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Negative vaping publicity

Guffy

I'm surprised there has been no discussion here about all of the recent negative reports on vaping. Reports coming out if the US with a lot of severe illnesses/death directly attributed to vaping.

Myself, i haven't seen anything concrete tbh. Seems like scare mongering to me but just from a cursory glance.

Has anyone else looked into this in more depth

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nthclare

Supposedly you've more chance of inhaling worse things if you're working in a kitchen...

Lot's of vapour from cooking, from oily vapour to vegetation and meat fish etc...

I vape myself and the one drawback is dehydration and sometimes I feel tired.

Although I sleep better than I did while smoking, no hanging out the window at 3am for a vape.

Just the usual 3am piss.....

[Deleted User]

bladespin wrote: »

I know that when I was smoking I had the usual breathing issues, shortness of breath after exertion, morning cough etc etc. But I swapped to vaping some time back and now I can run without wheezing afterwards, no coughing in the morning and so on, not a scientific answer but for me vaping is far better.

Smoked for 5 years. Every morning woke up with a phlegmy throat. Vaping for 5 years now, only time I have phlegm is if Ive a cold which only happens about once a year. I can walk miles without being out of breath.

If vaping had a serious impact on my health I'm curious how it would manifest itself. Currently I feel as healthy as if I wasn't vaping and its a great stress reliever in work.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Smoked for 5 years. Every morning woke up with a phlegmy throat. Vaping for 5 years now, only time I have phlegm is if Ive a cold which only happens about once a year. I can walk miles without being out of breath.

If vaping had a serious impact on my health I'm curious how it would manifest itself. Currently I feel as healthy as if I wasn't vaping and its a great stress reliever in work.

I'll probably get booted out of this conversation now, but please dont think that smoking or vaping reduces stress.
Again, I am an ex smoker, but there are a huge number of studies out there that support the fact that smoking/vaping increases stress.
The way it was put to me, is look at all the people you work with, who dont smoke. Are they all more stressed than you? The answer is no. Surely if smoking/vaping reduced stress, then the non-smokers would all be under severe stress.

I'll leave now, as I have gone off topic, but I thought this is worth highlighting. We are in a "Giving Up Smoking" sub-forum by the way, and removing the belief that smoking/vaping helps you in anyway is a massive hurdle you need to get over to become a non-smoker.

To slowly go back on topic, if you feel healthier vaping than you did when you were smoking, that is great. Do what makes you feel better\happier\healthier

Best of luck everyone

[Deleted User]

kippy wrote: »

I suppose it all depend on "what" you are vaping but in general I wouldn't disagree with the assertion that vaping is nowhere near as bad for your health as smoking traditional cigarettes.
That doesn't make vaping "good" just not as bad.
If it helps people get off the cigarettes I am all for it but if people continue to vape after a certain time period I'd be concerned that they may suffer longer term issues that have yet to be fully determined.
I would in no way suggest that people go from vaping back to cigarettes based on the stories mentioned above so I dont think the cigarette companies have anything to gain by the publicity.

It's about harm reduction IMO. Anyone I know who went from smoking to vaping feels much better and you can even see it in them. Women smoking 50 years, me smoking 15 years, the difference is night and day. Yes it would be better if we quit but 100 people going to vaping is better than 10 quitting smoking IMO.
As for the cigarette companies anything they can do to stem the tide, they'll do it.

Deleted User wrote: »

As an ex smoker, I've always been skeptical of vaping.
It might be healthier than smoking, but generally, in my opinions, vapers vape a whole lot more than smokers smoke.
I have a number of friends who vape, and then seem to be puffing away on it a lot more frequently than smokers light up.

I have no hidden agenda here, I think let people smoke and vape to their hearts consent, and stop trying to guilt people into stopping.
But I do feel that after a few more years, we will start to see the real results of vaping. I imagine it will be considered bad for you as well, and be linked with numerous deaths. But sure, what isn't bad for you.

