Professor Moriarty wrote: » In fact, had a committed Remainer been leader of Labour in June 2016, the current debacle wouldn't exist. Yet again, Corbyn was watery at best. His lack of commitment was a decisive factor in Leave's win.
ballsymchugh wrote: » it probably is, as there's no hope of labour getting a majority after an election unless something freaky happens. just like the lib dems, the pre election promise won't make it out of any coalition/confidence and supply discussion. i doubt Corbyn would make it out the far side of them either tbh. but all the research will show that labour leavers won't support any other party. they're more die hard labour supporters than leavers. labour will lose more to the lib dems than they will to brexit or tories.
lawred2 wrote: » the self importance knows no bounds
Bannasidhe wrote: » I can't speak for Corbyn's motivation and it's been 30 years since I spoke to the man but it wouldn't surprise me if he believes he is genuinely putting the needs of his country above party politics by offering both sides in a very divided country an option they can (grudgingly) agree on enough to break the deadlock.
Bannasidhe wrote: » The PM should try and find a consensus - not feed the divisions. Johnson and Swinton are uncompromising. Lack of compromise and hardline divisions are what led UK politics into it's current quagmire. That and the cult of personality. Feck having a 'charismatic' leader. Charisma doesn't formulate good policy, it smiles at cameras and gives pithy soundbites.
J Mysterio wrote: » Its about the future of the county. Its all at stake, but they are too cowardly to take a position for the sake of a few votes, which might be saved. They have all the information on how damaging Brexit will be, of any type. This is a failure to lead. They are a disgrace.
ballsymchugh wrote: » the cult of personality is why Corbyn is still where he is.
Bannasidhe wrote: » I can't speak for Corbyn's motivation and it's been 30 years since I spoke to the man but it wouldn't surprise me if he believes he is genuinely putting the needs of his country above party politics by offering both sides in a very divided country an option they can (grudgingly) agree on enough to break the deadlock. The Tories are only courting the Leavers. The Lib Dems are only courting the Remainers. If either one wins millions of people are going to feel very excluded. Not a great way to lead a country imho. The PM should try and find a consensus - not feed the divisions. Johnson and Swinton are uncompromising. Lack of compromise and hardline divisions are what led UK politics into it's current quagmire. That and the cult of personality. Feck having a 'charismatic' leader. Charisma doesn't formulate good policy, it smiles at cameras and gives pithy soundbites.
Bannasidhe wrote: » There I have to disagree. Corbyn is there because he is a socialist - he is the figurehead of the actually left in the internal struggle between the socialist left and 'new' labour's whigs mk II and no-one bar the grass roots thought he had a chance of winning the leadership. They were wrong. Personality wise he's not exactly riveting. People forget that there are actually still socialists* in the Labour Party - they were not in favour in New Labour, but they are there among the ordinary membership and for a very long time were just hanging in there out of loyalty to the party. Not me - I sent my membership card back to Kinnock, but I know a lot of them across the UK. They welcomed Corbyn because they hoped for a return to the politics of Attlee and away from the liberal whig ideology of Blair. Corbyn has tried to expound on his policies because that is what he cares about but Brexit has sucked the air out of politics in the UK. It's a vampire. This suits the Tories as they can shout and bang the Brexit drum and drown out everything else - particularly any examination of the real harm their policies have done to ordinary people. The LibDems have found their rallying cry - and that's banging the Brexit drum too. But what other policies do they have? What will they do if they win a majority besides Remain? They talk a lot about the great tradition of the Whigs but leave out the parts about how the Whigs were the mill owners and industrialists who exploited the very workers the LP was formed to represent. They throw out all the great concepts they believe in like Liberty and Equality. Well that's peachy Jo but what are you actually going to do to achieve these things? When you check her voting records there are a lot of qualifiers 'Jo Swinton almost always voted for equality'. The LibDems say they will reverse the Tory cuts to Welfare - but Swinton voted for the Bedroom Tax, voted against increasing welfare in line with increased prices, voted against any increase in illness and disability payments, voted against schemes to help combat youth unemployment and voted for cutting benefits. Jo Swinton voted like a Tory. Brexit is like our Treaty. You are either for it or against it - and when you look closely at the parties on either side there really isn't a huge ideological difference between them.*I'm not talking about communists or Militant Faction/ Hatten and his mob. They were...*insert dismissive term for people pushing an agenda for their personal benefit*
Capt'n Midnight wrote: » Watch the first 20 seconds to see that lack of commitment. He could have easily swung that 1.6%https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36506163/corbyn-i-m-seven-out-of-10-on-eu This whole Brexit mess happened on his watch. Goodbye working time directive. Goodbye EU health and safety. He's betting all of that on a long shot accumulator. IF labour win the next election and IF they can get a new deal with the EU with different unicorns and IF they win a referendum Then they can block EU citizens from taking UK jobs and nationalise failing state industriesBut only until the Tories get back into power and swing the pendulum back until Labour get in again.
