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Random EV thoughts.....

Old diesel

The main motors forum has the motors chat thread for the little things one would like to say but might not justify a thread.

Thought it might be an idea for here re hybrids and EV stuff.....

To kick off - i wonder if a new measurement for EVs might be assuming a start trip at 100 percent......

A how much range do you get with a 15 minute stop.

With a 350 kw charging a Porsche Tayman might do very well with getting on for 400 miles...

A Leaf 62 not so good.

Obviously where a car can do more then 50 kw charging we would need both a 50 kw and a whatever the cars top rate is figure*.

*IF chargers are available

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Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

*kWh

And it would get me my whole 65-70km commute to work and then some, I'd guess

I doubt it with the weight of it....

Would the weight even be allowed in a vehicle like that?

Mike9832

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I doubt it with the weight of it....

Would the weight even be allowed in a vehicle like that?

Weight isn't as relevant in an EV

Tesla Model S is the weight of a boat and very efficient

20kWh useable will do 65-70km in an X5

Shefwedfan

Mike9832 wrote: »

Weight isn't as relevant in an EV

Tesla Model S is the weight of a boat and very efficient

20kWh useable will do 65-70km in an X5

Yes in an electric.....but its not an electric

Its a PHEV, weight is hugely important for a combustion engine. I would doubt a 20kWh would get 65-70km in an X5.....a petrol X5 is 2400kg. Stick a 20kWh and motor in on top of that and what would it end up at?

Years and years companies have been trying to remove weight for the combustion engine to reduce fuel

Now we are talking about loading in more weight to do what exactly? your ltr/100km will go through the roof so a couple of km on electric will be pointless

liamog

My wife saw the latest unreleased model from Elon Musk being tested around Dublin 15!

Mike9832

Very detailed breakdown down of Porsche Taycan tech for the geeks

https://jalopnik.com/an-extremely-detailed-look-at-the-porsche-taycans-engin-1837802533

The Black Oil

Don't scoop and scoot, folks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-xDA2vv-_c

McGiver

Silent Running wrote: »

McGiver wrote: »

Agree with the other replies and I'd also like to stress that free public charging infrastructure is an anomaly AFAIK, it's not normal anywhere in Europe to my knowledge.

Few countries I'm acquainted with, with both less and more developed EV markets, have vast majority of their chargers privately owned and paid. Not publicl/government owned and free.

The whole free public charging infrastructure in Ireland is very unusual and almost a sort of a Socialist experiment (which mostly failed based on the consensus in the community).

There are some free level 2 and level 3 public chargers in the UK.

My point is that vast majority of chargers in other countries are paid. Free chargers are few % of the total tops.

ELM327

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Yes in an electric.....but its not an electric

Its a PHEV, weight is hugely important for a combustion engine. I would doubt a 20kWh would get 65-70km in an X5.....a petrol X5 is 2400kg. Stick a 20kWh and motor in on top of that and what would it end up at?

Years and years companies have been trying to remove weight for the combustion engine to reduce fuel

Now we are talking about loading in more weight to do what exactly? your ltr/100km will go through the roof so a couple of km on electric will be pointless

A petrol X5 may be 2400kg, what's a model X,2500kg? That still manages ~20kWh/100km
Assuming the BMW drivetrain will be less efficient, that still leaves 80 EV km.

Weight is not the issue with EVs that it is for fossil fuel cars.

70km gets me to work. Charge up and 70km gets me home. Rinse and repeat.
I get to own a 2.5t diesel X5 with all the capabilities that brings but without burning even a gallon of diesel during the week

Mike9832

ELM327 wrote: »

A petrol X5 may be 2400kg, what's a model X,2500kg? That still manages ~20kWh/100km
Assuming the BMW drivetrain will be less efficient, that still leaves 80 EV km.

Weight is not the issue with EVs that it is for fossil fuel cars.

70km gets me to work. Charge up and 70km gets me home. Rinse and repeat.
I get to own a 2.5t diesel X5 with all the capabilities that brings but without burning even a gallon of diesel during the week

Your going to love this one

Diesel Mercedes PHEV with 31kWh battery and 20 min DC charging

https://www.motor1.com/news/369541/2020-mercedes-gle-350de-revealed/

ELM327

Mike9832 wrote: »

Your going to love this one

Diesel Mercedes PHEV with 31kWh battery and 20 min DC charging

https://www.motor1.com/news/369541/2020-mercedes-gle-350de-revealed/

Now we're talkin!
A diesel that can take CCS

:D And people thought the outlander was bad

:D:D

At least it charges at a respectable speed
"With a maximum DC charge rate of 60kW, Mercedes-Benz claims a recharge time of approximately 30min."

krissovo

The Merc is good effort and sounds great on paper but who could live with electric only 140hp doing the weekly commute when you have over 300 available. Its ok if you are nose to tail for most of it but I certainly would not have discipline. Its great flexibility though even though its inefficient use of resources.