As for the conspiracies around smoking, I absolutely agree that governments want people to smoke. The tax on smokers is a huge source of income for countries. If governments really cared about saving the lives of smokers, they would be doing a huge amount more.
Even the government back support groups for stopping smoking are cynically named. "QUIT" is a terrible name. It immediately provides negative connotations. The idea of quitting something makes people think they've failed. Or that they're missing out on something.
I quit a race. I quit the course I was doing. [/tangent]

Ex smokers and current smokers who've never made a proper attempt to quit are generally the most skeptical about vaping. :pac:
I'll put it like this, a guy I worked with went from smoking to vaping and in under 2 years was running 10ks and lost about 8 stone. There is 0 chance he could have if still smoking.
I personally have been losing weight, can walk for hours without hacking and coughing, can do a bit of exercise and I'm not afraid to get out of breath because I can get it back. Never could while smoking. FFS a few times a year I'd "rupture" something from coughing and hack up a bit of blood for a few days. I don't miss it. :P
It's not perfect, but it's a huge improvement.

But for all the vested interests the research that should be coming out now would be fascinating. Take people who have vaped for the last 10 years and compared their health to people who continued smoking in that time.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll probably get booted out of this conversation now, but please dont think that smoking or vaping reduces stress.
Again, I am an ex smoker, but there are a huge number of studies out there that support the fact that smoking/vaping increases stress.
The way it was put to me, is look at all the people you work with, who dont smoke. Are they all more stressed than you? The answer is no. Surely if smoking/vaping reduced stress, then the non-smokers would all be under severe stress.

I'll leave now, as I have gone off topic, but I thought this is worth highlighting. We are in a "Giving Up Smoking" sub-forum by the way, and removing the belief that smoking/vaping helps you in anyway is a massive hurdle you need to get over to become a non-smoker.

To slowly go back on topic, if you feel healthier vaping than you did when you were smoking, that is great. Do what makes you feel better\happier\healthier

Best of luck everyone

Not looking to start a big row but again for most people it's about improving things. I doubt there's many on here who'd prefer to not feel like they need to vape but that's where they are.
I don't smoke, drink or do drugs, rarely get takeaway, eat ok, don't have a gambling, trying to lose weight. If my one vice is vaping then I'm fine with that.
I do know where you're coming from with the proper quitting POV but most of us are aware of it and happy to stay at the half-way (more like 95%-way :P ) point.

[Deleted User]

Being discussed on Liveline now, so expect well informed debate.

rob316

It will be taxed and have a minimum pricing eventually. The main reason they brought in the max bottle size for liquid with nicotine was so there would be a universal unit size they could tax accordingly.

The TPD was only the start of the regulation of ecigarettes but it's been unable to progress as there is still no independent evidence that vaping legal products is harmful and it's irrefutably less harmful than smoking. I agree it's early days to see the long term effects but you can't argue what we are seen right now regarding the positive effects.

You have the NHS allowing vape shops in hospitals now, actively promoting it as a smoking replacement. The optics look terrible for any state looking to ban or serverely curtail the accessibility to them.

Dr Bill V1.5

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Being discussed on Liveline now, so expect well informed debate.

Think there'd be more reasonable, sensible debate here tbh

[Deleted User]

rob316 wrote: »

It will be taxed and have a minimum pricing eventually. The main reason they brought in the max bottle size for liquid with nicotine was so there would be a universal unit size they could tax accordingly.

The TPD was only the start of the regulation of ecigarettes but it's been unable to progress as there is still no independent evidence that vaping legal products is harmful and it's irrefutably less harmful than smoking. I agree it's early days to see the long term effects but you can't argue what we are seen right now regarding the positive effects.

You have the NHS allowing vape shops in hospitals now, actively promoting it as a smoking replacement. The optics look terrible for any state looking to ban or serverely curtail the accessibility to them.

Hate to admit it but the Brits seem to be the only ones not with their heads up their arses. :P

It'll be interesting if/when they try to tax it. Contraband for it will be great craic.

[Deleted User]

Dr Bill V1.5 wrote: »

Think there'd be more reasonable, sensible debate here tbh

That comment was tongue in cheek.

bladespin

rob316 wrote: »

It will be taxed and have a minimum pricing eventually. The main reason they brought in the max bottle size for liquid with nicotine was so there would be a universal unit size they could tax accordingly.