woohoo!!! wrote: » All of them are putting party before country. All of them are looking for the best way to maximise seats under FPTP whilst keeping the party together insofar as possible. All of them are chasing unicorns, have little understanding or really care about the issues that Brexit presents on this island. A hard Brexit will and needs to happen. It will accelerate a UI which will of course be a massive challenge but will finally remove Westminster interference. After that I don't care what they want.
Leroy42 wrote: » The issue I have with Corbyn is he is so ineffectual at outlining why Brexit is such a mess. He has failed to show up the lies of Brexit, failed to demand proper investigation into Leave campaign, failed to highlight the reality if what Brexit actually means for people. Instead he has continued to hold this non committal position that either or is fine. Grand that he thinks Brexit can be a success, so law out why the Tory version can't be and why No Deal is so damaging. If he was doing that constantly banging the drum that No Deal would be a disaster, the acceptance of it as a actual policy would be far more questioned
Strazdas wrote: » I'd be inclined to agree. The only thing that can kill off the Brexit virus is it being seen to fail disastrously.
FrankPoll. wrote: » No deal brexit isn't close IMO, that's just political hot air An extension is close
listermint wrote: » It's amusing and odd that you figure point Swindon for voting like a Tory. When Corbyns been voting like a Tory for 2 years. He is basically the ladder for a Troy brexit . He wants brexit as much as the next erg member and all the cost of his members livelyhood. There's nothing socialist about that policy. It will destroy families and jobs. But case. Anyone that supports him is a nut case and no different to the rabid erg supporters. Absymal performance and absymal finger pointing at other parties I think alot of internal reflection is needed in the momentum labour party.
Bannasidhe wrote: » It's not even slightly odd. I took the time to look at both their HoC voting records and a pattern is there for all to see. Only one of them consistently supported Tory policies. The LinDems state they will roll back the cuts the Tories made to welfare. Jo Swinton voted along with the Tories in every single cut they made on welfare. Corbyn voted against every single one. That pattern repeats. Apart from being a Remain party, I see nothing in Jo Swinton's voting record to indicate she is anything but a wet Tory at heart. As for this : " Anyone that supports him is a nut case " - is that seriously the level of debate you want to go for? Any one who wants a genuine left alternative is a "nut job" but meanwhile the Little Englanders are allowed to run roughshod over everyone.
Strazdas wrote: » The only thing that can kill off the Brexit virus is it being seen to fail disastrously.
VinLieger wrote: » This is the arrogance of Corbyn I cannot comprehend, say he wins the election and they do leave Europe which is exactly what he wants. He institutes all of his glorious socialist ideas yet at the next election its entirely likely they will lose to the tories who will decimate everything he has done in that timeframe. BUT then they also won't have the umbrella of base eu protections and laws so the Tories will take things even further than they have before. And still there's the chance they wont win the coming election and the tories decimate things a couple of years earlier. Its a level of arrogance that makes no sense.
Peregrinus wrote: » Exasperated as I am with Corbyn, it seems to me that Labour’s Brexit position is actually pretty rational.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Is the supreme court judgement definitely being handed down this AM?
listermint wrote: » Genuine left ? Is that what you would define yourself as? What specifically about crashing the country into its worst recession on purpose is genuine left. And the hyperbole about Corbyn being able to negotiate a better deal. There is nothing genuine left about the Labour party now, They are momentum, they might aswell be PBP party. Labour have run roughshod over its members and the minority of leadership backed by a very wealthy man are to blame. Do you think this fella is doing it out of the leftness of his heart. Its always money.
