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NBP part II

oscarBravo

The old NBP thread had hit the 10,000-post threshold that makes the boards.ie hamsters cry, so here's a shiny new one.

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Pique

KOR101 wrote: »

Broadband roll-out contract won't be signed in time for Ploughing as was promised

https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/broadband-rollout-contract-wont-be-signed-in-time-for-ploughing-as-was-promised-38483708.html

Goddammit!!

ussjtrunks

It honestly feels like this will never get signed off on, they keep delaying it by finding new ways to push it back, its very frustrating as even providers that used to be good aren't able to keep up with todays internet demands and most are seeing evening speeds of 3-4mb. As a stopgap they could atleast try to bring a fibre connection to every rural tower so people wont get truly awful speeds but they can't even do that. God help us if they avoid certain areas due to imagine "serving" the area.

Messer1

allanpkr wrote: »

Total foolhardy. What does govn know about running fibre broadband and what com co. Would ever get involved if they could own it. Its been a long difficult process to make sure taxpayers money is safe guarded from the likes of eir and type who dropped out only cause the conditions were to strict ie 150 gb increasing to 500 etc etc . We are nearly at end of process and for the life of me do not understand people like you true motive to start process over again

The gov wouldn't run the rollout - a SPV would be established and use contractors.

KOR101

Broadband roll-out contract won't be signed in time for Ploughing as was promised

https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/broadband-rollout-contract-wont-be-signed-in-time-for-ploughing-as-was-promised-38483708.html

[Deleted User]

Ultimanemo wrote: »

You only see reviews from people who have slow speeds, people who have good connection "They don't talk about it"

Actually you will, if you read the thread, but they then turn out to have the same issues as everyone else once their area is at full capacity.

I did consider them myself but at the time two things stopped me.
1. The 20 GB download limit
2. I was told that I would have to cut down a large tree to get a proper signal.

I was told at the time (3 years back) that the limit might be increased, I understand that this has come about and some people in the thread stated that they were able to go over the original limit with out being throttled while others were.

The tree was an issue due to the cost of having it felled, as the cheapest quote was 3000 euro. I even had an inlaw who used to do this type of work have a look and they confirmed that the quotes were accurate.

However a neighbor less than 300 meters from us got their service at the same time and they have experienced the same issues with the speed dropping to nearly single digit levels as everyone else.

Ultimanemo

DubInMeath wrote: »

From reading the imagine thread your lucky to be getting the speed you are in the evening, some are getting less than 2 mbps

You only see reviews from people who have slow speeds, people who have good connection "They don't talk about it"

Gonzo

rodge123 wrote: »

A quick browse of Imagines open job positions tells you all you need to know about them.
A bunch of smoke and mirror cowboys!
Digital Marketing Manager, Social Media Role, Videographer, frontend Developer.

My speeds this evening with them.

Imagine easily has the best marketing team of any internet service provider in Ireland. They post new videos every day, post screenshots, maps, someone has to make videos of the vans, they respond only to those who can't get the service or those who are very happy with the product, they delete comments and some screenshots from customers with poor speeds. They hand out promotional material in supermarkets and centras, they post articles on their miracle product and 5g and drum the 5g into customers till the cows come home. They run competitions to win tickets and hotel trips, they update their website frequently with statistics and lies. Eir/Vodaphone/Digiewb etc barely post a few times a week in comparison. I am not surprised they continue to expand their team of social media experts, videographers and web developers.

If only they put this much effort into the quality of service and customer support.

rodge123

A quick browse of Imagines open job positions tells you all you need to know about them.
A bunch of smoke and mirror cowboys!
Digital Marketing Manager, Social Media Role, Videographer, frontend Developer.

My speeds this evening with them.

