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Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

johnnyskeleton

This is the tenth incarnation of our Brexit discussion thread, so Ive copied ACDs comments from the last thread to here. Same warnings etc still apply:

As we are approaching the critical end of March October 2019 period, please bear the following in mind before posting:
Insults directed at popular figures are not acceptable in this forum
Please do not post memes, videos or comedy links here
Please do not be uncivil to other posters
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Strazdas

PropJoe10 wrote: »

I'd say that's only the tip of the iceberg of how exasperated they all are. Two years of negotiation down the drain, spoofing and blame game now fully underway in Downing Street.

It only convinces me more and more that the idea of a civilised and orderly Brexit is an impossible fantasy. The UK hasn't put forward any concrete ideas because no options exist. Simple as. It's going to be either May's deal, a crash out, or the end of Brexit.

It seems Johnson must have given Bettel a load of hot air and Incredible Hulk nonsense. He (Bettel) seemed really angry.

PropJoe10

Strazdas wrote: »

It seems Johnson must have given Bettel a load of hot air and Incredible Hulk nonsense. He (Bettel) seemed really angry.

He seemed furious. Good for him. It's about time someone came out and called this for what it is. A sham.

VinLieger

Johnson live on euronews twitter now lying his ass off

https://twitter.com/euronews/status/1173605763593510914

Edit: finished quickly

Enzokk

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Em, why wasn't the press conference just moved indoors?

The response to this from Brexit/Boris/Tory supporters is quite obvious and will only entrench things even further (if possible). And that was without the Luxembourg PM deciding to proceed alone.

Because the Luxemburg PM mentioned it, in a democracy people have a right to protest and to be heard. To do it inside away from the crowds solves nothing and doesn't help democracy at all. Johnson may be able to avoid scrutiny in the UK but the EU will not give him that luxury.

quokula

PropJoe10 wrote: »

I'd say that's only the tip of the iceberg of how exasperated they all are. Two years of negotiation down the drain, spoofing and blame game now fully underway in Downing Street.

It only convinces me more and more that the idea of a civilised and orderly Brexit is an impossible fantasy. The UK hasn't put forward any concrete ideas because no options exist. Simple as. It's going to be either May's deal, a crash out, or the end of Brexit.

An election and a Labour led government could easily lead to a sensible exit that looks a lot like EFTA, as they've been in favour of since the referendum, as have many moderate Tories. Such a deal is completely compatible with the withdrawal agreement.

I've said it before, but the vast majority of MPs (i.e. the opposition) who voted against the deal did so because the political declaration didn't have any strong commitments and basically gave May a free hand to degrade standards and rights in the UK. The backstop was only a concern for the hard right Tory rebels. The right wing media have run with it since then and made it the main issue.

PropJoe10

VinLieger wrote: »

Johnson live on euronews twitter now lying his ass off

https://twitter.com/euronews/status/1173605763593510914

Edit: finished quickly

What did he say?

Itssoeasy

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Em, why wasn't the press conference just moved indoors?

Yup, how were the protesters so close?

There is a touch of a setup about it but the British diplomats should surely have known a protest was a possibility and been prepared to work around it???

Rather strange.

Well were they any closer than the ones outside Downing Street when boris gave his first speech as PM ?

VinLieger

PropJoe10 wrote: »

What did he say?

The ususal guff, if you click the tweet it should be working as a replay now

LeinsterDub

https://twitter.com/alexhern/status/1173600470100848641?s=17

Who's the chicken again Mr Johnson?

Kermit.de.frog

I think it is pretty obvious why Johnson did not do the press conference.

My take is it had less to do with protesters and more to do with the fact his host was visibly furious.

Adamcp898

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Yup, how were the protesters so close?

There is a touch of a setup about it but the British diplomats should surely have known a protest was a possibility and been prepared to work around it???

Rather strange.

VinLieger wrote: »

Why should they move it inside to protect his fragile ego?

And tbh he would have got far more play with the hard brexiteers if he stood up in front of the podium and let the crowd shout over him every time he uttered a lie or nonsense answer.

Enzokk wrote: »

Because the Luxemburg PM mentioned it, in a democracy people have a right to protest and to be heard. To do it inside away from the crowds solves nothing and doesn't help democracy at all. Johnson may be able to avoid scrutiny in the UK but the EU will not give him that luxury.

It didn't even need to be that loud to disrupt the press conference it was held so close tbh. Judging by the pictures of it the crowd isn't even that large.

It'll be easily batted away by Brexit supporters as a stitch up, especially when the Luxembourg PM was happy to proceed with an empty lectern beside him. A little on the nose though.

In more "normal" times convention would dictate that you either:

a) hold the press conference in a more "sensible" place to begin with if there's risk of disruption, or,
b) offer to rearrange if it does become disrupted for one or both parties

This will be painted as little-old Luxembourg's PM trying to play-up to a national and/or EU audience which is quite convenient for Brexiteers given all they care about is playing national politics themselves.

It's nothing to do with protecting anybody's ego either, you just have to realise that the "game" sometimes requires a little more nuance, so to speak

Itssoeasy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I think it is pretty obvious why Johnson did not do the press conference.

My take is it had less to do with protesters and more to do with the fact his host was visibly furious.

That visible fury is being spun as "melodramatic p**t" by one twitter user.

