K.G. wrote: » Its amazing i see as the processor in complete control from start to finish of the blockades even still they are showing control and others see it completely different. Blockades weakness is that they are.illegal and once the factories had an injunction they are absolved from any contractual losses which liability passes onto the named people.injunctions had nothing to do with keeping factories open it was a way of closing them and sending cattle for a spin was all part of the process.therefore the factories could sit and wait. Which they did until creed begged them to give the farmer negotiaters a way out.make no mistake the factories were sitting pretty and under no pressure to come back to the table.every thing was in their favour and still is.but anyway i could be wrong
Base price wrote: » TBH I hoped that these talks would have insisted that our certified independent verification body (NSAI) be appointed to oversee the VIA's (video imagining analysis) system that is used to grade our cattle in Irish meat factories. It has been a thorn in my side for several years. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be included in the recent agreement.https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96839559&postcount=134https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=96839559
alps wrote: » Can someone please explain the "Vat Scam".? I've my head full of people trying to explain something they know absolute nothing about, didn't understand when they were being told about it, and have told the world and it's mother about it and so many other conspiracies.. Base, can you have a go?
wrangler wrote: » Just looking at my own posts from that time, my opinion of the PS was spot on regarding the monitoring of the grading....... can't be trusted, is the NSAI part of the public service as well, My heart goes out to the million people that are now on the HSE waiting lists
Muckit wrote: » You'll have to retrain as a Doctor or a nurse or a teacher and show them how it's done
wrangler wrote: » I think you could even be one of them
Buford T. Justice VI wrote: » Bonuses start from today, apparently.https://twitter.com/farmersjournal/status/1176128815191527425?s=19
freedominacup wrote: » I'll have a go. A version of this was scheme was floated around here about 15 years ago. Basically feedlot not registered for vat. Company formed to grow all feed incl all costs relating to machinery. Company vat registered. Grows and sells all "feed" incl grazed grass to feedlot. No vat charged on animal feed afaik. Feedlot because not registered is paid vat on cattle sales with no obligation to pay this to revenue. All vat on inputs claimed by company. Then depending on where you want profits to end up. One side or other of the operation is run at a slight loss or close to break even. Probably sailing close to the wind but not a scam or illegal. Lot of pig farms on it I would think where they have their own mills. I don't know why chicken farms got caught out.
longgonesilver wrote: » If you have 10000 cattle your turnover will be way over 10 million, surely they should be registered for VAT. Can a company even qualify for these vat returns? Do they not have to be vat registered
have2flushtwice wrote: » From a business perspective, what would it cost to build a plant and pay a reasonable price for the product? Private hospitals procured the same model.
Fedlot wrote: » The vat loophole is perfectly Irish revenue legal but anti competitive per the recent eu France pig farmers versus Germany case decision. In a nutshell , the eu states that you cannot make a large gain from the flat rate vat and it’s only meant for small farmers to save everyone the trouble of doing and checking vat returns . It works perfectly well even up to those lads with 7 or 800 cattle as they tend to have big farms and lots of vatable invoices with machinery etc But if you have 10,000 cattle in a feedlot and are getting 5.4% on every sale then that’s way more than compensating you for not being able to claim vat back on your vatable invoices. We are talking hundreds of thousands more of pure profit. The example you give above is a perfectly legal add on to that vat loophole and icsa warned about the possibility of this being abused a lot further by manipulating feed costs etc a year or two ago. This last bit is illegal but apparently has being going on for years in certain agri sectors.
Bass Reeves wrote: » Its not the price to build the factory that is the issue. In general cattle slaughtered on the day are paid on the day( or at least the cheque is posted 24-48 hours later. If cattle are hung for 21 days and then packaged you are looking at 21+ days storage. Retailers look for 90 days credit. In essence yoy are looking at carrying stock for 4 months. For a processor slaughtering 500 cattle/day you are looking at 40-60 million in capital to hold stock Yes the vat is entirely legal at present. However the Irish Government could change the rules at ant stage. For Processors feedlots slaughtering 80K cattle over the year its worth approx 5.5 million. For a larger feedlot killing 3k cattle over a winter,it worth over 200K. There is no way these business have that sort of vat issue.
wrangler wrote: » I wonder when are Beef Plan going to challenge the Tax free land leases or 90% discount of farm transfers, are they working for revenue or what
Never wrestle with pigs wrote: » Notting to do with beef plan. You are so brainwashed by the IFA it's unbelievable.
wrangler wrote: » The deal won't deliver €100m in five years, if it ever does, yet they still think they can boast, you must be brainwashed not to see how poor the whole thing is and what it cost farmers.
CloughCasey1 wrote: » It's the blue tablet in the morning Rangler. Red ones are for evenings. I dont know what colour the IFA tablets are but you are clearly high on those.
K.G. wrote: » I suspect the reason this hasnt been changed is it is acting as an effective subsidy to the poultry industry and to change it now would put that industry under enormous pressure.the beef lads are just piggybacking on it but i think they could do fine without it
Bass Reeves wrote: » Totally different tax reliefs but either are little value to commercial farmers in reality. One drives up the prices of leases and both drive up the value of land. Well from the journal the present deal is worth 23 million/year to farmers. If we factor in that the price would be 3-3.3/kg if no protest. If we factor in that it keep cattle prices up by 20c/kg for the next 3 months it worth 45 million. That gives a total of 68 million. Only 70 million of the Beam scheme was taken up and it was a selective scheme. Some will be clawed back in penalties so it worth much the same as the Beam scheme.
yosemitesam1 wrote: » It could probably be argued in the case of beef that big finishers getting the vat means that a higher price is passed back through the weanling/store producer, a certain amount of vat value would have been accumulated per head by the time it's sent for finishing. Pigs/poultry wouldn't have that Edit. Mart prices include vat, so there's about €10-20 a head in vat for the finisher before any of their own vat expenses
