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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

seligehgit

Discussion of all matters relating to this contentious subject is welcome and the potential implications of same.This thread is solely for this purpose.

There appears to be a perception that the moderators are attempting to shut down discussion of this topic and direct same off to a low traffic stickied thread.Nothing could be further from the truth.Our sole motive was to confine discussion to a single thread and prevent cross thread posting which was adversely affecting the enjoyment of fellow posters.

Can we please keep posts civil and constructive in nature.

The Changes in the GAA-super thread is now for discussion of all other suggested reforms not relating to Dublin GAA.

Extra Mod Warning:
Right, a separate warning to both sides in this debate:
Firstly, any more mentioning of "financial doping" or any intimation that rules have been broken by Dublin or that Dublin have cheated are banned from now on. You can debate the issue of the funding that Dublin have received without resorting to that. There is zero evidence of it and posting about it will be considered trolling from here on in.

Secondly, this topic is, like it or not, a big talking point in gaelic football at the moment. You are more than welcome to argue your point, but posting in this thread to simply mock those on the other side or complaining about the topic is known as thread spoiling and is specifically banned in the charter (see point 8 here). No one is forcing you to click on this thread and no one is forcing you to post in it. If you don't like the topic, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

This thread is here so that all the discussion is in one place and it won't filter into other threads. This makes it easier to ignore for posters who don't really want to be involved in it. As a result, we haven't really been moderating it as severely as other threads. However, a number of posts recently from both sides are sailing too close to the wind and getting borderline personal. So please take a minute before you hit submit to ensure that your post won't fall foul of the rules. We'll have no hesitation in issuing cards and/or threadbans to posters who fail to heed this warning.

Please report any posts that you feel break the rules.

Any questions, please feel free to PM the mods.

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Strumms

TrueGael wrote: »

Keep pretending that Fingal, DLR, South Dublin don't exist and the City Council, all separate administrations...........

:pac: stay off the sauce, it’s helping you grab at straws but not reality I’m afraid, entertainment never the less.

odyssey06

TrueGael wrote: »

Keep pretending that Fingal, DLR, South Dublin don't exist and the City Council, all separate administrations...........

They dont exist in the sense if you ask someone what county they are from or anything to do with sporting allegiance. I think it matters for potholes and property tax but we arent talking about them.

I presume you therefore want to align GAA teams with local council boundaries?
Including Cork, Galway and N Ireland?
So what happens if a government create more municipal councils or merge county councils eg Waterford, Limerick?

What happens if Dublin votes for a single elected mayor? We get to keep single team?
I predict a landslide yes!

Bonniedog

TrueGael wrote: »

Keep pretending that Fingal, DLR, South Dublin don't exist and the City Council, all separate administrations...........

So everyone else is allowed their tradition but Dubs are not?

Well, I'm with strumms on this one.

What's next?

We have to reconsign all the great Dublin writers, musicians, athletes, actors, revolutionaries, and so on to some other place just to make them feel better?

The Lost Sheep

Strumms wrote: »

Because for over a hundred years, GAA fans in DUBLIN, support DUBLIN. The county and city they love, grew up in. I’m a DUBLIN person, I relate to, love and identify with the county of DUBLIN, the team of DUBLIN, in its entirety, that blue shirt, every player who pulled it on, hurling, football, camogie, senior, under age in successful times, in lean times and otherwise. I see the Liffey as a river not the mark of division that some would make it. There is no Dublin North or South GAA teams we support DUBLIN..

So no split, no division, that won’t be allowed to happen. Roll on the sprint for six, fûck the begrudgers and win in style...

You havent said how it would destroy the association/sports within the county though. If it was to happen it wouldnt affect your relationship with Dublin. You would still be supporting Dublin.

Bonniedog

odyssey06 wrote: »

I presume you therefore want to align GAA teams with local council boundaries?
Including Cork, Galway and N Ireland?

