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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

seligehgit

Discussion of all matters relating to this contentious subject is welcome and the potential implications of same.This thread is solely for this purpose.

There appears to be a perception that the moderators are attempting to shut down discussion of this topic and direct same off to a low traffic stickied thread.Nothing could be further from the truth.Our sole motive was to confine discussion to a single thread and prevent cross thread posting which was adversely affecting the enjoyment of fellow posters.

Can we please keep posts civil and constructive in nature.

The Changes in the GAA-super thread is now for discussion of all other suggested reforms not relating to Dublin GAA.

Extra Mod Warning:
Right, a separate warning to both sides in this debate:
Firstly, any more mentioning of "financial doping" or any intimation that rules have been broken by Dublin or that Dublin have cheated are banned from now on. You can debate the issue of the funding that Dublin have received without resorting to that. There is zero evidence of it and posting about it will be considered trolling from here on in.

Secondly, this topic is, like it or not, a big talking point in gaelic football at the moment. You are more than welcome to argue your point, but posting in this thread to simply mock those on the other side or complaining about the topic is known as thread spoiling and is specifically banned in the charter (see point 8 here). No one is forcing you to click on this thread and no one is forcing you to post in it. If you don't like the topic, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

This thread is here so that all the discussion is in one place and it won't filter into other threads. This makes it easier to ignore for posters who don't really want to be involved in it. As a result, we haven't really been moderating it as severely as other threads. However, a number of posts recently from both sides are sailing too close to the wind and getting borderline personal. So please take a minute before you hit submit to ensure that your post won't fall foul of the rules. We'll have no hesitation in issuing cards and/or threadbans to posters who fail to heed this warning.

Please report any posts that you feel break the rules.

Any questions, please feel free to PM the mods.

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maestroamado

The Rooster wrote: »

Well just go back one game to the semi final v Mayo, Howard scored from more than 30 metres out and Mannion scored at least 2 from more than 30 metres out.

So either:
-You don't understand "literally", and/or
-You don't understand "metres", and/or
-You only watched Dublin play one match this year

I recommend you watch the "12 in 12" period in the second half of the Dublin v Mayo semi final for a healthy dose of magnificent awe inspiring football.
High-fielding, great passing, great tackles, super points and awesome goal finishing.
Will only take 12 minutes but the joy will last a lot longer.

Kerry have some super players too, so I think we're all in for a treat on Saturday, whether the 5 in a row is completed by the Boys in Blue or whether it's derailed by the Green & Gold (and maybe then there might be a period of Kerry dominance).

It seems to me you do not understand as you seem to just see Dublin and i really do not care who wins, its just my opinion of what i see.
Mayo/Dublin bad example in my opinion, i agree Dublin were great in the first 20 mins of second half but Mayo just folded which is difficult to understand. I seen a few of the Dublin games this year, if the result is obvious before the game i do not watch any of the games as no point.
I certainly hope that Kerry or no other County dominate football going forward as bad for the game.
I notice the bosses had the wisdom to delete a few posts.
We will agree to disagree on Saturday result but it should be a cracker...

BarryD2

maestroamado wrote: »

We will agree to disagree on Saturday result but it should be a cracker...

Dunno, replays rarely live up to their billing. Missed last game but going by comments here from neutrals, it was an exciting finish but standard of play was middling. I suppose if it's competitive, that'll be the best of it.

The Rooster

maestroamado wrote: »

It seems to me you do not understand as you seem to just see Dublin and i really do not care who wins, its just my opinion of what i see.
Mayo/Dublin bad example in my opinion, i agree Dublin were great in the first 20 mins of second half but Mayo just folded which is difficult to understand. I seen a few of the Dublin games this year, if the result is obvious before the game i do not watch any of the games as no point.
I certainly hope that Kerry or no other County dominate football going forward as bad for the game.
I notice the bosses had the wisdom to delete a few posts.
We will agree to disagree on Saturday result but it should be a cracker...

