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Smart meter opt out

howyegettinon1

after getting a letter that a smart meter will be installed in next 45 days. i want to opt out, anyone else try or looking to opt out?

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Reati

CelticRambler wrote: »

How does the dole office tell the difference between a kettle kilowatt and a fridge kilowatt? :rolleyes

It’s amazing the logic of some people that his worry in this is someone commiting welfare fraud might get caught out.

CelticRambler

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

alright, take johny sitting on the dole in a council house, which he occupies solely. if he claims not to be working bit his kettle goes off at 7am and the electricity usage is non existentant untill he return from work at 7pm sticks on the oven telly and kettle again. that can be used to flag him for someone claiming and working

How does the dole office tell the difference between a kettle kilowatt and a fridge kilowatt? :rolleyes:

Ficheall wrote: »

Any chance ye'd be willing to share your most recent bills and we can come back in a year and see how much cheaper your bills have gotten?

I'm in France, so my bills wouldn't be particularly relevant, but I've saved about 400€ since I (willingly) let the man in to install a smart meter. Why? Because just seeing the figures on chart alerts me to "exceptional usage" and I can take action straight away instead of waiting for my end-of-year bill.

It's also great to be able to log into my own meter when I'm working away and see whether or not there's a trickle of watts being used by the fridge, the phone/router, the stereo, etc. Living in an area prone to lightning strikes that trip the main fuse, it's a great way to know that I need to send someone 'round to flick the switch before my freezer defrosts.

Reati

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I have no issues with a smart meter but that's light years away from revenue knowing how many coffees you buy and where you buy them. There are several threads on the public social card or whatever its called. People afraid of big brother yet the same people tap their card dozens of times per day leaving a much bigger footprint & think nothing of it. Every time you check Facebook or twitter you leave a footprint of where you are.

Let’s be honest though. Revenue don’t give a **** about how many coffees you have a day and where you buy them if you aren’t doing something you shouldn’t be regards tax evading etc.

That shouldn’t be conflated with Facebook and it’s shady uses of locations services and other datapoints or the PSC implimentation issues.

[Deleted User]

Reati wrote:

Why though? Whats the concern you have?

I have no issues with a smart meter but that's light years away from revenue knowing how many coffees you buy and where you buy them. There are several threads on the public social card or whatever its called. People afraid of big brother yet the same people tap their card dozens of times per day leaving a much bigger footprint & think nothing of it. Every time you check Facebook or twitter you leave a footprint of where you are.

boege

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

i get the need to understand your consumption to make the decision to avail of the discounted rates
my concern is that the data is sent over the mobile network, it isnt stored on your meter so you have no control of it or it leaving your house.
i dont see an option offered to take out the sim card if you choose not to participate(especially if a new tenant moves into a rented property where the meter has been installed by owner) or to allow you and you only to have access to the consumption pattern

i would say the only access you will have is through the service providers web/app that will be in your name and only from the time the bill goes in your name. storing it on the meter might also be a breach of GDPR as you could potentially have access to the previous tenants/owners usage data

You do have control, the data cannot be shared without your permission.

Reati

Sleeper12 wrote: »

There is a reason I live & keep my business interests in Ireland. I don't evade taxes but I do like my privacy. Young people don't realise what they are giving away for free while running head first into a cashless society

Why though? Whats the concern you have?

[Deleted User]

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

have a look at sweeden, they have gone completely cashless so absolutely everything you purchase is tracked right down to market stalls. Add that to likes of revenue having access to your statement and your income right down to the last cent. that models throws privacy right out the window too

There is a reason I live & keep my business interests in Ireland. I don't evade taxes but I do like my privacy. Young people don't realise what they are giving away for free while running head first into a cashless society

Gormal

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

after getting a letter that a smart meter will be installed in next 45 days. i want to opt out, anyone else try or looking to opt out?