ELM327

krissovo wrote: »

The Merc is good effort and sounds great on paper but who could live with electric only 140hp doing the weekly commute when you have over 300 available. Its ok if you are nose to tail for most of it but I certainly would not have discipline. Its great flexibility though even though its inefficient use of resources.

I'd wager it's more responsive with that 140bhp and has more useable range and faster charging than the only real competitor phev SUV, the Outlander

slave1

The irony of a diesel PHEV

Old diesel

krissovo wrote: »

The Merc is good effort and sounds great on paper but who could live with electric only 140hp doing the weekly commute when you have over 300 available. Its ok if you are nose to tail for most of it but I certainly would not have discipline. Its great flexibility though even though its inefficient use of resources.

It's a transition solution imo.

Bit ill thought out though .....

Need to go back to an evolution of the old Ampera idea and do it with a car that's very efficient both running the ICE engine and using EV battery on its own .

The i3 REX was a fine idea but needed an ICE power source that smashed Euro 6 and WLTP.

KCross

krissovo wrote: »

The Merc is good effort and sounds great on paper but who could live with electric only 140hp doing the weekly commute when you have over 300 available. Its ok if you are nose to tail for most of it but I certainly would not have discipline. Its great flexibility though even though its inefficient use of resources.

I'm still on the fence as to how PHEV works with diesel but if they have got it right it will work like any other PHEV.... the engine kicks in when you need the burst of power (i.e. use that 300hp all you like) and then once you are up to cruising speed you are on electric. That 140hp with instant torque will be ideally suited to this kind of heavy SUV.

You shouldnt look at a PHEV as one or the other. Use both motor and engine as required.

And it can tow upto 3500kg.... thats going to be a popular choice for horseboxes!

Mike9832

KCross wrote: »

I'm still on the fence as to how PHEV works with diesel but if they have got it right it will work like any other PHEV.... the engine kicks in when you need the burst of power (i.e. use that 300hp all you like) and then once you are up to cruising speed you are on electric. That 140hp with instant torque will be ideally suited to this kind of heavy SUV.

You shouldnt look at a PHEV as one or the other. Use both motor and engine as required.

And it can tow upto 3500kg.... thats going to be a popular choice for horseboxes!

Merc are putting the same 30kWh pack in the Sprinter van too apparently, which should give 80km or so range

I like the road they are going down, as long as they offer full BEV too

KCross

Mike9832 wrote: »

Merc are putting the same 30kWh pack in the Sprinter van too apparently, which should give 80km or so range

I like the road they are going down, as long as they offer full BEV too

I'm a little torn on the road that the Germans are going down.... its very heavy on the PHEV side.

I can understand their reasoning though with the price of batteries and WLTP emissions targets and the need to stay profitable.

If they can offer PHEV with a worst case 50km+ range all year round then I could accept that but if they offer token EV range (30km) just to meet their emissions targets then I'm against it.

Having said that the recent PHEV announcements from Merc, PSA and BMW have all been decent, spec wise. I'm definitely going to drive a few of them unless some decent BEV's become available at better price points.

Looking forward to what comes out of the Frankfurt motor show. It sounds like there will be a slew of EV stuff at it!

unkel

krissovo wrote: »

Our American friends have only just recently realised that cars can & should go around corners fast, both left & right corners :P

I heard NASCAR have recently moved away from carburetted engines?

:rolleyes:

charlieIRL

Can you use a granny cable in any 3 pin socket in a house? or does it need a dedicated socket straight from the fuseboard?

zg3409

charlieIRL wrote: »

Can you use a granny cable in any 3 pin socket in a house? or does it need a dedicated socket straight from the fuseboard?

