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The Sub 4 Support Thread

ewc78

Long time lurker but first time poster here.As the title suggests. A thread for anyone trying to break 4hrs in the Marathon.
I've had two rather unsuccessful Marathons already. Dublin 2014 and Dublin 2016.
I had no business running Dublin 2014 as I'd only finished couch to 5k at the start of that year after never running before. I got roped into it by a charity that I'm involved in and felt I couldn't say no, but I really wasn't ready for it.
I struggled around in just under 5hrs and didn't enjoy any of it.
2016 was a bit better and I was better prepared and my main goal was to enjoy it. I hadn't much of a base going into Marathon training but I did all the training and came home in 4:25 but more importantly for me anyway was I enjoyed the whole experience from start to finish.
I decided there and then at the finish line though that I wasn't going to do or train for another Marathon until I had a decent base behind me. The next Marathon I did I wanted to give it a proper go.
Since the end of Dublin 2016 I've kept a consistent enough milage of between 25-30miles a week. With various tempo runs and intervals thrown in and a long run when I can.
I haven't done any races since apart from park runs( which I know aren't races) but as a measure of progress my 5km time has dropped from 26 minutes and a bit down to 22:04.
My aim is obviously to go sub 4 in the Dublin Marathon this October.
I haven't decided on a training plan yet but have been reading Hanson's Marathon method book recently.
I realise I'm not a fast runner by any stretch of the imagination but with being almost 40, and alot of my time taken up with being self employed and having 3 kids under the age of 6 I feel a sub 4hr would be a good achievement for me personally.
Would be interested in hearing from anyone else hoping to go Sub 4hr for the first time also.
Doesn't have to be just the Dublin Marathon either.
Thanks.

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skyblue46

Dealerz2.0 wrote: »

Thanks for this, appreciate it. I really enjoy the race series half...but maybe I should keep the main thing the main thing.

Just reading your P&D log section, (I got a nod re parking in Swords, nice!). I’ll probably have lots of questions later when I get through it

....so what would be a good 10 mile race result time for a hopeful sub 4 DCM?

I'm sure that you have read on here about stories of success and failure based on differing 10 mile and HM results. As a guideline though I'd think someone would need to be very close to 80 mins for the 10 miler.

Murph_D

Dealerz2.0 wrote: »

Thanks for this, appreciate it. I really enjoy the race series half...but maybe I should keep the main thing the main thing.

Just reading your P&D log section, (I got a nod re parking in Swords, nice!). I’ll probably have lots of questions later when I get through it

....so what would be a good 10 mile race result time for a hopeful sub 4 DCM?

85 mins or so and you should feel confident about being on track, although everyone is different.

Racing (even off-plan) can be a valuable part of the process and is worth doing in my opinion, especially if you like to race. I’d follow the guidelines for adapting and cut the Sunday recovery way back, maybe even do it Monday.

Dealerz2.0

Sounds good, thanks

sibeen99

Unthought Known wrote: »

Yeah I'll do the 6 miles rec on Thursday. I've just gone back and read the chapter on tune up races again so I'll also cut the Sunday run back to 6 miles recovery.
Yes, do the warm up and cool down. Have another read of the tune up section at the end of chapter one. They talk about the advantages of actually racing rather than using them as marathon pace sessions. Of course, only race it if you feel up to it.

I’ll have a read back over that later.
Lots of good advice here. I’m thinking if I’m feeling good Saturday I’ll race it and see what happens. As Skyblue says changing a few miles won’t make a huge difference to the overall plan. I don’t have any other races lined up before Dublin.

sibeen99

Unthought Known wrote: »

I'd be careful about racing the half as it's only 5 weeks out from DCM. I followed P&D last year, raced the half and PB'd by 9 minutes, then faded at DCM to miss my target by 6 minutes. Racing that represents a training block of around 10 days, according to the book, and you could risk jeopardising your main goal.

