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How to get some self respect

LegacyUser

I'm looking for a bit of advice on how to get some self respect with a guy. Who I desperately fancy and who is using words of not interested and actions (not sexual) of someone who is. Also early 40s here, just inexperienced.

I've known him many many years we got together while on holidays last summer and a few times after that but since Christmas we've been "just friends". But not, we spent the summer together (both off), where except for the sleeping together (because he doesn't want a relationship), we were/are practically in relationship including planning for future things.

I brought it to a head and he again used the words. I'm not interested. Great, so now I know for sure. But he's almost straight back to where we were. Caring messages, phone calls for hours, inviting me to dinner etc. He's hiding behind, they are just actions of a friend, however he knows how I feel and all my friends have validated his actions are not those of just a friend.

It feels nice, really nice, but it's not healthy. I guess I'm being used for attention. (Yes I get I've been using him for that too but I want more and that's not on offer).

So.... please don't say. Just stop. The added problem is he is a family friend. I will forever see him, I want to remain civil if not friendly to him. I enjoy his company, we clearly get on, I'd just like to dial it down a little.

I've tried creating a bit of distance but I'm still getting messages and calls. If I don't respond I feel rude.

I can't change him but I can change my reaction and interaction.

So what do I do. How do I with my interactions with him create some boundaries?

I'd still like to go to dinner, but maybe every few months not once a week. I'd still like to chat every month or so, not twice a week.

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rainbowtrout

Lostinlove wrote: »

Cons
1. he's just upped the game cause he can feel me pulling away
2. He used words again, "I'm not interested in being with anyone. I'm content on my own."

I'm going to continue communication on my terms. I will be in his presence again in 3 weeks for the weekend (in my house, so I can't not go). So I'll give it til mid October for him to be honest.

Just an addition. He told you exactly what he wants. He doesn't want you.

And he has been honest, he's been honest all along, only you are not listening. They say insanity is repeating the same action over and over again and expecting different results. He will not change. Why wait until mid October, you're just giving yourself another 5 weeks of him dangling a carrot that you can never reach, when October comes, you will come up with another excuse to give him another chance. Meanwhile he will be delighted with himself that he can treat you like absolute shite and you keep coming back for more.

Scarinae

Lostinlove wrote: »

Cons
1. he's just upped the game cause he can feel me pulling away
2. He used words again, "I'm not interested in being with anyone. I'm content on my own."

Listen to what he is telling you OP, he is telling you that you will never have a relationship with him.

You deserve someone who really wants to be with you!

LegacyUser

leggo wrote: »

OP you’ve seen the scenario that was described to you play out exactly as it was described it would. Keep in mind that was spelled out under the presumption that he’s not that into you and is just using you as a game/easy bit of attention on-demand.

So I’m going to fast forward a good bit to how this story ends if you don’t take control of it today:

He leaves you, out of nowhere, maybe ghosts you completely because he doesn’t respect you or think that much about you. Then you find out he’s with someone else and all of the “I don’t want anyone” scraps he was feeding you were lies to keep you hooked and thinking you could change him. And you’ve no recourse because he’s got what he wanted and now is done with you completely. There’s no more games to be played because he wants nothing from you anymore so it’s just you left, alone, having done nothing to deserve it but only watching as he goes and lives the life you wanted with him with someone else. Whether he deserves that or not is irrelevant, you find out life doesn’t work that way and will scream at yourself for not acting now when you had a measure of control over the situation.

It’s not flattering but it might open your eyes: years back my friends and I used to call girls who did that “**** me til you love me” girls. It’s a tale old as time and it ends with you getting seriously hurt. There’s no other endgame in-play here. Be careful.