That's a different point

You said:
Dublin are very athletic but they have literally nobody who can score from play more than 30 metres out.

That's factually incorrect.

Kerry and Mayo have shown that matching Dublin is well within reach.
While Dublin have won 4 in a row, they really shouldn't have. Mayo were way better than is in the 2016 final but were very unfortunate with the two OGs. In 2017 I think they most probably would have won but for Vaughan's stupid red card.

2018 was our only easy All Ireland, and honestly that was down to Mayo dropping off a cliff that year and Kerry being too young/inexperienced. Tyrone and Donegal are trying their best (and may have the odd upset in them), but don't quite have enough quality and sometimes hamper themselves with questionable tactics.

Kerry could easily have won on Sep 1 and may or may not win on Saturday. But it's a bit lazy to say we're miles better than anyone else. And if Mayo and Kerry have been capable of beating us, there's no reason why Galway, Cork, Kildare and Meath can't produce challenging teams as well. I think there's too little analysis and too many excuses on why those teams cannot produce a top class panel of 30 players.

In his resignation letter, Kevin Walsh tried to highlight reasons why Galway aren't quite at the top table. Very telling that the Galway County Board initial reaction to was to sweep it under the carpet (they, literally, deleted it from his statement, before being forced to put it back in). Still very little proper media examination of what exactly he was talking about and why the County Board wanted it deleted.

rm75

maestroamado wrote: »

Well the best game of football i seen this year was Donegal v Kerry.
This throws out your thoery. Dublin are very athletic but they have literally nobody who can score from play more than 30 metres out.

Can only assume you've only watched the drawn game as Mannion has been knocking them over from everywhere all year.

The standard wasnt great in the drawn game IMO. Exciting finish right enough.

IRE60

anyone know what time the team is announced?

Matt Bianco

Around 5.55pm tomorrow for the parade - anything before that is clickbait or speculation

MayoAreMagic

ArielAtom wrote: »

It either is or is not an advantage. It has been said one of Dublins advantage is numerical on several occasions. Which is it?

It is an advantage. But the expectation of having every team with the exact same population is impossible and nigh on ridiculous. There is a critical mass at play here where counties can be reasonably competitive with each other, which is relative to the other populations. It is trial and error to find it truth be told. This can be effected by interest in the sport, which is why china are crap at soccer.
I dont think the people outside Dublin are that unreasonable, that they would insist on dublin teams having exactly the average population and no more, they are more reasonable than that, even if dubs dont display the same reasonable attitude, as your response displays.

RoyalCelt

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I have already given my opinions on this line of thought on this thread on numerous occasions.
To me that millions argument is a perpetuated fallacy especially, when given as the sole reason for Dublin's success.
As I have said previously there are major holes in the argument.
To me, it is no coincidence that when Dublin returned to the u21 competition and treated it seriously - that it has contributed to the success of the senior team.
Much like Kerry did in the 70's /90's Tyrone in the 00's
Obviously an exceptional crop of players from these eras also helped - which is the same situation Dublin find themselves in now.
But as I have stated in this thread I believe the conveyor belt of talent is slowing down.

Plus if this great Dublin team did not emerge football would be much worse off for it - Jim McGuinness style with Donegal would still have been in vogue.
Dublin have changed the landscape of gaelic football forever and the sport will forever be thankful they did so.
The success the Kerry team is having is owed a lot to thier aping of Dublin's tactics, 'go for it attack' - invest in youth - it got Kerry five minor titles in a row. Go back to the skills of the game as Kerry players are renowned for.
Also it is clear from Sunday that the Kerry senior team now ape Dublin's tactics they push up high and are brave.

If Dublin, Jim Gavin, these exceptional group of players did not appear as the stars aligned where would Gaelic football be today?
It is clear even Kerry are learning from watching the best.

Major holes in your argument as well. This Jim Gavin style you speak of was used the year before he took over by Pat Gilroy.

The current Jim Gavin style is very similar to Donegal 2012/14 where they defended in big numbers and counter attacked in numbers.