Fermanagh/Omagh will be playing Derry/Strabane in the Ulster final after knocking out Craigavon and Newry/Armagh

Strumms

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You havent said how it would destroy the association/sports within the county though. If it was to happen it wouldnt affect your relationship with Dublin. You would still be supporting Dublin.

I’m still supporting the county of DUBLIN, just the whole county

[Deleted User]

blanch152 wrote: »

What a load of rubbish.

Splitting Brazil doesn't make the World Cup more fair for the less successful teams, neither does splitting Dublin.

I have put forward quite a number of suggestions to actually level the playing-field, but because it isn't about nobbling one team, you aren't interested.

Your suggestions are terrible. They try to draw some absurd false equivalence between Dublin and Kerry.

Dublin's recent successes are based off a number of factors but the chief ones are unfair and not replicable in any other county- again, these include financial doping, home advantage and massive population. Kerry, or any other county, don't have anything even close to these advantages.

It's not about "nobbling Dublin", it's about leveling the playing field- that Dublin need to be split do this now because of the financial doping over the last 15 years (combined with the other advantages) is just a necessary step, it's nothing to do with animosity towards Dublin.

And don't forget- you would still have a team to support. Teams and players from Dublin (more teams and players in fact) will get to challenge at the highest level and the Dublin subdivision teams would still be in the higher end in terms of population.

dunnerc wrote: »

Galway have 8 times the population of Leitrim, , are you not concerned that this is not a level playing field ? Will splitting Dublin help Leitrim , Tipp , Waterford etc ? This calling for Dublin to be split is nonsense it would destroy GAA in the County , and would see the " inter-county game die "

It would help them first of all by ensuring the game survives- if the Dublin winning streak continues, which it will, no-one will care about the All-Ireland football championship in 10 years.

Again it's not just population (although Dublin's is such a huge statistical outlier that it is grounds for a two way split), but also the other advantages e.g funding discrepancy which massively favour Dublin.

Anyway as the saying goes "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good"- splitting Dublin is intrinsically good, on its own merits and as such should be undertaken, even if other steps need to be taken later to deal with other issues affecting Gaelic Football.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

I've no problem acknowledging that Mayo's population is an advantage over Leitrim.

I'm just glad that Dubs are ackowledging that population is an advantage. A lot of the time people try to claim it isn't.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

In fairness to Connacht, three of the five counties there have a great chance of winning a provincial title. Roscommon have won quite a few. It's the other two counties who don't win anything.

doc_17

Dublin won’t be split geographically. But they should be spilt from CP and moved back to PP for league and championship. If they don’t like it let them build a ground of their own and service it like every county. Except Cork. They can’t do anything right it would seem.

omega man

doc_17 wrote: »

Dublin won’t be split geographically. But they should be spilt from CP and moved back to PP for league and championship. If they don’t like it let them build a ground of their own and service it like every county. Except Cork. They can’t do anything right it would seem.

You state this like it’s completely a dublin choice?
This wouldn’t really be a problem for dublin but it would be a financial and logistical headache for the GAA.

Strumms

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

I've no problem acknowledging that Mayo's population is an advantage over Leitrim.

I'm just glad that Dubs are ackowledging that population is an advantage. A lot of the time people try to claim it isn't.

Advantage is natural in sport, that’s how we have winners and losers. In golf, football, basketball.

Some players and teams have better coaches, better ways of getting to games - private jet where another team takes the bus, more experienced and accomplished staff and training facilities, the resources to have better hotels... that’s life... my neighbor is off to Westport for five days, our other neighbor is off to Florida. Unfair ? Nope ! Neighbor #1 didnt their life in order that they could afford Florida, #2 DID...thems the breaks...

If Kerry turn around and win five in a row ? Great and well done...

dunnerc

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

How would splitting Dublin destroy GAA in the county or see inter county game die?

Because Dublin is one . The people of Dublin will never support or accept a split , To win a Leinster or All Ireland title with Dublin diluted is not worth winning and quite frankly would be the end of the inter county game .

dunnerc

TrueGael wrote: »

Keep pretending that Fingal, DLR, South Dublin don't exist and the City Council, all separate administrations...........