I’m going to add to this. I raced a half 5 weeks out from my marathon last year. Finally went sub 1:50 but ran a disastrous marathon. Now there were other things that went wrong on the day but I couldn’t help feeling I traded a marathon pb for a half pb.

skyblue46

Unthought Known wrote: »

I'd be careful about racing the half as it's only 5 weeks out from DCM. I followed P&D last year, raced the half and PB'd by 9 minutes, then faded at DCM to miss my target by 6 minutes. Racing that represents a training block of around 10 days, according to the book, and you could risk jeopardising your main goal.

I'd echo this. I dropped it from my schedule last year as I felt it was too tight a turnaround. With a week a bit easier prior to the half, a week or more to fully recover from a raced half and two/three weeks of taper before DCM I felt I would be reducing the last 6 weeks prior to DCM into 4 weeks of rest/recovery/taper and only 2 weeks of 'training'.

Dealerz2.0

Regarding the race series half- Yeah definitely all valid points- thanks again

Mr. Guappa

My current plan is to race the Race Series HM. My reasoning is that my plan has a 75 min tempo run the following weekend, and my HM pace should be in that tempo range, so I was going to drop the 75 min tempo and race the HM instead. I've another HM this weekend anyway, so I'll see how that goes, and how much recovery is required after, and I'll think again about the Race Series HM after that if necessary.

ewc78

I decided not to do the race series half this year for the reasons above of thinking it's too close to the Full.
The main thing is the main thing as has been mentioned. If I can manage the sub 4 this year I plan on doing loads of races next year as I won't be doing DCM so plenty of time for PBs in all the other distances next year and onwards.
Actually really looking forward to doing something other than training for a Marathon. I've a few goals in mind that may be unrealistic like a sub 20min 5k but I would like to try and get it anyway ,but I'll worry about that after DCM.

My training is going well enough. I'm doing the Meno plan. Did my first 20 mile run last Sunday and it went relatively well. Did do it a touch faster than I wanted averaging 9:48/mile but in general I've slowed down all my runs compared to last year.
Ran 48 miles last week in total but have a step back week this week so "only" have to do between 30-35.
I think overall things are going better than last year and I'm rigidly sticking to the plan which I didn't last year. The plan really starts to kick up a gear from next week with loads of MP runs so looking forward to that.

Who else is doing the Meno plan? How are ye getting on?

Hedgehoggy

ewc78 wrote: »

I decided not to do the race series half this year for the reasons above of thinking it's too close to the Full.
The main thing is the main thing as has been mentioned. If I can manage the sub 4 this year I plan on doing loads of races next year as I won't be doing DCM so plenty of time for PBs in all the other distances next year and onwards.
Actually really looking forward to doing something other than training for a Marathon. I've a few goals in mind that may be unrealistic like a sub 20min 5k but I would like to try and get it anyway ,but I'll worry about that after DCM.

My training is going well enough. I'm doing the Meno plan. Did my first 20 mile run last Sunday and it went relatively well. Did do it a touch faster than I wanted averaging 9:48/mile but in general I've slowed down all my runs compared to last year.
Ran 48 miles last week in total but have a step back week this week so "only" have to do between 30-35.
I think overall things are going better than last year and I'm rigidly sticking to the plan which I didn't last year. The plan really starts to kick up a gear from next week with loads of MP runs so looking forward to that.

Who else is doing the Meno plan? How are ye getting on?

I'm doing Meno for second year running - had a couple of disrupted weeks with illness (the little bearer of bugs caught a virus and passed it on!!!) and was finding the plan a good bit harder this year. Having said that I think its paying off. Took the step back week last week and did the Kilcock 10 mile - This the race has given me a bit of confidence and the motivation to get back on track properly with the plan. Will be tackling the first 20miler this weekend :O

hillsiderunner

Had the same worries regarding HMs too close to the marathon and I have found a Half-marathon 7 weeks before DCM. I will definitely be racing the half, I want to get a feel of how realistic sub-4 is. It's been ages since I raced any standard distance.