If people admit Dublin were 5-10 in the country pre financial doping then they don't think its the only reason they are good as Dublin were already a top 10 team. It's like saying drugs are the only reason an athlete is good. It might have helped him to #1 but even without them he'd probably finished high in the rankings.

I expect Dublin to win the replay comfortably and next year I think they'll win the final by a bigger margin. I'm fearful for the womans game too. Dublin should win again this year and if they do I'd expect them to cruise the next 3 or 4 at least. With the massive underage boom thanks to the financial investment in Dublin and population growth the Dublin ladies will become unbeatable before long. Shame.

blanch152

RoyalCelt wrote: »

The current Jim Gavin style is very similar to Donegal 2012/14 where they defended in big numbers and counter attacked in numbers.

I

I don't know whether you watch games in the flesh or on the television, but the two styles could not be more different.

Late in the game against Kerry, Cluxton was marking the Kerry full-forward because 14-man Dublin had pushed up so far on Kerry.

On the opposition kickout, Dublin (and Kerry) push up so hard that they leave their full-back line exposed. When it works you win opposition ball, when it doesn't you have the McCaffrey goal. McGuinness never did and never would employ a tactic like that.

In defence, from the throw-in, McGuinness teams immediately funnelled back. Gavin's team see the first minute as a scoring opportunity because the opposition have had to keep six players upfield. Again, a big difference.

Where you think you see similarities is when the opposition retain the ball from the press and play across their 45. The Dublin team can't keep up a non-stop press so after two to three minutes drop back and form a packed defence. Over time the two or three forwards left up front also gradually drop back, so occasionally you end up with all 15 behind the ball. However, that is only twice or three times in a game, compared with the non-stop blanket defence used by McGuinness.

If anything sets this Dublin team aside from the rest, it is the game management ability, to react to what is happening in front of them on the pitch, and adapt their play if necessary. Dean Rock can play as a full-forward on the edge of the square for 10-15 minutes, yet seconds later can be tacking on his own 21, as Dublin change mode and gear.

To sum it up, Dublin can resemble Donegal for maybe five to ten minutes of a game, but that is often to give themselves a breather or to protect a big lead.

rm75

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Major holes in your argument as well. This Jim Gavin style you speak of was used the year before he took over by Pat Gilroy.

The current Jim Gavin style is very similar to Donegal 2012/14 where they defended in big numbers and counter attacked in numbers.

If people admit Dublin were 5-10 in the country pre financial doping then they don't think its the only reason they are good as Dublin were already a top 10 team. It's like saying drugs are the only reason an athlete is good. It might have helped him to #1 but even without them he'd probably finished high in the rankings.

I expect Dublin to win the replay comfortably and next year I think they'll win the final by a bigger margin. I'm fearful for the womans game too. Dublin should win again this year and if they do I'd expect them to cruise the next 3 or 4 at least. With the massive underage boom thanks to the financial investment in Dublin and population growth the Dublin ladies will become unbeatable before long. Shame.

Do you think it likely that they will dominate to the extent of winning 11 AI's in 12 years ?!!!!

Would you be "fearful" for the womans game were that to occur !!

ArielAtom

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It is an advantage. But the expectation of having every team with the exact same population is impossible and nigh on ridiculous. There is a critical mass at play here where counties can be reasonably competitive with each other, which is relative to the other populations. It is trial and error to find it truth be told. This can be effected by interest in the sport, which is why china are crap at soccer.
I dont think the people outside Dublin are that unreasonable, that they would insist on dublin teams having exactly the average population and no more, they are more reasonable than that, even if dubs dont display the same reasonable attitude, as your response displays.

Thank you for clearing up your previous post. At no stage did I mention parity of numbers. You made a statement and now you have changed your stance.

Paulzx

rm75 wrote: »

Do you think it likely that they will dominate to the extent of winning 11 AI's in 12 years ?!!!!

Would you be "fearful" for the womans game were that to occur !!