VinLieger

Adamcp898 wrote: »

It's nothing to do with protecting anybody's ego either, you just have to realise that the "game" sometimes requires a little more nuance, so to speak

It also requires balls which Johnson has none of the political variety to speak of, it was 100% about his ego either being to fragile to deal with the protestors or like others have pointed out Bettels visible frustrations with him.

Again if Johnson had been willing to to the conference he would have given his fanclub far more ammunition by A - standing up to them and B - being able to give out about them shouting over him.

Boris flubbed a key moment that would have won him support in the UK from the very people he needs

Adamcp898

VinLieger wrote: »

It also requires balls which Johnson has none of the political variety to speak of, it was 100% about his ego either being to fragile to deal with the protestors or like others have pointed out Bettels visible frustrations with him.

Again if Johnson had been willing to to the conference he would have given his fanclub far more ammunition by A - standing up to them and B - being able to give out about them shouting over him.

Boris flubbed a key moment that would have won him support in the UK from the very people he needs

And the very people in Britain that dislike the EU are fond of caricatures which paint Europeans as being arrogant (as well as drunks, as another Luxembourger well knows)

It doesn't take a massive leap to see how this will be spun.

trellheim

Can anyone recall a similar in recent times when a UK head of government ditched a presser with another EU head of government ?

Kermit.de.frog

Isn't it amazing how the same people who go on about snowflakes etc are themselves so easily triggered?

https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1173607131712565249

SeaBreezes

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Isn't it amazing how the same people who go on about snowflakes etc are themselves so easily triggered?

https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1173607131712565249

So, they are saying they have never been rude to Leo?

lawred2

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Isn't it amazing how the same people who go on about snowflakes etc are themselves so easily triggered?

https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1173607131712565249

https://twitter.com/Maurich1/status/1173609439456366592?s=20

I have a searing pain between my eyes

Headshot

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Isn't it amazing how the same people who go on about snowflakes etc are themselves so easily triggered?

https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1173607131712565249

It really boggles the mind tbh

I don't think they can understand that the criticism was solely at the feet of the Tory part.

PropJoe10

It's quite enjoyable seeing people on Twitter freaking out about the Luxembourg PM being so "disrespectful" to Boris. I would say that the Europeans haven't even gotten started yet. As Tony Soprano once said, "those who want respect, give respect".

ambro25

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Em, why wasn't the press conference just moved indoors?

(...).

Well, we're a pretty small place to start with, and conferencing room is at a budget-busting premium these days, what with all the UK banks and insurers moving here.

:pac:

liamtech

Headshot wrote: »

It really boggles the mind tbh
I don't think they can understand that the criticism was solely at the feet of the Tory part.

in my opinion these types of journalists see the Tory part as the 'Real Britain' - so therefore criticizing the Conservative Party (and their transparent PM- See latest Press Conference Picture), is criticizing the UK in general

briany

PropJoe10 wrote: »

It's quite enjoyable seeing people on Twitter freaking out about the Luxembourg PM being so "disrespectful" to Boris. I would say that the Europeans haven't even gotten started yet. As Tony Soprano once said, "those who want respect, give respect".

When the Brexiteers slag off the EU, that's banter. When the EU slag off the UK, that's Hitler.

At some point, you just have to say there's no more talking sense.

Adamcp898

Laura K's on the job.

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1173607985911873542?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1173607985911873542&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2Flive%2F2019%2Fsep%2F16%2Fbrexit-latest-news-boris-johnson-talks-juncker-eu-must-show-flexibility-says-raab-ahead-of-boris-johnsons-key-meeting-with-juncker-live-news-latest-news

Akrasia

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

They are not divulging anything because it's a load of nonsense and they know it's a load of nonsense.

They want to take it down to the last EU summit hoping EU leaders will put pressure on Ireland.

It's because this whole brexit fiasco is based on wishfull thinking and slogans, and as soon as you try to explain anything in terms of concrete proposals, it falls apart instantly.

It's the same reason why the brexit party had no manifesto in the UEPARL elections and why they probably won't have any manifesto in the next GE

Kermit.de.frog

The Invisible Hulk?

Walked in to that one, didn't he.

You couldn't make his incompetence up. Can't even do basic optics right.

briany

Akrasia wrote: »

It's because this whole brexit fiasco is based on wishfull thinking and slogans, and as soon as you try to explain anything in terms of concrete proposals, it falls apart instantly.

It's the same reason why the brexit party had no manifesto in the UEPARL elections and why they probably won't have any manifesto in the next GE

Their manifesto might as well be an old-school mixtape featuring such classics as We're Not Gonna Take it and Please, Please, Please Let Me Get What I Want.

irishash

How is Laura K still the chief Political Correspondent for the BBC - I used to think Nick Robinson was bad but Laura just cant hide her true feelings for Johnson

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1173612666591633409

Imreoir2

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I think it is pretty obvious why Johnson did not do the press conference.

My take is it had less to do with protesters and more to do with the fact his host was visibly furious.

I can only assume that Johnson expected the press-conference to be cancelled when he decided not to participate. In normal cisrumstances it would be very undiplomatic to go ahead with a press-conference and make the visiting PM look like a fool by standing at one of two podiums, gesturing at the obvious absence of your guest, and ripping into them.
These are not normal circumstances though, and the move was entirely justified, but it probably cought Johnson off guard.

briany

What are the odds that Boris would set up a press conference with one leader - two lecterns, when he gets back to Blighty, as a publicity stunt?