I'd make one change to that story. I really believe he doesn't want anyone right now. I believe that is how he really feels. The story ends :

He leaves you, out of nowhere, you'll have one conversation where he dominates the conversation, gives a list of reasons including "but I've always told you". Then you find out he’s with someone else and all of the “I don’t want anyone” where what he was telling you because you weren't his one, and he didn't feel what he needed with you to make himself available. And you’ve no recourse because he’s got what he wanted and now is done with you completely. There’s no more games to be played because he wants nothing from you anymore so it’s just you left, alone, having done nothing to deserve it but only watching as he goes and lives the life you wanted with him with someone else. Whether he deserves that or not is irrelevant, you find out life doesn’t work that way and will scream at yourself for not acting now when you had a measure of control over the situation.

@bitofabind you've hit the nail on the head

Thank you all for reminding me. For being gentle with me. I KNOW but I don't want to. I really do believe that he's as lost as what I am. I really don't believe this is an intentional game but I know that doesn't change the advice nor the outcome.

LegacyUser

leggo wrote: »

There’s no other endgame in-play here. Be careful.

I don't understand how there can be no other endgame. I almost jest, cause it's almost like a bad movie, but you do see stories of things working out with odd and strange beginnings. Is it just cause it's so rare that the hurt is the only end game?

qwerty13

I’m sorry, but he is in his backside as lost as you are.

He might not know what he wants, but he knows it’s not you, and will never be you. He’s told you that up front and repeatedly. I know I’m pointing out harsh reality, but bloody hell OP, do you need him to physically stamp on your heart before you believe what he has told you umpteen times?

You’re a handy friend who panders to him. The ‘girlfriend experience’ while he rejects you constantly, and you give him the friendship / listening / relationship space in your life.

He is behaving like a selfish plonker, but god you are so enabling him.

punisher5112

Op
You are well worth more then this....

What a fool to let you go but he had a long time ago the way he treated you

Move on and go after someone that's looking for the same thing....

There really is plenty out therej.

leggo

Lostinlove wrote: »

I don't understand how there can be no other endgame. I almost jest, cause it's almost like a bad movie, but you do see stories of things working out with odd and strange beginnings. Is it just cause it's so rare that the hurt is the only end game?

The reason it’s the only endgame in play is because he’s telling you all this, you’re just choosing not to listen in favour of what you want to happen.

Mind Hunter 85

Hi

Op I identify with a lot about what you're saying. You question why he tries so hard to keep in contact with you. Maybe that deep down he values you. Sadly he doesn't. I had a similar situation like another poster pointed out. He may be lost , he may be struggling in some ways in life, he may not know what he wants but he knows it's not you.
I'm guessing you can't see that as you are in what I call 'the deep' you're emotionally invested. You won't see clearly until you go 'no contact' with him for months in my opinion.

In my own case, 2 months of no contact with a guy who didnt want a relationship but I had allowed myself to be used for nearly a year and a half. I thought he must feel something deep down but I was kidding myself.
I projected how I felt onto him.

There are three things that can happen

1. you and he continue the 'arrangement' the way things are defined by HIS wants and needs and that might go on for many more months or years or maybe indefinetely, no one knows.
But you won't get what you want a relationship and to be valued the way you value and care for him.

2. He eventually tires of you or finds someone new and he leaves you dumped except you haven't been dumped as you werent in a 'relationship' thats cold I know but its a strong possiblity.

3. You realise that you deserve better and walk away, you're already realising this but you doubt, as you don't want to let go of hope. Hope is precious its also painful.

I had to let go of hope to disconnect, no signs, physical affection or emotional connection in the moment mean that he secretly he wants to be with you.

Whether it's an intentional game or not doesn't matter.
If he 'knew' that he also felt something could happen with you in the future he would have told you.
The excuses such as 'I dont want to be in a relationship now' may be true,
but they keep things where they are, as in comfortable for him,as you think it's not you thats the issue, it's him and there is a tiny glimmer of HOPE .

He get's you without the commitment and this means in his heart he knows you're not someone he would consider spending his life with or investing in a relationship.

Blow out the candle on this hope for what could be.
It will be painful, in my case a lot of tears and they still come and go, but it will set you free.
When you let go, I guarantee you will feel better after a few months you will have taken back the power and hold he has over you and your life, hopes and dreams.
Maybe he didnt ask for it but by giving it still exists.

rainbowtrout

Lostinlove wrote: »

I don't understand how there can be no other endgame. I almost jest, cause it's almost like a bad movie, but you do see stories of things working out with odd and strange beginnings. Is it just cause it's so rare that the hurt is the only end game?