This will be very difficult, I've noticed a trend in some EU countries towards 0nic juice (you add your own nicotine if you want), now I can see how they could target nicotene but cannot see how it could be controllable as a taxed product etc.

I've been on the 0% stuff a long time and it works fine for me.

rob316

bladespin wrote: »

This will be very difficult, I've noticed a trend in some EU countries towards 0nic juice (you add your own nicotine if you want), now I can see how they could target nicotene but cannot see how it could be controllable as a taxed product etc.

I've been on the 0% stuff a long time and it works fine for me.

They'll close that loophole eventually, the availability and range of product has exploded through shortfills.

bladespin

rob316 wrote: »

They'll close that loophole eventually, the availability and range of product has exploded through shortfills.

What loophole? Not being smart but don't see what they could do, essentially after the nic it's just glycerin and flavors.

Captcha

Ronald Unimportant Lever wrote: »

Inhaling chemicals every few minutes, every day, can't be good. I smoked for a few years, never had any side-effects, I'm sure if I kept it up for another 30 years that would be a different though. Most vapers are only vaping a couple of years. It took decades for them to figure out the cigarettes were bad.

All matter, including us, is made of chemicals. Chemistry is the study of the composition, structure, properties and reactions of matter. Everything is made of chemicals. This includes the whole Earth – all matter in it and on it is made of chemicals.

Captcha

J Mysterio wrote: »

I actually had a search of the vaping forum yesterday to see if there was a thread on this after having watched this exact video on YouTube.

It looks like all this sh1t in the states is a deliberate misrepresentation. From what I can see, the majority of the people in difficulty have been vaping home made CBD oil, and not e-liquid produced by reputable companies.

I think most people who vape recognise that it's not entirely benign, but it's a damn sight better than smoking.

My view is that it's probably to stick to some of the less fancy flavours as the flavouring is where the risk is. About a year after I started vaping there was the diacetyl scandal and discussion about 'popcorn lung' etc. with a suggestion that butter/ cream/ cake/ custard flavours might have some risk attached.

I have mostly only vaped 'Bright Tobacco' for years, which is very bland. I do sometimes vape other stuff too, and don't worry too much about it.

I'd like to see continuing research and study. I don't trust much about the US these days though, particularly with the maniac they have in charge, so preferably independent European studies.

A big thing I see from vapers after quitting smoking is wanting the cheapest possible vape liquids, making their own etc, buying online from random cheapest places.... It's your lungs ffs, people need to either really fully qualify those "good deals" or simply buy from a reputable brand such as Juul - bad rep and good rep I know but at least they are big enough to actively make their liquids safer.

J Mysterio

The discussion on Liveline was not the worst ever. The host was receptive to points in favour of vaping and criticized some obviously stupid anti-vaping points.

The owner of vapura (think it was) rang in to give balance and did an ok job, if a little preachy/ holier than thou.

There was some scientist from DCU who had the rug pulled from under him on some obviously wrong points he made. Once the owner of Vapura clarified his sh1te, your man basically thanked him and finished up :pac:

corkie

^^^ Anyone missed can listen here: - https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/21619224

Edit: - The caller on the show could be in the very small percent of people who are allergic to vape oils liquid pg/vg.

According to E-CigReviews(dot)org(dot)uk, allergic reactions to propylene glycol or vegetable glycerin, two ingredients that make up e-liquids, are possible although often rare. Symptoms of a propylene glycol allergy include dry throat, sore throat, swollen gums, skin problems and rashes, and sinus problems.

....

Only about 1 out of every 1000 people has a VG sensitivity. Around 10% of people have a slight sensitivity to PG, however, this usually only exhibits itself in the form of dryness in the throat.

Dr Bill V1.5

I'll still take these guys at their word and the good old US can go take a jump.

https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2019/02/27/e-cigarette-evidence-update-patterns-and-use-in-adults-and-young-people/

[Deleted User]

There are certainly a lot of mixed messages coming out about vaping at the current time.

The deaths and serious hospitalisations seem to have a lot to do with cannabis-related products (but also some to do with "normal" nicotine-based products) but it's not fully clear.

The whole Trump thing seems to me like he wants he wife to have a "cause" that she can put her own stamp on to get behind - not entirely rational but such are the times we live in.

