The fatal weakness of the English, I believe, is their arrogance – their belief that the same cultivated hatreds that tore other nations apart and launched bloody genocide won’t have the same effect on them. Those that try to hold up a mirror to the past are mocked and scorned.
is_that_so wrote: » I actually don't expect much of anything, just the usual well-meaning determination to make progress.
fergiesfolly wrote: » Would the EU consider it best for all concerned, not to extend the the deadline, let the UK leave with no deal and start to rebuild the relationship again in negotiations afterwards. Surely there's too much toxicity between the two sides now to have any trust. UK staying in will mean Brexit MEPs constantly creative havoc in parliament, while UK media spread anti EU propaganda at home. I know the replies here will talk of the economic hardships and GFA, but how long can this nonsense continue?
Akrasia wrote: » woohoo!!! wrote: » Johnsons only option is to continue with the anti democratic attack line. A PM hurling from the ditch. I'd say he's calculating to get a majority in a GE and move swiftly towards a deal. The difficulty for him is, if the gamble doesn't work and he's the one that's been shouting for an election, then no deal consequnces will start to stick to him. From the EUs perspective, may be better to let the dust settle and say no an extension request if one forthcoming. Not a lot to be gained to roll in the mud with the intrigues of what passes for UK politics these days. This would be an awful strategy. If he campaigns in a GE based on delivering an ultra hard brexit and somehow manages to get a majority, and then he tries to use that majority to push through something akin to May's deal with a few minor changes, then he's setting himself up for a backbench rebellion that would render his majority meaningless. If he campaigns on a hard brexit and ends up in a coalition with the Brexit party, then between Farage and the ERG, he would have no majority for any kind of Deal with the EU either.
woohoo!!! wrote: » Johnsons only option is to continue with the anti democratic attack line. A PM hurling from the ditch. I'd say he's calculating to get a majority in a GE and move swiftly towards a deal. The difficulty for him is, if the gamble doesn't work and he's the one that's been shouting for an election, then no deal consequnces will start to stick to him. From the EUs perspective, may be better to let the dust settle and say no an extension request if one forthcoming. Not a lot to be gained to roll in the mud with the intrigues of what passes for UK politics these days.
Shelga wrote: » Labour’s policy makes more and more sense to me. Never thought I’d say that! Imagine if, in theory, the Lib Dems got a majority with something like 35% of the vote (highly unlikely but still). They just revoke article 50 without a vote? Accusations of being undemocratic would be completely valid.
Shelga wrote: » Listened to Jo Swinson on Radio 4 this morning and thought she came across as very unlikeable and arrogant. I’m as hardline a Remainer as there could possibly be, but you cannot just say you will unilaterally revoke article 50 and pretend the whole thing never happened. I think this latest Lib Dem policy is just more digging in of heels, no attempt to reach out to the other side, no attempt to reduce the polarity in UK politics at the moment. She’s clearly trying to be ‘bold’ as the new leader, all over the airwaves claiming she can go from 18 seats to a majority of 330+ in the HoC. It’s one thing to be ambitious, but try not to completely alienate half the electorate as you go. I think their previous policy of a second referendum was ideal- they were unequivocally Remain, but not without the informed consent of the public. She also completely rubbishes the SNP and Labour in every interview- also unnecessary and damaging, as she’ll likely have to work with one or both of them in the near future. Labour’s policy makes more and more sense to me. Never thought I’d say that! Imagine if, in theory, the Lib Dems got a majority with something like 35% of the vote (highly unlikely but still). They just revoke article 50 without a vote? Accusations of being undemocratic would be completely valid.
Nody wrote: » Farage has now come out stating he expects an extension as Boris "new deal" will not pass through the parliament;
fergiesfolly wrote: » I know the replies here will talk of the economic hardships and GFA, but how long can this nonsense continue?
Shelga wrote: » you cannot just say you will unilaterally revoke article 50 and pretend the whole thing never happened.
swampgas wrote: » Part of the problem with FPTP, apart from the obvious fact that voters have to vote strategically, is that political parties have to position themselves so that they will be as successful as possible despite the distortion that FPTP produces. All of the parties are affected by it. Here in Ireland we can be bewildered by the way British political parties and politicians position themselves, once the FPTP system is factored in it makes more sense. We can be grateful that the two attempts to introduce FPTP into Ireland in 1958 and 1968 were defeated.
