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Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

johnnyskeleton

This is the tenth incarnation of our Brexit discussion thread, so Ive copied ACDs comments from the last thread to here. Same warnings etc still apply:

As we are approaching the critical end of March October 2019 period, please bear the following in mind before posting:
Insults directed at popular figures are not acceptable in this forum
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Joe_ Public

serfboard wrote: »

You have to wonder if this is another part of the "gaming" strategy of Cummings - p1ss the European leaders off so much that they won't grant an extension.

In which case they should do as Andrew Adonis suggested, and give the UK an extension of 500 years!

Could be i suppose, it would certainly square the circle between "I will obey the law" and "we will be leaving on 31 October deal or no deal" anyway. Problem with that is as soon as extension request is denied, parliament will surely vote Johnson out and then go back again with a new pm in place. At which point EU may well be exhausted by UK shenanigans anyway and simply tell them to hump off.

Equally, Johnson may be sincerely hoping to arrange a deal, some sort of fudge, he can take back and then ensure doesn't pass the house and slip into no deal that way. But your head would hurt trying to figure out all these possible permatations!

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1173635257469480964

(click for thread)

The British "want more a border" now than previously according to Peston.

But the line from EU/Ire side has always been no physical infrastructure or associated checks.

knipex

J Mysterio wrote: »

I have a feeling Labour will win a majority next time round, even as polls suggest this to be very unlikely.

I sincerely doubt it. Corbyn is toxic to large swathes of voters.

knipex

Deleted User wrote: »

The only reading between the lines I see is, "Ireland brace yourself, we will protect the single market!" In the event of a no-deal, you'll have to decide about the hard border.

Was it ever supposed to be otherwise ??

If we are serious about being a part of the EU or even about being a sovereign nation outside the UK then we have to protect our borders and the Irish \ EU markets.

There will be some fudge and we will be allowed some leeway \ delays by the EU but at the end of the day we arent a smuggling route for the UK..

lawred2

boggerman1 wrote: »

Laura k showing she is totally out of her depth.clueless.meanwhile on lbc farage is having a field day about the nasty European's and the "humiliation" of poor old Johnson.even a reporter on lbc that I thought was ok on lbc Theo usherwood is now spouting the propaganda of plucky Britain.

She's angling for a Tory/government advisor/spin doctor. She's completely and utterly compromised.

And she comes across as immature and far too interested in rumors and gossip. Bang of a schoolyard off her.

LuckyLloyd

knipex wrote: »

I sincerely doubt it. Corbyn is toxic to large swathes of voters.

He can lose 5% off his vote percentage from the last general election he fought and do enough to form a government!

Imreoir2

knipex wrote: »

Was it ever supposed to be otherwise ??

If we are serious about being a part of the EU or even about being a sovereign nation outside the UK then we have to protect our borders and the Irish \ EU markets.

There will be some fudge and we will be allowed some leeway \ delays by the EU but at the end of the day we arent a smuggling route for the UK..

Of course, and the leeway has already been confirmed iirc. It is inevitable that the longer no-deal lasts the harder the border will become, which is why any talks with the UK after no-deal have to be contingent on conceeding the backstop. It is unlikely that the UK will be able to hold out for a protracted period in a no-deal brexit so hopefully the backstop will be agreed before the border becomes noticably disruptive on the ground.

Mr.Nice Guy

While I enjoyed Bettel introducing a dose of reality, I can't help but feel this was a tactical misstep. We all know Johnson and co. are preparing to play the blame game and no doubt the Brexiters will seize on this as evidence of the EU's unacceptable attitude. Even listening to Channel 4 news earlier they were talking about how Bettel was making the most of his moment.

SeaBreezes

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

While I enjoyed Bettel introducing a dose of reality, I can't help but feel this was a tactical misstep. We all know Johnson and co. are preparing to play the blame game and no doubt the Brexiters will seize on this as evidence of the EU's unacceptable attitude. Even listening to Channel 4 news earlier they were talking about how Bettel was making the most of his moment.

It doesn't matter what the EU do, the goal is no deal and they will blame whoever they can .. the UK media are all owned not a discerning voice among them..

