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Nvidia RTX Discussion

K.O.Kiki

A new era in 3D graphics stands before us.

First-gen Raytracing GPUs:

Nvidia "Turing" - Quadro RTX 5000 / 6000 / 8000 (US$ 2'300 / 6'300 / 10'000)

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13214/nvidia-reveals-next-gen-turing-gpu-architecture
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13217/nvidia-announces-turing-powered-quadro-rtx-family

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tuxy

deceit wrote: »

I'm curious, unlike G-sync is their anything stopping AMD from using their own hardware acceleration on these games?

I don't think so. So far ray tracing titles on PC have used DX12 DXR so AMD would have access to DX12 development kits.
The problem is Navi was released very recently and it has no hardware accelerated DXR support. So if AMD decide to develop hardware for it, it will be a couple of years down the line.

jonerkinsella

tuxy wrote: »

I don't think so. So far ray tracing titles on PC have used DX12 DXR so AMD would have access to DX12 development kits.
The problem is Navi was released very recently and it has no hardware accelerated DXR support. So if AMD decide to develop hardware for it, it will be a couple of years down the line.

AMD have already. It's called Next gen consoles and they are coming next year in the many millions. Sony and Microsoft have already confirmed that the consoles will run RT.

K.O.Kiki

jonerkinsella wrote: »

AMD have already. It's called Next gen consoles and they are coming next year in the many millions. Sony and Microsoft have already confirmed that the consoles will run RT.

Sony/Microsoft also promised 4K gaming in the last generation, so... :pac:

Cuddlesworth

tuxy wrote: »

The problem is Navi was released very recently and it has no hardware accelerated DXR support. So if AMD decide to develop hardware for it, it will be a couple of years down the line.

5700-xt = 7nm 251mm²
RTX 2070 SUPER = 12nm 545mm²

As far as I know, if your selling a chip half the size on a smaller fab for near the same price, you make a lot more money per sale then your competitor.

Why would the start putting in dedicated hardware now, it will only chip away at their profit?

Cordell

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Sony/Microsoft also promised 4K gaming in the last generation, so... :pac:

And you can have a 4K screen connected to one of those no problem

That promise is that unspecific

tuxy

jonerkinsella wrote: »

AMD have already. It's called Next gen consoles and they are coming next year in the many millions. Sony and Microsoft have already confirmed that the consoles will run RT.

Navi has no processing units for rendering Ray tracing so it will be a software implimation in the same way GTX cards can run ray tracing.

Here's raytracing running on 1080ti

I just don't think the difference in visuals is worth such large drop in proformance. Especially when you consider how much they could increase visual effects using rastarisation. For the first few years of the new console it will be used sparinly mainly just to create hype, then later in years to come it will actually be viable.

Perhaps developers will be able to optimise the code over the comming years to get better results. AMD may develop cores for ray tracing on the next generation of cards and then release them in ps5 pro or X version of the now xbox. But whether they go the optimised software or dedicated hardware route it's years away, probably at least 3 years after the new consoles are released.

Cordell

Yes, Metro Exodus looks amazing with RT off and turning it on brings very little. and in that video there's a lot of water scenes, but they don't implement RT reflections at all. Control is the game you need to look at to see some real improvements.

tuxy

Cordell wrote: »

Yes, Metro Exodus looks amazing with RT off and turning it on brings very little. and in that video there's a lot of water scenes, but they don't implement RT reflections at all. Control is the game you need to look at to see some real improvements.

A GTX 1080ti can get 10 - 30 fps with RTX on in cortrol, if they could get it stable at 25 fps on navi do you think that would be an accecptable experiace for console?
Actully, maybe lower it to 24 fps so it can be called cinematic ray tracing.
Of course I'm joking but if 30 fps is accectable for most people on console would 25 fps really be that bad?
I think I've played GTA game on console in the past where the frame rate is sub 30 for large sections of the game.

Cordell

I'm not a frame rate fanatic but for me when it dips under 50 it really irks me.
Now, if you were to play at 30 fps cinematic ray tracing :pac: from the start maybe if can be acceptable for console people, in fact this was the norm not too long ago, 30fps capped on the last gen consoles.

tuxy

If people bustomers for the new consoles expect ray tracing then you could see deelepors go down the route of continuing to use checkerboard rendering and low frame rates. It was used last in the current gen with great success.
From a marketing point of veiw it might be the most sucnessful way to go.
20 - 30 fps in single player games with some limited ray tracing effects and then 60 fps in multiplayer games.

BloodBath

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

5700-xt = 7nm 251mm²
RTX 2070 SUPER = 12nm 545mm²

As far as I know, if your selling a chip half the size on a smaller fab for near the same price, you make a lot more money per sale then your competitor.

Why would the start putting in dedicated hardware now, it will only chip away at their profit?

A mature 7nm process should be cheaper. Early 7nm costs roughly twice as much as Nvidias mature 12nm process.

Lower yields on the 7nm process push the costs up but it should come down as the node matures.

Didn't we have a demo showing hardware accelerated ray tracing on amd hardware already using a vega 56 no less. Granted it was only reflections.

Venom

tuxy wrote: »

A GTX 1080ti can get 10 - 30 fps with RTX on in cortrol, if they could get it stable at 25 fps on navi do you think that would be an accecptable experiace for console?
Actully, maybe lower it to 24 fps so it can be called cinematic ray tracing.
Of course I'm joking but if 30 fps is accectable for most people on console would 25 fps really be that bad?
I think I've played GTA game on console in the past where the frame rate is sub 30 for large sections of the game.