[Deleted User]

Ultimanemo wrote: »

I do get 150 Mbps easily 5 am

but now

From reading the imagine thread your lucky to be getting the speed you are in the evening, some are getting less than 2 mbps

allanpkr

Total foolhardy. What does govn know about running fibre broadband and what com co. Would ever get involved if they could own it. Its been a long difficult process to make sure taxpayers money is safe guarded from the likes of eir and type who dropped out only cause the conditions were to strict ie 150 gb increasing to 500 etc etc . We are nearly at end of process and for the life of me do not understand people like you true motive to start process over again

Gonzo

Ultimanemo wrote: »

I do get 150 Mbps easily 5 am

but now

a bit pointless having 150 at 5am and single digits in the evening when you need it the most. Clearly their network is grinding to a halt when everyone is online in the evenings. This is why Imagine are not fit for purpose and have no place in the NBP or any other national broadband scheme.

Ultimanemo

celticbhoy27 wrote: »

Haven't the government, rightly, came out already and said wireless isn't an option. The difference between the nbp and what imagine can offer is night and day. Speeds up to 150 my eye!

I do get 150 Mbps easily 5 am

but now

Messer1

My bite back. The entire NBP has become much too complicated from operational, financial and strategic perspectives. Too many players and moving parts made unnecessarily complicated by pivotal involvement of a private operator (with mere €220 mln investment). Very much favour the approach recommended by the UL professors at the Oireachtas Committee for full State ownership. This would do away with the 1,400 page contract designed to protect the State's €3 bn and make the whole roll-out process much simpler including defining, planning and managing the intervention area - specifically this could be redefined every 2-3 years in the light of progress, new developments etc.

ArrBee

Messer1 wrote: »

Surely the entire Mapping Exercise is flawed and deeply anti-competitive. The information required in a submission is ridiculously detailed for any small, ambitious ISP to provide, no provision is made for possible significant new entrants, or for changes of circumstances for larger operators (take-over, new strategy etc.). It appears that the proposed contractor will be compensated for any encroachment into the final intervention area. This would dampen the market as it means that taxpayers will pay for non-service as well as service from a new encroaching entrant.

OK, I'll bite.
Other than "not having an intervention", what do you see as possible solutions to that?

heavydawson

Last Friday was the original deadline for submissions to the department in the state-aid consultation process but operators were notified on Tuesday that the deadline was being extended to September 20. This means the contract is unlikely to be signed before September 30, as the map will have to be redrawn and the EU will have to approve it. The signing may not happen before the budget on October 8.

That was from a comment a few weeks ago in this thread

dashoonage

ussjtrunks wrote: »

Are we still on track for an announcement at the ploughing championship?

Yup still on track for ploughing 2020

heavydawson

ussjtrunks wrote: »

Are we still on track for an announcement at the ploughing championship?

I think the extra time allocated to allow the private sector to indicate where any future plans they have might encroach on the intervention area has pushed the final announcement into October.

ussjtrunks

Are we still on track for an announcement at the ploughing championship?

Messer1

Surely the entire Mapping Exercise is flawed and deeply anti-competitive. The information required in a submission is ridiculously detailed for any small, ambitious ISP to provide, no provision is made for possible significant new entrants, or for changes of circumstances for larger operators (take-over, new strategy etc.). It appears that the proposed contractor will be compensated for any encroachment into the final intervention area. This would dampen the market as it means that taxpayers will pay for non-service as well as service from a new encroaching entrant.

heavydawson

celticbhoy27 wrote: »

Haven't the government, rightly, came out already and said wireless isn't an option. The difference between the nbp and what imagine can offer is night and day. Speeds up to 150 my eye!

#5GMeHole

celticbhoy27

Haven't the government, rightly, came out already and said wireless isn't an option. The difference between the nbp and what imagine can offer is night and day. Speeds up to 150 my eye!

KOR101

"The department engages with fixed wireless operators through correspondence and meetings and has requested the necessary technical, financial and commercial information from those operators which would allow the department to assess whether their networks should be considered as high-speed broadband and excluded from the [NBP] intervention area," the spokeswoman said.

The precision of the number (234,092) of claimed amber premises covered, must mean Imagine is going to do something.

ednwireland

Pique wrote: »

As wireless was ruled out as being suitable for the terms of the NBP on the basis of speed and consistency etc (other than in edge cases), does that mean that wireless availability by commercial operators in the intervention area is ignored by the govt and the NBP will still be applied to those areas?