Because you would like to believe that this is a fairytale or Hollywood ending and he will see the error of his ways and declare undying love for you and now sees how short sighted in missing that the love of his life was in front of him all the time??? Nope, not gonna happen. It's played out exactly as everyone predicted. No one can tell you to accept it and move on, you have to be willing to do it as well.

ElizaBennett

You have to be practical too with your approach and find a way to make the no contact work for you. If it helps you to fantasise that he'll miss you terribly after a few weeks or months of zero contact and come running, then use that if you have to. It's not ideal and it's not the approach you should ideally take, but if it gives you the motivation to start off the no contact then use what you have to use to at least begin that process, in the hope that after a few weeks you'll start to realise you're better off and the clouds will clear and you'll see a future free of him and he'll start to lose his hold. Then you wont care if he ever comes running back or not and if he does you'll see him for the insincere, flaky, immature, emotional mess that he is.

bitofabind

ASTA20’s post is so painfully true and real as an example of what is a really crucial life lesson to most of us at some stage.

You’re a very trusting, giving person OP and that’s the upside here. That’s also probably how you’ve come to be treated this way for so long. Your boundaries are down because you believe so much that this man has the same values and motivations as you. He doesn’t. People are different. Many are narcissists who take advantage of other’s empathy and good nature. Some will use you as an ego boost, some will take the feel-good stuff in the moment precisely because it feels good and your feelings are immaterial to them. Others are emotionally unavailable and you’ll be drawn to them because of your own experiences with relationships going back to your childhood.

It helps to apply logic and rationale and use your thinking rather than your feeling brain in these dating scenarios because of this. Your feelings will overlook every red flag going because you’re human and perhaps have spent years longing for love and belonging.

Here are some questions that I try to work through when my feelings are clouding things:
What story am I telling myself about this situation?
Where’s the evidence to support this belief I have about this situation?
What’s this situation REALLY about to me?
How do my current beliefs and behaviours help me in this situation? Do they help me at all?
Where will I be in five months if I don’t change my beliefs and behaviours? What about 5 years? Do they help me to reach my goals at life.

Be brutal with yourself here and strict about the next steps you take. It’s the greatest kindness you can offer yourself in the long run xx

Gerianam

Do not waste another moment of your precious life on this man. There is someone beautiful and loving out there for you OP, free your heart and mind to find him. Leave this clown behind.

LegacyUser

I did it!

And I was blamed (as it was said would happen). He is totally innocent in anything that happened, cause he TOLD me.

I've cried a lot. But I've found so many positives about this.

1. I opened up my heart and it got hurt but I'll live and love again
2. I don't regret trying, not one bit. I tried and that's better than not and wondering. Maybe the stop button needs to be learnt more
3. Trust my gut!
4. I know that self value will help in the future to not completely and utterly enable these types of situations, but I'm not entirely sure how to get better at having value for myself. I think there's a therapist needed here.

Thank you all again for your kind language, honesty and being blunt about it. You absolutely helped me see clarity in the situation. Again thank you though for using very kind language, there's no one who made me feel that any of this was my making. I was able to see though that me enabling the situation was my choice!

leggo

Well done OP. You're going to feel better and better about yourself for doing this on your own terms as time goes on. There will be moments of loneliness and weakness where it'll be easy to default, but hold steady and remember this feeling. There'll be others who'll see you and like you for who you are, trust in that whenever you feel low, and this decision in itself will help give you strength. Well done again.

rainbowtrout

Well done OP. You will feel better in the long run. It is amazing how predictable people like this are. And you will recognise it in men in the future so you can cut your losses if you encounter anyone like him again.

bitofabind

Sounds like you're moving in the right direction OP.