The problem for Sony and Microsoft is they have touted their upcoming consoles as 60+fps beasts and good luck trying to explain the complexities of RT to the average punter.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I think this entire thread is testament to the fact no matter what the truth is people just make up whatever anyway.

TitianGerm

Venom wrote: »

The problem for Sony and Microsoft is they have touted their upcoming consoles as 60+fps beasts and good luck trying to explain the complexities of RT to the average punter.

The Ray tracing in consoles might only be a slimed down version used in very specific circumstances.

Inviere

TitianGerm wrote: »

The Ray tracing in consoles might only be a slimed down version used in very specific circumstances.

A bit like years worth of resolution claims really.

M00lers

For those of you lucky enough to own a LG OLED C9 and an RTX card.

http://www.lgnewsroom.com/2019/09/lg-unveils-first-oled-tvs-to-support-nvidia-g-sync-for-big-screen-gaming-experience/

Should really come into its own whenever 2.1 HDMI arrives on GPUs.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG5NLl85pPo

tuxy

So he believes DLSS is not using tensor cores in control but Nvidia still limited it to RTX cards.
Is this making a stronger case for the tensor cores being unessasary in the future?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

tuxy wrote: »

So he believes DLSS is not using tensor cores in control but Nvidia still limited it to RTX cards.
Is this making a stronger case for the tensor cores being unessasary in the future?

No...but I suppose people will take whatever their bias is from it. :rolleyes:

I took the fact you can ray trace everything on at 4k and get over 60 fps
. That DLSS upscalling is almost indistinguishable from native 4k, better in some cases and a little worse in others. The implementation of DLSS in control "may" not be running on the tensor cores at the moment but. This article is good

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-details-new-dlss-technique-in-control-explains-how-dlss-can-further-improve-in-the-future/

K.O.Kiki

Accelerated Ray Tracing: Testing NVIDIA’s RTX In Blender 2.81 Alpha

Bloody hell, that's some improvement!

BloodBath

About time. Hopefully we see some more software support for that hardware. It's a waste otherwise.

Gonna be grabbing a 2070 or 2070S next month. Seen 2070's with decent coolers going as cheap as €430.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Accelerated Ray Tracing: Testing NVIDIA’s RTX In Blender 2.81 Alpha

Bloody hell, that's some improvement!

How long will it take for somebody to post this is not a good thing, its somehow negative and that RTX is a waste of time and money...

RTX already had a big improvement in IPC on a lot of cad packages that were cuda accelerated. My own work use showed considerable improvement.

Anima

https://www.cyberport.de/pc-und-zubehoer/komponenten/grafikkarten/zotac/pdp/2e13-1fk/zotac-gaming-geforce-rtx-2080-blower-8-gb-gddr6-grafikkarte-3xdp-hdmi-usb-c.html

Saw this card in Saturn for 500e. Its a blower which is not great i guess. Still worth it?

tuxy

Anima wrote: »

https://www.cyberport.de/pc-und-zubehoer/komponenten/grafikkarten/zotac/pdp/2e13-1fk/zotac-gaming-geforce-rtx-2080-blower-8-gb-gddr6-grafikkarte-3xdp-hdmi-usb-c.html

Saw this card in Saturn for 500e. Its a blower which is not great i guess. Still worth it?

It's the same price as this
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ASUS-GeForce-High-Performance-Cooling-DUAL-RTX2080-O8G/dp/B07GQ52PNH/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=GeForce+RTX+2080&qid=1569516979&sr=8-2

The blower cards are only good for ITX builds or if you are replacing them with a water cooling solution anyway.

K.O.Kiki

Anima wrote: »

https://www.cyberport.de/pc-und-zubehoer/komponenten/grafikkarten/zotac/pdp/2e13-1fk/zotac-gaming-geforce-rtx-2080-blower-8-gb-gddr6-grafikkarte-3xdp-hdmi-usb-c.html

Saw this card in Saturn for 500e. Its a blower which is not great i guess. Still worth it?

Only worth if you replace the cooler IMHO.
Get a cheap 2070 Super (e.g. https://www.saturn.de/de/product/_kfa2-geforce%C2%AE-rtx-2070-super-ex-27isl6mdu9ek-2574158.html ) if you can't be arsed doing it yourself (e.g. with an Arctic Accelero Xtreme III, or Kraken G12 + AIO).

.G.

Maybe not directly related but since its an DLSS game anyone play Shadow of the tomb raider? I have it but its crashing non stop saying my gpu doesn't have enough resources to play it or something like that. RTX 2080ti I doubt that!

MaLiYa

Anybody using an RTX with SolidWorks. Am thinking of upgrading but to an RTX 4000 which is specifically for CAD but could save €500-€600 if I went with a consumer card like a 2070 Super.

K.O.Kiki

MaLiYa wrote: »

Anybody using an RTX with SolidWorks. Am thinking of upgrading but to an RTX 4000 which is specifically for CAD but could save €500-€600 if I went with a consumer card like a 2070 Super.

As alluded to in the SolidWorks build thread - Quadro P2000 (€430) should be good enough for most projects.
Check benchmarks on PugetSystems

MaLiYa

This is a pretty good video which leads me to think I'd be better off going up a step on the ladder.

tuxy

I haven't been playing games recently but was really surprised that the new COD has ray tracing features on PC.
This is it ray tracing has finally gone main stream, you can expect 2020 to be an outstanding year for Nvidia where all their innovation will pay off.