Exactly. No one gave a sh*^te when the Cork ladies absolutely ruled ladies football for a decade. Where were the doomsday merchants then? Oh....of course...it wasn't the Dubs so it wasn't an issue

MayoAreMagic

ArielAtom wrote: »

Thank you for clearing up your previous post. At no stage did I mention parity of numbers. You made a statement and now you have changed your stance.

But I havent changed my stance. Massive population differences are an advantage. I simply fleshed out the point for you

Bonniedog

Good to see you getting into the match day spirit.

If you'd seen the 1927 Yankees you'd probably have given out about the Bambino not having his shirt tucked in :-)

Enjoy.

Titzon Toast

Best team ever. On to 6 now.

alswearengen

Congratulations Dublin on winning 5 in a row in an amateur competition with professional level funding. Fair play lads.

Padre_Pio

Kerry had two chances to take them down.

Better team won.

hunter164

alswearengen wrote: »

Congratulations Dublin on winning 5 in a row in an amateur competition with professional level funding. Fair play lads.

Maybe if you say it again people will care!

UP THE DUBS

alswearengen

hunter164 wrote: »

Maybe if you say it again people will care!

UP THE DUBS

Some Dub mod deleted it from the other thread.

doc_17

Cluxton said little. Prominence given to AIG. That’s a interesting. And very apt. A joke

SharpshooterTom

Simo08 wrote: »

Fair ****s to Dublin we'll never see the likes again

We will probably will, Dublin's dominance is here to stay.

odyssey06

alswearengen wrote: »

Congratulations Dublin on winning 5 in a row in an amateur competition with professional level funding. Fair play lads.

An assault on language that fails if you understand what professional means.

And even if you dont, you would also have to be ignorant of Kerry having a 7 million euro centre of excellence.

Padre_Pio

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

His point cant be denied. No need to take it so personally

You don't win 5 in a row purely on cash.

Serious talent and commitment in that team. A man down 2 weeks ago and they still held off Kerry.

odyssey06

doc_17 wrote: »

Cluxton said little. Prominence given to AIG. That’s a interesting. And very apt. A joke

Did Kerry Group forget to put their logo on the Kerry jerseys? Or did they get it for free?
GAA counties have sponsors. Who pay money. Gosh.

odyssey06

GOAT. GOAT. GOAT.

doc_17

odyssey06 wrote: »

doc_17 wrote: »

Cluxton said little. Prominence given to AIG. That’s a interesting. And very apt. A joke

Did Kerry Group forget to put their logo on the Kerry jerseys? Or did they get it for free?
GAA counties have sponsors. Who pay money. Gosh.

No. No. But Dublin get it for MORE. MUCH MORE. And if sponsorship is important then then the more of it you have the better. But forget about that then....what about home advantage? Is that a factor?

Hammer Archer

alswearengen wrote: »

Some Dub mod deleted it from the other thread.

Ha! Take a look at my avatar and maybe you’ll realize how stupid that post is.
Also, maybe don’t comment on moderation on thread or next up is a ban.

Simo08

Yer salty enough lads. Great achievement from Dublin. Kerry should probably dominate the next decade with a young team and all the underage success, I wonder will the same whinging follow them as followed the dubs. As for the mayo fella replying to me, enjoy next decade he'll win no all Ireland

SharpshooterTom

Simo08 wrote: »

Kerry should probably dominate the next decade with a young team and all the underage success

Nah I think Dublin can do to All Ireland's what New Zealand currently do to the Rugby Championship.

odyssey06

doc_17 wrote: »

No. No. But Dublin get it for MORE. MUCH MORE. And if sponsorship is important then then the more of it you have the better. But forget about that then....what about home advantage? Is that a factor?

Not much. Nothing like playing in front of 90 percent of your own fans in a stadium the other team plays in once a year.

When you consider how many times Kerry have played in Croke Park, how many Kerry ppl live in Dublin and how many Kerry fans were in Croke Park it is a slight advantage but not the game changer it is in other sports.