Zubeneschamali wrote: » Obviously, the LibDems can't do this unless they get an overall majority, but there is nothing wrong with Swinson setting that out as her policy. If they win the next election, they can absolutely do it, they'll have a mandate to do it. In practice, the LDs are the fourth largest party and have no chance whatsoever of winning an overall majority, so a more likely outcome is a Labour/LD/Green government propped up by the SNP, who agree to hold another referendum with Revoke A50 as one option.
Shelga wrote: » Bit hypocritical of them though, having campaigned for proportional representation, to take advantage of the FPTP system to ignore the Brexit referendum.
Seth Brundle wrote: » Meanwhile Hulk actor Mark Ruffalo throws some cold water on an analogy used by Boris...https://twitter.com/MarkRuffalo/status/1173273612075376641
VinLieger wrote: » Maybe ive got my tinfoil hat scrunched too tight but as more days of this nonsense go by i can't help but think and feel this whole mess is some kind of experiment or project that was engineered and not just to split UK/Europe and the west at large as many generally accept is Russia's longterm goal. The objective? Im not sure, maybe to see if one of the oldest democracies in the world can be shattered and broken for all the world to see and shown off as an example for some sinister purpose? Or to see if the politics of left and right can be replaced by something far more divisive and polarising and will ultimately distract people from the real crimes being perpetrated by the elite upon the impoverished? Its getting to the stage where it all just seems to perfect, especially in the levels of chaos constantly being created, leave or remain the rifts created in the UK will not be healed for a long long time and with either result there will be impact felt far afield for possibly just as long.
ambro25 wrote: » I'm on the ground, and have €10 on Bettel outdoing Varadkar if there's a Johnson-Bettel presser. Juncker is Luxembourgish too, lest people forget: they're politically very astute, but they don't do wooden tongue much. Just ask Asselborn (their SecState, of "f***" at Salvini -fame, back in May).
President Jean-Claude Juncker and Prime Minister Johnson had a working lunch today in Luxembourg. The aim of the meeting was to take stock of the ongoing technical talks between the EU and the UK and to discuss the next steps. President Juncker recalled that it is the UK’s responsibility to come forward with legally operational solutions that are compatible with the withdrawal agreement. President Juncker underlined the commission’s continued willingness and openness to examine whether such proposals meet the objectives of the backstop. Such proposals have not yet been made. The commission will remain available to work 24/7. The October European Council will be an important milestone in the process. The EU27 remain united. President Juncker was accompanied by the European commission’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier. President Juncker will travel to Strasbourg later today and will address the plenary session of the European Parliament on Wednesday morning.
Nody wrote: » Farage has now come out stating he expects an extension as Boris "new deal" will not pass through the parliament; what's with the lack of faith and hard positive thinking these days in the Brexiteer camp?! We were told that was all that was required and now they are backpedaling...
swampgas wrote: » This description by Mike Stuchbery in the ByLine Times of the way the UK has changed in the last few years is (IMO) rather scary. Some of my own experiences visiting the UK regularly over recent years would be similar.https://bylinetimes.com/2019/09/02/goodbye-to-all-that/ One paragraph in particular stood out for me: The next few weeks could mark the point where we finally recognise that the UK has slipped past a point of no return.
Winters wrote: » The mathematics behind the FPTP system is quite interesting actually. Over time it will create and protect the two party system. I hate to gloat over other political systems but STV PR is so well suited to modern politics.
... because it was invented by the Englishman Thomas Hare and has been used in many parts of the former British Empire, STV has in the past been referred to as "British proportional representation". Nonetheless it has never been used by more than a handful of constituencies in the British Parliament. In 1917, the Speaker's Conference in the United Kingdom advocated the adoption of STV for 211 of the 569 constituencies in the UK, and instant-runoff voting for the rest. Although the House of Commons voted in favour of the proposals five times, the House of Lords continually rejected it until the nationwide effort was ultimately abandoned in parliament.
Akrasia wrote: » Farage doesn't want any kind of a deal He's been banging on about a 'Clean Break' brexit in an attempt to re-brand 'no deal' or 'crash out' In a divorce, a clean break means a complete end of financial ties to each other. I wonder will Farage expect his MEP pension to still be paid after his 'clean break' happens and the UK renege on their financial commitments to the EU.
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