Please stop talking nonsense :rolleyes:

Bonniedog

Now doc, if you have been following this, you will know that playing league in Croke Park has nothing to do with DCB or the teams. Hurlers got out first chance. Best thing Gilroy did.

But overall, I would agree with Dublin playing championship games according to the draw. Again, that is not in gift of DCB. It is something that was decided by Leinster in relation to SFC, and by Congress in regard to the "Croke Park game" in the 8s.

It is up to LC and Congress to make these things happen. Dublin wont be throwing a strop. As mainly hurling person, I can tell you that majority of our championship games have been away games at all grades. Going back 30 years or more.

gormdubhgorm

Floppybits wrote: »

It is a hard one, on one hand if players did go to other counties it would strengthen but would the players in that county accept it? Would the population of the county accept it? Then would the player that is going to play accept it?

You could also see the outside player being blamed when things go wrong, also it is a bit of a kick in the balls for the player to be told you are not good enough for your own county but Wicklow don't mind having ya.

Then of course there are the Wicklow fellas that would be left off the team panel of the Dubs got on it.
They would need to begin winning straight away to have some chance of being accepted for a a start.
I think it is a good idea in theory, but the GAA is way too parochial to accept it.

blanch152

Happyilylost wrote: »

The same thing they did for poor numbers in inner city Dublin tbh.

In Dublin they got kids who were not playing the game to play the game.

In many rural areas, there are no kids to get playing the game.

blanch152

TrueGael wrote: »

Keep pretending that Fingal, DLR, South Dublin don't exist and the City Council, all separate administrations...........

Cork should be split into City and County, Tipperary split into North Riding and South Riding.

More nonsense solutions.

doc_17

omega man wrote: »

doc_17 wrote: »

Dublin won’t be split geographically. But they should be spilt from CP and moved back to PP for league and championship. If they don’t like it let them build a ground of their own and service it like every county. Except Cork. They can’t do anything right it would seem.

You state this like it’s completely a dublin choice?
This wouldn’t really be a problem for dublin but it would be a financial and logistical headache for the GAA.

It is for the league. Without doubt. And yes, I know the rest of Leinster has little or no balls but maybe someday they might Final them again.

Clones is the ground always used for the Ulster Final. If Monaghan make the semi it is played at a neutral venue. I know the rest of the county might not like Ulster football but at least the counties have a bit of respect for themselves.

doc_17

*they might find them

blanch152

gaffer91 wrote: »

Your suggestions are terrible. They try to draw some absurd false equivalence between Dublin and Kerry.

Dublin's recent successes are based off a number of factors but the chief ones are unfair and not replicable in any other county- again, these include financial doping, home advantage and massive population. Kerry, or any other county, don't have anything even close to these advantages.

It's not about "nobbling Dublin", it's about leveling the playing field- that Dublin need to be split do this now because of the financial doping over the last 15 years (combined with the other advantages) is just a necessary step, it's nothing to do with animosity towards Dublin.

And don't forget- you would still have a team to support. Teams and players from Dublin (more teams and players in fact) will get to challenge at the highest level and the Dublin subdivision teams would still be in the higher end in terms of population.

It would help them first of all by ensuring the game survives- if the Dublin winning streak continues, which it will, no-one will care about the All-Ireland football championship in 10 years.

Again it's not just population (although Dublin's is such a huge statistical outlier that it is grounds for a two way split), but also the other advantages e.g funding discrepancy which massively favour Dublin.

Anyway as the saying goes "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good"- splitting Dublin is intrinsically good, on its own merits and as such should be undertaken, even if other steps need to be taken later to deal with other issues affecting Gaelic Football.

Typical Kerry response. You are only interested in ensuring the return of Kerry to the top of the pile.