We opted out earlier in the year, they are not mandatory. All the info is here

Ficheall

listermint wrote: »

Sorry my bills shouldn't be higher to cover the baseless claims of the OP where they've to send someone to physically read the meter every few weeks

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm looking forward to the installation of my smart meter and the eventual roll out of different tariffs for different times of the day. The money saved with lower off peak tariffs will more than pay for the smart meter.

Any chance ye'd be willing to share your most recent bills and we can come back in a year and see how much cheaper your bills have gotten?

coylemj

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

alright, take johny sitting on the dole in a council house, which he occupies solely. if he claims not to be working bit his kettle goes off at 7am and the electricity usage is non existentant untill he return from work at 7pm sticks on the oven telly and kettle again. that can be used to flag him for someone claiming and working

whether what he is doing is legal or not, he is being monitored and that data is being logged and can be analysed for such purposes

This is similar to the conspiracy theories that did the rounds when the Gardai broke away from the Govt. computer centre in Kilmainham in the early 1980s and installed their own system in the Phoenix Park.

The best (i.e. most far-fetched) story was the Sunday World article which speculated that the 'new' system would allow Gardai to monitor the number of milk bottles outside houses (reminder: we're talking the 1980s here) and this would allow them to track the suspicious movement of people. Meaning that if you invited your aunt and a cousin to stay the weekend and ordered an extra bottle of milk from the Premier Dairies milkman, the Gardai would spot the extra bottle and you'd be 'on the computer'.

Tin hat stuff or what?

listermint

Stoner wrote: »

I can't see the reason why the OP can't opt out.
There are very good reasons to do so.

I've my own smart meter, would I like an ESB one? Maybe
They have a good idea what you are using from load profiles.

Possibly soon dryers etc will only be allowed run at night they can identify these types of loads.

Anyway I don't care about anyone knowing my usage, or cutting me off if I don't pay.

But as the old saying goes, just because I've nothing to day shouldn't mean they can get rid of free speech.

It's a reasonable request.

But I do like the idea of drug grow houses and tax skippers being caught, like everything else it will come at a cost.

Get a big battery and solar panels OP.

Nah

Sorry my bills shouldn't be higher to cover the baseless claims of the OP where they've to send someone to physically read the meter every few weeks

He has no case. None

Reati

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

how that data will be used in future isnt in your hands, yes it might be protected by GDPR for now but laws can change

There has to be a Goodwins law still thing for GDPR?

ted1

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

your right. but we have the option to use cash, turn of your phone, use a vpns or script blockers

if people want smart meters thats fine, but i think we should have the option to opt out from having our individual usage being logged

you will have to adjust your daily routines to benefit from off peak tarrifs, and as most work 9 to 5 or there abouts mornings and evening will be charged at a premium. so will probably benefit shift workerks at best. the trial carried out show a 2% saving a year from using a smart meter, for the sake of 25 euro a year i would rather not have my usage tracked, take away the 5.50 you are paying anualy to have the meter install you will be saving 20 quid

You can get the meter and opt off interval logging.

LeBash

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

privacy for one, i dont need providers monitoring and logging my usage and as a result my household habits(i cant find the detaila but i think the meter is polled every couple of minutes), after that i doubt that this data will be protected.
two way communication, if you have a dispute with provider you can have your electricity shut of remotely. we will also be footing the bill for this for the next 20 years for the install of these meters
i also do not see this resulting in any cost saving as they claim it will

I've seen a manufacturers site for producing smart meters in Germany. The original spec was for 7 levels of encryption which then went to 13. I think all bank transactions are 5. Meter development and production has to be done underground in Germany at least.

The company got into smart metering 10 years ago estimating a cost of 11 million euro to start R&D/Production line and with all the changes on security and renovation to meet the standards it has been over 30 million euro.

Most of our meters come from Slovakia as far as I know and I'm not sure if the standards were the same but there is no way they would be allowed to tender for what is the biggest market in the EU if they didnt meet the same standards.

irelandrover

I live in the Netherlands and opted out of the smart meter. Not for privacy reasons but because of claims of inaccurate readings. A study was done by a university over here and until it is proven wrong I'd rather not take the chance.

https://www.utwente.nl/en/news/2017/3/313543/electronic-energy-meters-false-readings-almost-six-times-higher-than-actual-energy-consumption

yer man!