Tell me how

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

While I enjoyed Bettel introducing a dose of reality, I can't help but feel this was a tactical misstep. We all know Johnson and co. are preparing to play the blame game and no doubt the Brexiters will seize on this as evidence of the EU's unacceptable attitude. Even listening to Channel 4 news earlier they were talking about how Bettel was making the most of his moment.

For literally years now when the UK mess up and the Irish or another government or the EU lets them get egg on their face, it is being portrayed by some as a poor move by said governments or institutions.

We saw t recently with Merkel and the '30 days' and was the same when Varadkar gave his Hercules and Athena speech and now again with Bettel.

Let the UK pontificate about unacceptable attitude, the sensible people will see this for what it is, an out of depth politician and Brexit strategy being found out and the bed which Brexiteers made for them selves being left for them to lie in.

J Mysterio

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

While I enjoyed Bettel introducing a dose of reality, I can't help but feel this was a tactical misstep. We all know Johnson and co. are preparing to play the blame game and no doubt the Brexiters will seize on this as evidence of the EU's unacceptable attitude. Even listening to Channel 4 news earlier they were talking about how Bettel was making the most of his moment.

Who cares to be honest. For too long the EU and European leaders have been overly sensitive to the UK psychodrama. During May's multiple trips to the EU, it was constantly said that May needed to be 'given something to go back with'. She needed to be drip fed something to allow the UK to create a false narrative for their bizarre electorate. Always the same. Cameron demanded more and more concessions. Now Boris is going about to 'get something to bring home'. Well, no more free lunch. Maybe it is now time the UK 'bring something'.

J Mysterio

Seems a backlash against Kuenssburg and the BBC is deepening and becoming 'mainstream'.

https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/1173646862894735360

briany

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

For a short while until the UK comes to its senses.

I'm not so optimistic that'll ever happen. I mean, I hope it does, but I find it hard to envision right now. A lot of sh*t has been brought to bear with Brexit. Great reservoirs of public resentment and anger. It's difficult to quite understand how that's going to just be locked away again and resume things as normal.

briany

J Mysterio wrote: »

Seems a backlash against Kuenssburg and the BBC is deepening and becoming 'mainstream'.

https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/1173646862894735360

As much as I'm loath to say this, I can see Boris's and Laura's point. It would be virtually impossible for him to hold a press conference and look statesmanlike when you have protesters chanting right in his face, and it completely nullifies all chances of the presser looking any way even-handed, before even a word is said. If Bettel had come to Britain, and had to do a presser with a loud group of Brexiteers chanting away only feet from him, would've he been enthusiastic?

That said, it was a dumb tweet to put out.

dublinman1990

Anyone watching The Cameron Interview on ITV at this moment?

J Mysterio

briany wrote: »

As much as I'm loath to say this, I can see Boris's and Laura's point. It would be virtually impossible for him to hold a press conference and look statesmanlike when you have protesters chanting right in his face, and it completely nullifies all chances of the presser looking any way even-handed, before even a word is said. If Bettel had come to Britain, and had to do a presser with a loud group of Brexiteers chanting away only feet from him, would've he been enthusiastic?

That said, it was a dumb tweet to put out.

If anything, it would (potentially) have reflected poorly on the EU (or Luxembourgers) were Boris to be heckled through a speech. He could have used that to appear (a) a victim or, (b) tough in facing it out under pressure.

Instead he wimped out.

Zubeneschamali

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

While I enjoyed Bettel introducing a dose of reality, I can't help but feel this was a tactical misstep. We all know Johnson and co. are preparing to play the blame game and no doubt the Brexiters will seize on this as evidence of the EU's unacceptable attitude.

After EU leaders laugh at the UKs proposals at the October summit, they will decide the length of the extension which the UK can ask for and send Johnson home to Westminster to be told to ask for it.

His humiliation in Dublin and now Luxembourg is nothing compared to what he'll get in Brussels and London.

A Shropshire Lad

What did Johnson go there for today exactly ? Did he have anything to propose ?

FrancieBrady

Seems quite simple to me. They both knew what was going to be said at the presser.
How ridiculous would it have looked if Boris was standing there saying negotiations were going well while Bettel was laying into him. It would have been a fiasco for Boris so he wimped out of it.