Yes and no. First issue is getting cable from inside to outside, many granny cables are quite short so may not reach inside the house. Next getting the cable in and closing the window or door securely overnight can be an issue. In my case the granny cable plug and control box would not fit through the letter box. I used a short extension cable with a waterproof socket on the end, and thus could fit through the letter box, and would work on rainy nights. You must fully unreel the cable as it WILL catch fire otherwise. I would also recommend using a socket close to the fuseboard and one with little wear and tear such as the hallway socket. I replaced my socket with a brand new one, just to be safe and I charged first at daytime in case anything overheated and started a fire. The cables do get quite warm after a couple of hours. Lastly granny cables charge quite slowly typically 10 amp or 2000 watts. This can be a problem if you need a full charge and have a large battery. A typical modern 64kwh car might take 30 hours to fill up, but you are unlikely to need that much range each day and overnight is probably OK for 160km commute.

charlieIRL

Cheers thanks a million. I live out the country so can feed the cable through a small window no problem. It can go directly to a socket which is also near the fuse box!! How long are granny cables? Or is there a generic length (i.e. 5m or so?) I must see how close I’d have to park tpcthe house.

zg3409

charlieIRL wrote: »

Cheers thanks a million. I live out the country so can feed the cable through a small window no problem. It can go directly to a socket which is also near the fuse box!! How long are granny cables? Or is there a generic length (i.e. 5m or so?) I must see how close I’d have to park tpcthe house.

Generally the car comes with one, and there is no standard length. Also some cars connect middle front, others front side, others where the old petrol filler is. So depending on how you park you may need to add the length of the car. Nissan seems to be 6 metres

McGiver

Nissan granny is 6m. You can buy OEM type1 to 3pin 10m granny for about 300.

SuprSi

I'd love that, would ahve the x5 40e now except it only has 20km range at best

BMW now have the X45e for sale. Looks great, 24Kw battery and 6 cylinder petrol engine giving decent range on battery alone, depending on where you look, but over 40 miles is the minimum I've seen quoted.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/x5/2020/2020-bmw-x5-xdrive45e-plug-in-hybrid-first-drive-review/

charlieIRL

McGiver wrote: »

Nissan granny is 6m. You can buy OEM type1 to 3pin 10m granny for about 300.

There’s a granny cable coming with the car but it will only be used at home the odd time (I’ll be doing most of my charging at work)
I won’t be getting a home charger for a while I think so the granny one will have to do

The Black Oil

Bjorn's on some uploading spree tonight.

Lumen

Electric SUV megatest: Mercedes EQC vs luxury rivals
Merc's EV faces a tough, real-world test against rivals, the Audi E-tron, Jaguar I-Pace and Tesla Model X
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/electric-suv-megatest-mercedes-eqc-vs-luxury-rivals

Guess which one wouldn't charge properly? :pac:

Surprisingly the eTron has almost the range of the X in this test, despite having much lower WLTP, and it's also the cheapest (albeit slowest). It seems like Tesla really does need to sort its road noise out if it's to compete in this segment.

screenshot_2019-09-05_at_10.32.05.png?itok=yaxK8Awh

screenshot_2019-09-05_at_10.32.05.png?itok=yaxK8Awh

Old diesel

They used the worst network in the UK and lo and behold - some bright spark in the comments interprets this as saying EVs "cant do a small journey".

The question was posed as to the value of Bjorn Neylands 1000 km challenges .

And the value is illustrating what EVs can do when all people see is "I'm being forced into this thing that doesn't work".

What the magazine did was to do 250 miles on day 1 and check into a hotel with no charging .

So we get delays on way back.

That's not really the proper EV future with better infrastructure though .

The proper future is that on that trip planned as they did - you would charge over night on a destination charger at hotel.

Its then an easy trip.

If you want to do that trip there and back in one day then on a 250 mile range car - it's probably 2 x 25 minute stops in future at high speed chargers.

And that could drop further.

Ecotricity are only 50 kw chargers - but that Etron is a proven 150 kw charging car at ultra fast chargers.

That's 150 kw to fairly high SOC.

Merc is 107 kw on Ionity and still holds a good speed up to high SOC

(SOC = state of charge)

What it took to recharge

JPA

It does seem that a lot of car reviewers go out of their way to make things difficult when they are put in EVs.
The story is too often about charging difficulties frequently of their own making due to ignorance or probably because it gives them something to write about.

Old diesel

The Audi can potentially do 10 to 80 percent in 26 mins when charger is capable of allowing the Audi go at full speed .

10 to 96 percent in around 37 minutes.

This is a car with an 80 kwh available battery capacity so a fair amount of energy going in fast.

That's at an Ionity charger - and Ionity happens to be the place they charged at the start.

No times given for Ionity charging - it's fine to show that charging can be crap with bad chargers .

But why no mention of how cars did on Ionity .

Would give an opportunity to critique the poorer quality chargers .