Meter I'd imagine it'd be free.

The only people who should be worried are meter tamperers and drug cultivators and the latter can prob already be detected, from unusually high monthly usage.

stickman1019

Anybody have any details on the models of these meters? Or have one installed that they could take a photo of?

Will these meters read both both true and displacement power factors ?

Can anybody confirm ?

Hotblack Desiato

Gormal wrote: »

We opted out earlier in the year, they are not mandatory. All the info is here

Wow. That site is loony.

hawthorne

The smart meter is in theory a good idea.
In reality it is a waste of resources and not environmental friendly at all.

Tests done confirmed that the vast majority of consumers did not save a single penny. The most it was about 3%- which was offset with the long term charges of the installations.
The meter itself has a limited lifespan. While an analogue meter easily works fine over 50 years, the smart meter needs to be replaced every 7 years or so. The smart reading won't be that smart at all after that time- in fact the reading is a lot of phantasy. Which costs you at lot.
Ever looked inside one of those meters? Full of electronic components- which need to be produced. An analogue meter is a very simple thing easily made. What will happen with the meter when it gets replaced? Will it be recycled? Bet it will- like the over 80% of all EU produced electronic junk ends in Ghana or some other country. The damage the production causes are considerable as well.
The job of the meter reader is gone- like so many other jobs simply vanish. We are told the jobs will be created somewhere else- but they won't. Look around you. It happens all over the place.
I have no problem with OP if he wishes to opt out. It is a wise move.