Spanish Eyes

Seriously, if by any miracle UK does not leave the eu, would anyone want them sniping and giving out (Farage and others) ad infinitum? They will be a thorn in the side forever more given their superior stance and hubris lol.

I think the issue is over now. They should just go and leave us all alone. But I do realise their decision will impact us and many others, another sign of their cavalier attitude towards their neighbours. But so be it.

Clean break needed now.

Enzokk

briany wrote: »

As much as I'm loath to say this, I can see Boris's and Laura's point. It would be virtually impossible for him to hold a press conference and look statesmanlike when you have protesters chanting right in his face, and it completely nullifies all chances of the presser looking any way even-handed, before even a word is said. If Bettel had come to Britain, and had to do a presser with a loud group of Brexiteers chanting away only feet from him, would've he been enthusiastic?

That said, it was a dumb tweet to put out.

There wasn't these type of protests with May, so it is not a anti-Brexit thing. It is purely against Johnson, so you have to think why it is aimed against him personally. He has pursued the most damaging possible Brexit that will hurt us and the EU the most and he has misled the public by saying they are busy negotiating and sending proposals when all we hear from the EU is this isn't happening.

So if he wants to play games or pursue the most damaging exit from the EU, he should expect push back from both the EU and its citizens. The response from a journalist supposed to be impartial says a lot.

Joe_ Public

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Anyone watching The Cameron Interview on ITV at this moment?

Caught the end of it. He can say sorry as many times as he likes, but he's never going to be politically detoxified. Never. I think he may have some bit of a point in terms of the reasons for calling the referendum - plenty of other moderate conservatives and other parties had been calling for it too - but it was everything after that where the horror began.

Zubeneschamali

briany wrote: »

I'm not so optimistic that'll ever happen.

A month after No Deal, a whole lot of people who don't care about Brexit are going to want to know why shelves are empty and they are queuing for petrol, why Honda, Nissan and airbus have laid everyone off, it costs a pound to buy a US dollar, they can't afford last years holiday and there are soldiers surrounding Westminster to protect it from its own people.

Spanish Eyes

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Caught the end of it. He can say sorry as many times as he likes, but he's never going to be politically detoxified. Never. I think he may have some bit of a point in terms of the reasons for calling the referendum - plenty of other moderate conservatives and other parties had been calling for it too - but it was everything after that where the horror began.

Will you purchase his book, because this is what it is all about. Cameron has been very silent up to now, but book launch, and all of a sudden he is verbose.

As if he needs the money either, but I think I read somewhere that the proceeds are to go to charity or something. I dunno if that's true though.

Seth Brundle

Mod: below standard posts deleted

Joe_ Public

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Will you purchase his book, because this is what it is all about. Cameron has been very silent up to now, but book launch, and all of a sudden he is verbose.

As if he needs the money either, but I think I read somewhere that the proceeds are to go to charity or something. I dunno if that's true though.

Definitely wont purchase it, but will have a look when it becomes available in local library down the line. Obviously, he's on a book tour, but i would guess deep down a part of him will be thinking his political redemption has to start somewhere. Blair seems to have got there after how many years??

Edit: yes, definitely true about the charity.

Spanish Eyes

Oh and while I am on a roll, why are the commentators talking about a DEAL. They have one, it was rejected by Parliament, I don't get it.

So because the original Deal that was negotiated amongst all countries in EU and approved by them doesn't actually suit UK, they are talking about ANOTHER DEAL. NO, it is another negotiation for another deal. Start all over again. But nothing will satisfy them IMO now. So out they go and bloody good riddance.

Idiotic hubristic attitude is so evident.

Strazdas

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

What did Johnson go there for today exactly ? Did he have anything to propose ?

Seems to have just been a PR job / propaganda exercise by Johnson. He set up the meeting himself and wasn't invited there.

A Shropshire Lad

Imagine you had agreed a deal with someone to buy a car. The next day they came back and said, actually when I got home the wife said she doesnt agree so the deals off.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Cameron's book is more about excusing himself from the whole Brexit mess when the sh!t really hits the fan in the UK. Getting his excuses in early.