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Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

Quin_Dub

This is the eleventh incarnation of our Brexit discussion thread,

Same warnings etc still apply:

As we are approaching the critical end of March October 2019 period, please bear the following in mind before posting:
Insults directed at popular figures are not acceptable in this forum
Please do not post memes, videos or comedy links here
Please do not be uncivil to other posters
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CelticRambler

Inquitus wrote: »

The remain vote is splintered across various parties, in FPTP unless the Brexit Party cannibalises the Tories we could well see Johnson returned with a working majority.

And you don't think both Labour and the LibDems are aware of that? A very good reason for them to "align their positions" and to frustrate Johnson's efforts to call a GE until he has been forced to back down from his "do or die" proclamation, and been ousted from his current role by his own party.

It's worth remembering, too, that while the Tories might hang on to the greatest number of seats in the House, there's no guarantee that Johnson's constituency will send him back to sit in one of them!

jem

If I were them I would take over the order paper completly.
To be in effect the government.
agree on someone to be acting PM who is not standing at next general election.
remove borris and hold second ref.
then general election

robinph

jem wrote: »

If I were them I would take over the order paper completly.
To be in effect the government.
agree on someone to be acting PM who is not standing at next general election.
remove borris and hold second ref.
then general election

Agreeing to a general election before ensuring a referendum would be up there with the daftest things to do during the whole process.

Chips Lovell

Inquitus wrote: »

The remain vote is splintered across various parties, in FPTP unless the Brexit Party cannibalises the Tories we could well see Johnson returned with a working majority. Corbyn is deeply unpopular, if Labour changed leader, and came out with a clear Brexit position that would shift things, but its as likely as Johnson resigning today.

Both the remain and leave votes are split. The only parties at present who are solidly in one camp or the other are the Liberal Democrats and the Brexit Party.

Larbre34

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

He could do the right thing and fire Cummings, resign as PM, announce he won't run in the upcoming election and go back to doing comedy columns in the Telegraph.

No need to refer to them as comedy columns when the whole publication is somewhere between Beano and Viz.

But yeah, Cummings has to wear this one just like Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill. In fact if he doesn't depart, it makes it harder for BloJo to remain, so to speak!

Chips Lovell

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

He could do the right thing and fire Cummings, resign as PM, announce he won't run in the upcoming election and go back to doing comedy columns in the Telegraph.

He definitely won't resign and I'd be surprised if he fired Cummings. He's a lot of eggs in the Cummings basket at present and letting him go would be tantamount to an admission of not just failure, but incompetence.

If there's an election, Cummings will go afterwards, win or lose. If they lose, then his strategy can be blamed for the defeat. If they win, he's served his purpose, which is winning an election by tacking hard to hard Brexit (to pardon the pun).

Larbre34

robinph wrote: »

Agreeing to a general election before ensuring a referendum would be up there with the daftest things to do during the whole process.

That sense talking Irishman Ronan McCrea suggested on the radio earlier, that the opposition could be accused of acting unconstitutionally by not now agreeing to a General Election, because Boris will say he wanted one rather than the prorogation he was forced into and that HM Loyal Opposition are in fact paralyzing the system.

An interesting thought, but probably speaks to the point that the FTP Act and really the whole constitution of the UK is a bit of a joke.

I guess HM Govt could always appeal to the European Court

:p:p

awec

If he fires Cummings he'll look like a tit. It won't happen.

Cummings was a Johnson appointment, and was allowed to set the direction by Johnson, but he's only an adviser, and advisers don't decide anything. If he gets the boot, Johnson looks weak.

sjb25

jem wrote: »

If I were them I would take over the order paper completly.
To be in effect the government.
agree on someone to be acting PM who is not standing at next general election.
remove borris and hold second ref.
then general election

Heard some talk on sky of rumblings of electing Ken Clarke PM think was chukka saying it

listermint

Boris on sky news.

I disagree with ruling.

There's alot of people that want to stop the UK expressing it's democratic right.

Were coming out Oct 31st

Kermit.de.frog

It's being reported the meeting between Johnson and Varadkar is still going ahead.

If I was the DUP i'd be very nervous now because there is only one possible way out for him to keep the Oct 31st date - throw them under the bus, accept all the backstop provisions for the north to get a quick deal and try force through parliament.

L1011

Larbre34 wrote: »

That sense talking Irishman Ronan McCrea suggested on the radio earlier, that the opposition could be accused of acting unconstitutionally by not now agreeing to a General Election, because Boris will say he wanted one rather than the prorogation he was forced into and that HM Loyal Opposition are in fact paralyzing the system.

An interesting thought, but probably speaks to the point that the FTP Act and really the whole constitution of the UK is a bit of a joke.

I guess HM Govt could always appeal to the European Court :p:p

Did he not announce the prorogation *before* the order paper takeover and demand for an election that followed?

J Mysterio

Here are Bercow's comments.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1176464329278926849

This ruling has sent Brexiteers into a blind rage. Screaming obscenities at everyone and everything that doesnt agree with their illegally shutting down parliament to deliver a damaging Brexit.

Enzokk

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's being reported the meeting between Johnson and Varadkar is still going ahead.