One thing I'll warn is you can ride on the adrenaline of making decisions like this for a short time, but inevitably crash and hit a real low once the reality of cutting him out of your life sinks in.

It's really hard to let go of hope when you're emotionally invested in someone, especially over a longer time period, and you'll be tempted to get in touch, you'll second guess yourself, and you'll just generally feel really low and heartbroken for a while. Don't worry if you do. That's normal, you're human.

Try to ramp up the self-care these weeks, make sure you're sleeping enough, eating well and exercising and staying in touch with friends and family. The sadness passes quicker in the end than you expect.

Calypso Realm

OP I'm so glad to read you managed to extricate yourself from this guy!

Scenarios like this remind me of a receptionist who worked for my Dad years ago. A lovely, kind and very attractive lady who had been seeing this guy for years. Both met in their twenties. In those days people dated for a few years and then invariably got married. All except her.... that is!

Over the years, numerous wedding dates were set and invitations sent out but on each and every occasion, something happened which meant the wedding had to be 'postponed', for one reason or another. Once he fell 'ill' ...another time something else 'happened' him etc It was glaringly obvious to all and sundry what was going on, but she refused to give up on him, always 'sympathetic' to all the excuses he came up with. Even as a kid at the time thought all this was very odd indeed! She used to confide all this to my mum who found it hard to comprehend why she just couldn't get it and continued to date him! In additon, she'd always wanted children. I heard nothing more about them until more recently.

Fast forward to a few years ago when I met him (the boyfriend) outside a venue after an event. He came up and spoke to me and informed me he was waiting for his wife to give her a lift home. I rem thinking to myself 'Oh, they must have eventually got married'. However, when he introduced me to a woman (with a couple of kids in tow) I'd never seen before (there was no mistaking it, it wasn't his ex) I could hardly contain my surprise!

I later heard he'd met and married this new lady, who was a lot younger than him, in the space of eighteen months. At this point his ex would have been in herfifties when he left her to pursue and marry someone else. She'd in effect wasted so many years of her life on a man who had no intention of ever taking things further. So sad. In addition, they'd both lived on the same road so when he married and new wife moved in, she had all that to contend with as well. And she was still single to boot....

A bit of an extreme case, I know but it goes to show what can happen when one allows onself to be strung along!

LegacyUser

I've been sucked back in again.

I was doing so well. I was really starting to feel good about the situation and also good that family events would be fine and we'd likely be able to be friends at some points way in the future.
I stopped answering all messages, answered a few. Civil. All great. I'm no 1. I matter and I'm the most important.

The family event went off without any issues. A drunk friend may of had a go at him. I thought it kinda funny. I didn't feel the need to care for him beyond any of the other guest in my house.
There was a bit of his family drama. I gave him a kick up the hole and sent him on his merry way. I checked in with all the siblings the following week. Pat on my back. Job done and back to putting myself first. 2 weeks go by. A few messages, I suspect I ignored them, can't recall I delete most stuff so I don't go over and over it.

All sounds good so far.

Sunday. Message can I call over. He was very nearly issued a PFO but it was nice out I wanted to go for a walk so I said yes.
He hadn't intended on it but he let slip that he was in the middle of an anxiety melt down. I we spoke. I made him stay longer than intended to work through things, I worked out a plan with him for the problem. I also got to get in a few examples about what he's done to me. He's agreed to go to therapy to understand why he seeks to make emotional connections with no follow through and others.

I can say the following.
1. He is completely oblivious about what he has done to me.
2. He doesn't know he's stringing me along. He's just oblivious to how things are.
3. He's feels guilt at hurting me but doesn't understand anything about it

This is endearing to me. Showing his vunerable side, his obliviousness I like it. For me it's attractive. Some people like them arrogant, I like them innocent.

Tonight I called to check he was okay. I know his anxiety melt downs usually take weeks to stir out. He tells me, it's done. I'm fine, you're amazing, I cannot even begin to explain how great I feel. You're wonderful. Gone since Monday AM after I woke. It's incredible.