TrueGael

dunnerc wrote: »

Please stop talking nonsense :rolleyes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%BAn_Laoghaire%E2%80%93Rathdown

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dublin

I'm talking Nonsense? No just facts and I think having 4 heavily populated and really wealthy counties should not be allowed field 1 mega resourced team against actual counties with tiny fractions of the resources, it takes the value and meaning completely out of winning when the dice are so loaded heavily one way

Imagine if there was 1 only LOI team in the Region , nobody else would ever hope to compete given sheer disparity in resources

Strumms

^ please stop talking nonsense is right.. if it’s a wind up and I’d like to think so fair enough but if you actually believe this you might want to go see your doctor, seriously...

beggars_bush

harpsman wrote: »

socruel wrote: »

Population of Mayo is twice that of Roscommon and Sligo, which is not that big a disparity.

If you formed a new team/county in the Dublin area it would be an improvement, even if it still has 10 times the population of Roscommon and sligo. Or do you want every team to have the same pop. as Ros and Sligo? If you say so-20 teams from the Dublin area seems a bit much to me, but if thats what you want.

Roscommon have a great tradition of beating the big two in Connacht

I'd rate themselves and Monaghan as two counties who really maximise their resources

beggars_bush

blanch152 wrote: »

In Dublin they got kids who were not playing the game to play the game.

In many rural areas, there are no kids to get playing the game.

In schools, yes. Outside of that?

Where is the big jump in all these non white kids playing club gaa in Dublin?
There hasn't been 5 players in the last 10 years playing for Dublin from a different family background on a minor or U21/20 team

beggars_bush

Bonniedog wrote: »

Now doc, if you have been following this, you will know that playing league in Croke Park has nothing to do with DCB or the teams. Hurlers got out first chance. Best thing Gilroy did.

But overall, I would agree with Dublin playing championship games according to the draw. Again, that is not in gift of DCB. It is something that was decided by Leinster in relation to SFC, and by Congress in regard to the "Croke Park game" in the 8s.

It is up to LC and Congress to make these things happen. Dublin wont be throwing a strop. As mainly hurling person, I can tell you that majority of our championship games have been away games at all grades. Going back 30 years or more.

Who requests that Dublin foot ball games be played in our stadium?

beggars_bush

Strumms wrote: »

Advantage is natural in sport, that’s how we have winners and losers. In golf, football, basketball.

Some players and teams have better coaches, better ways of getting to games - private jet where another team takes the bus, more experienced and accomplished staff and training facilities, the resources to have better hotels... that’s life... my neighbor is off to Westport for five days, our other neighbor is off to Florida. Unfair ? Nope ! Neighbor #1 didnt their life in order that they could afford Florida, #2 DID...thems the breaks...

If Kerry turn around and win five in a row ? Great and well done...

Your neighbour wasn't gifted 100k every year for the last 15 years to improve the standard of his holidays
Which is what the GAA have done to Dublin GAA

Happyilylost

blanch152 wrote: »

In Dublin they got kids who were not playing the game to play the game.

In many rural areas, there are no kids to get playing the game.

Nice assertion. But wrong. Not the case in all but in the majority of the schools I deal with there has been no drop in pupil numbers. Simply kids want to play on the Xbox or play rugby, swimming and a million other things that are available. The days of the GAA being the only gig in town are gone and very little is being done to reverse the dropping numbers.

Slattsy

Happyilylost wrote: »

Nice assertion. But wrong. Not the case in all but in the majority of the schools I deal with there has been no drop in pupil numbers. Simply kids want to play on the Xbox or play rugby, swimming and a million other things that are available. The days of the GAA being the only gig in town are gone and very little is being done to reverse the dropping numbers.

I think some people are finally grasping things.

Unlike down the country, in Dublin the GAA was NEVER the only gig in town. There were several gigs. And GAA was never the first gig. You're getting there lads. Slowly, for obvious reasons.

TrueGael

And eventually the penny will drop with ye that one team having every conceivable advantage under the sun isn't viable for a competition's future............

Even the ultra capitalistic Yanks understand that with their sports...........