If I was the DUP i'd be very nervous now because there is only one possible way out for him to keep the Oct 31st date - throw them under the bus, accept all the backstop provisions for the north to get a quick deal and try force through parliament.

But how does he get the deal through that he lambasted. He is cornered either way and the only way he gets out of it is by breaking some big promise, which doesn't make him electable at all. The May deal will not have the compromises Labour wants and the ERG has slammed it with him. How does he get it through?

Kermit.de.frog

Enzokk wrote: »

But how does he get the deal through that he lambasted. He is cornered either way and the only way he gets out of it is by breaking some big promise, which doesn't make him electable at all. The May deal will not have the compromises Labour wants and the ERG has slammed it with him. How does he get it through?

He could argue GB is free to do whatever it likes. I doubt it would be enough.

But it's his only chance or else it's certain the UK will not be leaving on the 31st.

He has no other options. That's why he is still talking about a deal.

maynooth_rules

Enzokk wrote: »

But how does he get the deal through that he lambasted. He is cornered either way and the only way he gets out of it is by breaking some big promise, which doesn't make him electable at all. The May deal will not have the compromises Labour wants and the ERG has slammed it with him. How does he get it through?

By bull****ting, saying he has protected peace in northern ireland and their position in the union :rolleyes: It will be bull**** and flutter and renamed from the backstop.

Inquitus

sjb25 wrote: »

Heard some talk on sky of rumblings of electing Ken Clarke PM think was chukka saying it

Aye he's only 8/1 in the betting at the moment.

J Mysterio

Seems Boris has put his foot in his mouth again in addressing these developments, as neatly pointed out by Sturgeon.

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1176473450262794240

robinph

Larbre34 wrote: »

That sense talking Irishman Ronan McCrea suggested on the radio earlier, that the opposition could be accused of acting unconstitutionally by not now agreeing to a General Election, because Boris will say he wanted one rather than the prorogation he was forced into and that HM Loyal Opposition are in fact paralyzing the system.

An interesting thought, but probably speaks to the point that the FTP Act and really the whole constitution of the UK is a bit of a joke.

I guess HM Govt could always appeal to the European Court :p:p

But at the moment the opposition parties have a majority, all they don't have is the PM title.

They don't need a general election to take control, just a vote of no confidence and organise themselves properly behind someone (Ken Clarke just tweeted that he's going to be in the HoC bar getting drunk and to let him know when he is needed). Then they just properly put the next direction of Brexit shenanigans to bed by getting the extension from the EU and calling a referendum on remain or the only other option which is Mays deal (where the backstop line is drawn can be argued on later).

Can have the referendum and the general election on the same day, and just need to give the EU a few days notice then in the event of the leave option being picked.

Dohnjoe

For Forks Sake wrote: »

When's Boris due back from the UN?

Due to fly back overnight tonight

J Mysterio

robinph wrote: »

Ken Clarke just tweeted that he's going to be in the HoC bar getting drunk and to let him know when he is needed

That's not actually Ken Clarke :pac:

Sinbad_NI

My faith in British court system is a little stronger today than yesterday.

Please Boris, just go away.

Used to think NI had the wrist politicians in the world. Not so sure now :-)

BorneTobyWilde

Boris

'' we will still leave on 31st of Oct''

He's deluded at this point. Has more chance of being in cuffs and led away.

SeaBreezes

J Mysterio wrote: »

Seems Boris has put his foot in his mouth again in addressing these developments, as neatly pointed out by Sturgeon.

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1176473450262794240

Saw another tweet: If PM insisted prorogation of Parliament was nothing to do with Brexit, why are he and Brexiters saying this ruling is about stopping Brexit?

J Mysterio

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Saw another tweet: If PM insisted prorogation of Parliament was nothing to do with Brexit, why are he and Brexiters saying this ruling is about stopping Brexit?

A lot of the Brexiteers in general public seem to be clueless altogether anyway. They are consistently wrong on a whole range of issues. What is of more consequence is Johnson's comments. He seems to have caught himself in another lie, moments after being caught out by the supreme court.

Akrasia

Johnsons speech that barely mentioned the huge great lumbering mammoth in the room, and his refusal to take questions afterwards throws his comments about 'Corbyn' being a 'chicken' into context.

Can we now all agree that the reason Johnson didn't take questions at the Luxumborg press conference is because he was too scared to take those questions,

BorneTobyWilde

If there was only one leave Party, and one remain Party, then the remain party wins in a landslide. Trouble is there are many remain parties , and one Leave Party

Water John

Be wary now of Cummings being fired to save Johnson. Parlaiment should force Johnson to go to Council meeting on Oct 17th and request an ext of Art 50.
Then have the GE.

J Mysterio

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

If there was only one leave Party, and one remain Party, then the remain party wins in a landslide. Trouble is there are many remain parties , and one Leave Party

Conservatives - leave Deal or No Deal
Brexit Party - No Deal
Liberal Democrats - Revoke
Labour - No opinion, have another referendum!
SNP - Revoke

Seth Brundle

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

If there was only one leave Party, and one remain Party, then the remain party wins in a landslide. Trouble is there are many remain parties , and one Leave Party

Tories and Brexit Party?