This is flattering, OMG we are connecting and this is wonderful and if he gets help them he'll be able to commit to me. He'll get help and he'll be this amazing person and I won't wait for him but I will stand by him and help and...

Yes I am listening to what I am saying.
Hope is a terrible thing. Who am I kidding I'm saying I'm not waiting for him but I absolutely am. Who knows how long b he'll take to get through this and what's the driver to change if he has someone by his side filling his emotional connection.

Then I head into crazy territory..... he'll see, he'll realise how perfect I am for him if I go back to me.

I get it, he's getting all his needs met and I'm getting none. Yes I'll get dropped like a hot snot, cause he is seeking connection. I also don't and can't accept him three c way he is, there does need to be change and that's an issue.

I'm saying the right things, I know the right things and yet he's invited me to go visit this weekend and I've moving plans around to go see him. I hope that this works.

I hope it works out that when he's available then so am I but I won't wait. If I keep in contact I don't have headspace for anyone else

Whitestripe

He reeled you back in and he knows exactly what he is doing. It’s so easy to see when you aren’t involved. Please talk to someone about this who is supportive of your attempt to leave this behind.

It is deliberate and I can guarantee you that nothing will come out of this therapy idea of his.

I’m sorry you’re in this situation and hope you find the support you need to look after yourself, you deserve better than this.

rainbowtrout

I think it’s time to bow out of this thread. You’re going to keep repeating the same actions and expecting him to change.

One more time: he’s a master manipulator and has pulled the anxiety card to reel you back in and then it mysteriously is cured once he’s got you back.

He’s not going to change. He’s a nasty, selfish user. You’ll be back on here in 6 months asking what you can do to get him to commit to you and you’ll get the same advice you got on this thread. Get rid of him out of your life.

Sinus pain

Read what you wrote - he was suddenly cured- he’s having you on. You want this so much you want to believe it.
Only you can decide how many years of your life you want to give up for this man. How many good relationships possibly marriage you want to miss. How many opportunities to meet new people you want to give up. Is he really that great? Is he worth giving up any chance of happiness for?

LegacyUser

Lostinlove wrote: »

I'm saying the right things, I know the right things and yet he's invited me to go visit this weekend and I've moving plans around to go see him. I hope that this works.

I hope it works out that when he's available then so am I but I won't wait. If I keep in contact I don't have headspace for anyone else

Sorry what I mean by all this is these are the thoughts and feelings I am having right now, but I know that they are wrong.

If I really thought that that it would work out I'd actually not be back here, as that is totally disrespectful to the advice you've all given.

I'm saying this is how I feel, I know I've been reeled back in. The hope is back but I know I have to let it go again. Apologies if it came across as me looking for advice on how to get him back or to get it to work.

[Deleted User]

I actually thought OP,s reappearance this morning and her gushing post saying “i like them innocent” was a troll, and I still suspect it is.

Nobody could be that stupid, that needing of attention and the ensuing hurt and disappointment. Every time you go back you’re setting the bar lower and lower , deep down you know that. I’ve been that person. Unlike OP when I got out I stayed out ..........because I had developed self respect and I also developed anger. Anger is good . Why the hell should he have his cake and eat it? Why are you facilitating this? Think about it.

I’m out of this thread now, there’s only so much advice people can give. OP is an adult not a child so has to take responsibility for her own happiness.

SirChenjin

I can say the following.
1. He is completely oblivious about what he has done to me.
2. He doesn't know he's stringing me along. He's just oblivious to how things are.
3. He's feels guilt at hurting me but doesn't understand anything about it

That's all very convenient for him isn't it?
And now that he is aware of it, what is he going to do about it?

Sorry, OP, he is using you and you can't/ don't want to see it.
You deserve so much better than this, but it's your life so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm out too.
I'm not even sure what you want from the thread, tbh.

LolaJJ

Late to the party here but wanted to weigh in because of an incredibly similar situation I endured for 5 bloody years...

God, if I could just turn back time I'd have got rid of him after a month, what a waste of my life.