I'm living in the Netherlands at the moment an have one of these meters. I find them fantastic, you can set it to send a signal back to the provider, either hourly, daily or weekly. It also shows up on the app on your phone so you can see what your usage is and what weeks you have been using more or less energy. Every bill I get now is a true reading bill so no more estimates which is really good in my opinion.

upupup

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

your right. but we have the option to use cash, turn of your phone, use a vpns or script blockers

if people want smart meters thats fine, but i think we should have the option to opt out from having our individual usage being logged

you will have to adjust your daily routines to benefit from off peak tarrifs, and as most work 9 to 5 or there abouts mornings and evening will be charged at a premium. so will probably benefit shift workerks at best. the trial carried out show a 2% saving a year from using a smart meter, for the sake of 25 euro a year i would rather not have my usage tracked, take away the 5.50 you are paying anualy to have the meter install you will be saving 20 quid

If you are an Electric Ireland customer and would like to opt out of receiving a Smart Meter, you can call our support team on 1850 372 372 who will take your details and pass them on to ESB Networks. Alternatively, you can call ESB Networks directly on 1800 928 123 or 698 5005.
https://www.electricireland.ie/residential/help/smart-electricity-meters/i-don-t-want-a-smart-meter-what-do-i-do

Stoner

I can't see the reason why the OP can't opt out.
There are very good reasons to do so.

I've my own smart meter, would I like an ESB one? Maybe
They have a good idea what you are using from load profiles.

Possibly soon dryers etc will only be allowed run at night they can identify these types of loads.

Anyway I don't care about anyone knowing my usage, or cutting me off if I don't pay.

But as the old saying goes, just because I've nothing to day shouldn't mean they can get rid of free speech.

It's a reasonable request.

But I do like the idea of drug grow houses and tax skippers being caught, like everything else it will come at a cost.

Get a big battery and solar panels OP.

howyegettinon1

boege wrote: »

There are changes coming down the tracks that will change the way we pay for energy. Think Ryanair and how they encourage people to use services in off peak times. Energy price is going to be linked to demand. Discounts will be offered for times when there is low use of the grid and you can adjust your consumption to get the best rate. But you will need to know our own consumption pattern to make these decisions.

Smart meters is a part of the governments Climate Action Plan.....and you get to control what personal information leaves your home- this includes your consumption pattern. As ESB networks don't sell electricity (in theory) they need your permission to pass it on to those that do.

i get the need to understand your consumption to make the decision to avail of the discounted rates
my concern is that the data is sent over the mobile network, it isnt stored on your meter so you have no control of it or it leaving your house.
i dont see an option offered to take out the sim card if you choose not to participate(especially if a new tenant moves into a rented property where the meter has been installed by owner) or to allow you and you only to have access to the consumption pattern

i would say the only access you will have is through the service providers web/app that will be in your name and only from the time the bill goes in your name. storing it on the meter might also be a breach of GDPR as you could potentially have access to the previous tenants/owners usage data

howyegettinon1

Sleeper12 wrote: »

A company can't share this information with the social welfare. This has been illegal long before GDPR. However revenue can look at your bank account and all the transactions made by card. This is a more scary thing than a smart meter imo

have a look at sweeden, they have gone completely cashless so absolutely everything you purchase is tracked right down to market stalls. Add that to likes of revenue having access to your statement and your income right down to the last cent. that models throws privacy right out the window too

boege

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

your right. but we have the option to use cash, turn of your phone, use a vpns or script blockers

if people want smart meters thats fine, but i think we should have the option to opt out from having our individual usage being logged

you will have to adjust your daily routines to benefit from off peak tarrifs, and as most work 9 to 5 or there abouts mornings and evening will be charged at a premium. so will probably benefit shift workerks at best. the trial carried out show a 2% saving a year from using a smart meter, for the sake of 25 euro a year i would rather not have my usage tracked, take away the 5.50 you are paying anualy to have the meter install you will be saving 20 quid

There are changes coming down the tracks that will change the way we pay for energy. Think Ryanair and how they encourage people to use services in off peak times. Energy price is going to be linked to demand. Discounts will be offered for times when there is low use of the grid and you can adjust your consumption to get the best rate. But you will need to know our own consumption pattern to make these decisions.