For sure (as an ex-vaper) it's healthier not to vape compared to vaping (I can tell the difference in aerobic performance) but it's also healthier to vape rather than to smoke but that equally doesn't mean that you have to vape forever.

It is also a bit annoying obviously that people who see the headlines and jump on the whole "vaping will kill you" thing or those who are completely uninformed.

there is also the conflict with the concept of helping smokers stop smoking with the idea of young people coming in and getting addicted to nicotine.

corkie

Wisconsin man ran a drug ring that filled up to 5,000 bootleg vaping cartridges per day, police say

Not mentioned but JUUL removed some flavor pods from the US market, which also generated a rise in bootleg flavor pods there. What heck was put in them pods.

Also as THC Oils is illegal in some states, people may have been reluctant to report/admit to using it.

A Thickener Used in Pot Vaping Is a Hugely Popular Black-Market Scam
Vitamin E acetate is used to thicken THC oil, but sellers are running scared as investigators close in.

bladespin

clairebyrnelive@rte.ie would like your input, feel a hatchet job coming.

corkie

bladespin wrote: »

clairebyrnelive@rte.ie would like your input, feel a hatchet job coming.

Flavour of the month? Questions over marketing of fruity e-cigarettes

.....
But because we don’t know the full picture about the safety or otherwise of vaping, we should be asking questions about how these nicotine products are marketed and advertised – and the potential impact on the nation’s health.

We'd like to hear about your experience of vaping - has it helped you to quit smoking? Are you a committed vaper? Do you know any teenage e-cigarette fans? Are you worried that we are creating a new generation of nicotine addicts?

Tell us about it by emailing clairebyrnelive@rte.ie.

No mention of THC on that page? If someone is emailing maybe link this thread?

Dr Bill V1.5

It's all good

https://imgur.com/Sx9ZM4S

Shinobollo

Dr Bill V1.5 wrote: »

It's all good

https://imgur.com/Sx9ZM4S

Te He He

corkie

3-55-trump-introduces-100-million-vaping-dashvapes-4-9k-views-1-55779124.png

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1172639954985455616

[Deleted User]

corkie wrote: »

^^^ Anyone missed can listen here: - https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/21619224

Edit: - The caller on the show could be in the very small percent of people who are allergic to vape oils liquid pg/vg.

That callers story is full of holes though. It's also possible he just doesn't like vaping, doesn't understand it and is afraid of it so rang Liveline who were only delighted to kick start a new debate.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

That callers story is full of holes though. It's also possible he just doesn't like vaping, doesn't understand it and is afraid of it so rang Liveline who were only delighted to kick start a new debate.

in fairness the liveline woman was fairly measured.

the guy who claimed he lost his voice was one of those sample size of one types who is convinced that his word is canon law.

corkie

Banning flavors leads to possible increase in BlackMart buying!

Gov. Cuomo bans flavored e-cigarettes in New York after vaping illnesses, deaths

Following US vape ban plans would see former smokers 'relapse', say UK health experts
The overall use of e-cigarettes among young people remains low, but the number who have tried it has almost doubled in four years.

Trump's proposed ban on vape flavors may not stop teens from vaping, experts warn

youcancallmeal

Looks like the beginning of the end in the US with NY banning flavours and many more states will follow suit no doubt. I can see it happening in Ireland in the near future as well. There's no way it wouldn't get passed in the Dáil, just like the US the argument that it's "for the kids" trumps all other reasoning.

Dr Bill V1.5

youcancallmeal wrote: »

Looks like the beginning of the end in the US with NY banning flavours and many more states will follow suit no doubt. I can see it happening in Ireland in the near future as well. There's no way it wouldn't get passed in the Dáil, just like the US the argument that it's "for the kids" trumps all other reasoning.

You could be right but I'd hope that we align ourselves more closely to the UK,at least they take onboard the scientific tests before making sweeping decisions.
As far as I'm aware although I'm open to correction on this, DIY isn't affected by this ban in the US, because the ingredients are so closely entwined with the food industry a ban would cause chaos, imagine a flavourless cheese cake yuuuuuck

Like eating cardboard.