Same as you, he wasn't in the right headspace for a relationship but he blew hot and cold. I completely idolised him because the highs were so wonderful, and because of the lows I appreciated all of those highs far more than I should have....sadly, I only recognised this months after I finally cut the cord.

Like you, I would have bet my life on him genuinely not being able for/ready for/capable of being in a relationship. And I believed with all my heart that as soon as he was ready - it would be me and all of my suffering would be rewarded. I'd always prided myself on being a good judge of character and, like your guy, he was a bit broken, bad things had happened, it wasn't his fault etc etc.

Unfortnately what happened next was more hurtful than I ever could have anticipated. Following one of my several attempts to show some self respect (in the hope that he would *realise* how great I was) ultimately he agreed that he was hurting me too much and promised to leave me alone.

And, for once, he actually did.

Then, by chance I bumped in to one of his friends on a night out who apologised for how his mate had treated me, assuming I knew that for the last 2 years of my back and forth with this guy, he was actually in a relationship with someone....

A serious relationship.

And that poor girl had no idea about me either.

It was the most horrific thing I have ever endured but ultimately the best thing to ever happen to me.

FWIW, I'm now in a wonderful relationship with a great guy who only gives me the highs. It was easy from the start and I have never had to think up excuses or rationalise any of his beviour.

OP, just get out, it doesn't matter if you will see him again or you have mutual friends. This is your life, you chose who you give oxygen to. This is going to suck years from you and ultimately playing along and going back and forth with this guy is just post poning the inevitable heart break that you WILL eventually have to go through.

There are no excuses here. Someone who doesn't treat you with respect doesn't respect you.

When you are in a loving and functional relationship - the natural interaction is to try make your partner happy and give them what they need. He's telling you he won't and can't do that. Listen.

B0jangles

Guys, listen to the OP -she's describing all the misleading, hopeful, delusional thoughts that are flooding into her head - the ones she knows are wishful thinking, she's not actually talking about going back to this guy.

OP - you know you have to stay away from him - no texts, no chats, nothing. He's just going to keep on pushing your buttons and trying to manipulate you to right back to where you were. You're like a person trying to quit drinking who's letting themselves have just the odd little sip now and then when every sip sets off a massive craving to just down the whole bottle.

No more sipping!

Caryatnid

Lostinlove wrote: »

Some people like them arrogant, I like them innocent.

No. Just no.

For so many reasons.

tara73

OP, brave on you to post again and seek help!. As I read it you havn't really gone back to him/ let yourself reel in completely. You are on the verge of it and therefore looking for help again. Well done!

My advice is, naturally, no different from the others: Don't entertain this anymore.

Stop all contact again. It is actually like an addiction/addict having a fall-back. But that's waht it is, a fall-back. Accept it as this and draw the conclusion again: no contact anymore, block him everywhere wherever you can.

write him one firm, unambiguous text or mail, with explanation in shortness what's going on so he knows you see behind his game. something like: you try to reel me in again, not available for it, I will delete any mail or text from you without reading them so no point in contacting me. don't contact me in any form!

This will surely only work if you really want it. Otherwise I recommend more counselling in addition.

qwerty13

He’s not oblivious. He does understand. He just doesn’t give a flying proverbial about you, and never will.

And you are enabling his sh*tty behaviour, and doing the most major case of self-delusion that I’ve read in ages.

I’m out. Can’t be doing with this.

LegacyUser

I get why you are all annoyed. It's frustrating.

It's hard, it's really hard for me.
The irony is Monday night I'd written in my we gratitude diary (started to help with improving my self respect), that I was grateful I had developed the knowledge to see what was going on and that I was aware I was not putting myself first. As in that I could see I was being reeled back in and was aware that was happening. Awareness is the first step!

Change doesn't happen over night and I think it's wrong of some of you to expect that. I could have come in and said... I'm struggling I need more support and the result would have been different but the reality is the thoughts are the same. I decided to share them, to show the struggle.

However the reaction has given me pause for thought. It kinda scared me.

Thank you of course to those who got it and understood.

I'm feeling a lot better and stronger again.