I would've thought so tbh. Seems like imagine just rattling the can.

i would hope so, its up to wireless operators toup their game and keep htheir customers - although the only one i have experience of you would only use if you have no alternative.

The Cush

allanpkr wrote: »

5G is the biggest con for rural broadband. If you struggle to get 4g on your mobile 5g will be worse. 5g is mainly a city broadband with many areials needed ,

Correct for the current 3.6 GHz band but the mobile operators will be looking at the more rural friendly 700 MHz 5G band which is due to be auctioned next year, Imagine most likely will not be bidding for any of it due to price.

allanpkr

5G is the biggest con for rural broadband. If you struggle to get 4g on your mobile 5g will be worse. 5g is mainly a city broadband with many areials needed , far more than you would be allowed in rural ireland imagine needs to stop conning the people on broadband.

KOR101

Headshot wrote: »

So does that mean NBP wont beable to go to those 800,000 even through Imagine 5G is bs

Good old Imagine, such a shame excuse for "broadband".

No, all it means is that Imagine is entitled to apply to enter a Commitment contract. We will know by September 20th if they are going to do that. It will certainly fail for not meeting the technical requirements, but it could delay things. And, they could challenge any negative decision in the courts, where it will also probably fail, but again delay things further.

Headshot

So does that mean NBP wont beable to go to those 800,000 even through Imagine 5G is bs

Good old Imagine, such a shame excuse for "broadband".

The Cush

Peter O'Dwyer piece in the SBP - Government unsure if state aid issues could arise over broadband plan for "serviced" areas

The Department of Communications has claimed it is unable to determine if existing broadband services could create state aid issues for the National Broadband Plan, as it does not have enough information to hand.

Fixed wireless broadband provider Imagine last week said it had delivered reliable, 150Mbps broadband to 800,000 homes and businesses across the country.

This figure included 234,000 of the 540,000 rural premises earmarked for intervention by the state through the multibillion-euro NBP.

The government is restricted from using state aid, such as through the NBP, to address a market failure in areas where private operators have delivered broadband already or have plans to do so soon.

When asked if Imagine's 5G broadband satisfied the commercial investment criteria set down by the department, a spokeswoman said the department did not know.

"The department engages with fixed wireless operators through correspondence and meetings and has requested the necessary technical, financial and commercial information from those operators which would allow the department to assess whether their networks should be considered as high-speed broadband and excluded from the [NBP] intervention area," the spokeswoman said.

The spokeswoman said no submission had been received to date from a fixed operator that would "justify a change to the intervention area".

"Following the consultation, the department will conclude and confirm the scope of the intervention area prior to deployment of the NBP state intervention. The department will carefully consider all responses and the outcome of its assessment, along with non-confidential copies of the submissions, will be published prior to contract award," she added.

Ultimanemo

KOR101 wrote: »

Imagine says it can deliver high-speed broadband to 800,000 rural homes

“ This includes 234,000 homes and businesses which faced a wait of five to seven years to be connected and where Imagine is now the only provider in the area,” he said.

The current EU state aid rules restrict governments from funding services where they are offered commercially by private operators. It is not clear if Imagine’s incursion into the NBP intervention area will affect the plan.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/imagine-says-it-can-deliver-high-speed-broadband-to-800-000-rural-homes-1.4009250

https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/imagine-says-its-connecting-rural-ireland-to-5g-broadband-38472184.html

They say: Capable of delivering broadband speeds of up to 150 megabits per second.
I have Imagine and I do get 150 Mbps or even higher but that is only around 5 am , in the evenings it is 20 to 30 Mbps on an average day and much slower sometimes

BandMember

KOR101 wrote: »

Water under the bridge on EIR anyway, and Imagine can hardly meet the technical requirements to succeed with a Committment Agreement proposal. There might be a business case for them to try to delay it, pushing it into a FF administration, for example. NBP is still much more likely than not at this stage IMO.

Imagine are such a horrific sh*tshow that even Timmy the Tool knows better than to suggest or promote them as an option.

Given his track record, that says everything.