Smart meters is a part of the governments Climate Action Plan.....and you get to control what personal information leaves your home- this includes your consumption pattern. As ESB networks don't sell electricity (in theory) they need your permission to pass it on to those that do.

howyegettinon1

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

Do you actually believe this nonsense?

your usage will be tracked by the minute so you can benefit from the new tariffs that will be introduced.
that will be monitored and stored somewhere
how that data will be used in future isnt in your hands, yes it might be protected by GDPR for now but laws can change

i was providing an example of how the data collected can be used against you and how it can be used to invade your privacy

howyegettinon1

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Also stop using a cell phone. This tracks OPs every movement 24/7. Then there the old credit or debit card. This leaves a trail of where you have been & what you have spent your money on right down to how many cups of coffee you buy.

I'm looking forward to the installation of my smart meter and the eventual roll out of different tariffs for different times of the day. The money saved with lower off peak tariffs will more than pay for the smart meter.

your right. but we have the option to use cash, turn of your phone, use a vpns or script blockers

if people want smart meters thats fine, but i think we should have the option to opt out from having our individual usage being logged

you will have to adjust your daily routines to benefit from off peak tarrifs, and as most work 9 to 5 or there abouts mornings and evening will be charged at a premium. so will probably benefit shift workerks at best. the trial carried out show a 2% saving a year from using a smart meter, for the sake of 25 euro a year i would rather not have my usage tracked, take away the 5.50 you are paying anualy to have the meter install you will be saving 20 quid

[Deleted User]

howyegettinon1 wrote:

whether what he is doing is legal or not, he is being monitored and that data is being logged and can be analysed for such purposes

A company can't share this information with the social welfare. This has been illegal long before GDPR. However revenue can look at your bank account and all the transactions made by card. This is a more scary thing than a smart meter imo

howyegettinon1

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It doesn't cost the last in the office anything to send someone out

fuel and time are free now? never been cut off but there also be a question of access to the property/meter? not sure if you get cut off at the pole or at the meter it?

Salary Negotiator

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

alright, take johny sitting on the dole in a council house, which he occupies solely. if he claims not to be working bit his kettle goes off at 7am and the electricity usage is non existentant untill he return from work at 7pm sticks on the oven telly and kettle again. that can be used to flag him for someone claiming and working

whether what he is doing is legal or not, he is being monitored and that data is being logged and can be analysed for such purposes

Do you actually believe this nonsense?

MrMusician18

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

yeah a half days job vs a click from an office

It doesn't cost the last in the office anything to send someone out

[Deleted User]

listermint wrote:

You need to get off Facebook. Like asap shut your account down . Leave it off.

Also stop using a cell phone. This tracks OPs every movement 24/7. Then there the old credit or debit card. This leaves a trail of where you have been & what you have spent your money on right down to how many cups of coffee you buy.

I'm looking forward to the installation of my smart meter and the eventual roll out of different tariffs for different times of the day. The money saved with lower off peak tariffs will more than pay for the smart meter.

howyegettinon1

colm_mcm wrote: »

Now you’re talking. So where’s the invasion of privacy?

alright, take johny sitting on the dole in a council house, which he occupies solely. if he claims not to be working bit his kettle goes off at 7am and the electricity usage is non existentant untill he return from work at 7pm sticks on the oven telly and kettle again. that can be used to flag him for someone claiming and working

whether what he is doing is legal or not, he is being monitored and that data is being logged and can be analysed for such purposes

colm_mcm

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

what ya think were in the 60s? where ya need to pay for a room and a pair of eyes to do that?

Now you’re talking. So where’s the invasion of privacy?