Last week for me was 47miles including an 18mile LSR (longest to date) and a 7MP run as well. Was feeling a bit tired by the end of the week!

Bluesquare

I’m doing a half the week before the race series one and will be racing it! My reasoning may not be exactly logical towards the marathon goal mind. I fancy a decent pb out of this training cycle - a not putting all eggs in one basket type thing !

Haven’t decided what to do about the frank fella yet though . It’s written into my plan (a taper isn’t) , half of me thinks I’ll race the bloody thing and I’m raring to go , the other cautious half is making all sorts of suggestions :to enjoy it at a comfortably hard pace whatever that is, treat as progression run, maybe do 8k HMP/8k MP, the possibilities are endless !

bucketybuck

I did the race series half last year, raced it reasonably hard and brought my PB down from 2.01 to 1.46. Then I was going for sub-4 in the marathon and made it comfortably in 3.55.

To be honest I thought the race series HM was placed specifically to be raced and to benchmark where somebody might be in terms of their DCM goals, I'm surprised to hear people say it is too close.

One benefit I found last year was that getting a strong PB in the HM gave me a lot of confidence to push on for my marathon goal, it reinforced that I had the training and that it wasn't some pie in the sky target. I'd recommend a race for that reason alone, I think its better for people to have a no BS benchmark of what sort of shape they are in before the big one.

Fenster

Reykjavik done in 3:40 chip, 3:50 gun, versus a target of 3:30. There were so many easy things which came up in the run to fix that I'm confident I can easily knock ten or fifteen minutes off my next.

Murph_D

Fenster wrote: »

Reykjavik done in 3:40 chip, 3:50 gun, versus a target of 3:30. There were so many easy things which came up in the run to fix that I'm confident I can easily knock ten or fifteen minutes off my next.

Don’t leave us hanging. What easy things?

How was the race - big positive split or what?

Anyway - well under 4 hours for sure - if that’s the first time, very well done.

Fenster

Hmm. Link to Strava: https://www.strava.com/activities/2646809390

Splits in the first half were negative, and positive in the second as I got tired. Averaged ~5:00/km.
Before the start of the race I placed myself way too far back in the combined half and full marathon bullpen. The organisers had instructed anyone running >2:00 to go at the rear, and I did so based on my estimated total time instead of my estimated half time. This led ten kilometres of me working my way up the race. I had to get around some incredibly obnoxious Americans, clots of slower runners and half marathon pacing buses. While this was totally on me, it was super frustrating to work through!
I worry about attacks of IBS on longer runs, which led me to stop to poo once at 16k. I'm happy with my decision to stop and use the portaloo, as it took a big weight off my mind.
In my own opinion I over-hydrated through the course of the race because I stopped twice to pee at 24k and 37k. Next time I will go with my own hydration vest and ease off a little on drinking.
I wore the shorts which came up in Arm iPhone holder for Running. They chafed my thighs to hell, and I can't shake off the suspicious that they caused my sore left quad (they pinched). Great for trails, not so much for a full. Next time I'll wear normal shorts and instead invest in a better running belt.
My anxiety over the ten kilometre gap between training and the race led me to run conservatively. I was so afraid of that last unknown 10k that I wish now that I had run a full before the race itself.
At around 25k I stopped looking at my watch and focused on just running. While I slowed down over the course of that first kilometre, I rapidly picked up the pace and keep pretty close to my target time.
My plan for race day slowed me down. My plan for race day got me to the finish. Don't second guess yourself. Do better in the next race instead.
I'm really, actually, truly fit. I didn't even feel I was working hard before 23k. So many people in the half dropped out, as did so many in the full. This shocked me!
A marathon (well, for me) isn't a do-or-die sprint to the finish. I wasn't afraid to stop, slow, work muscles or whatever, and I kept up a mental monologue with my partner about the race.. This level of self-care paid off in the last few kilometres. I passed people in tears calling family to give them the strength to get through.
The mental run matters as much as the physical.
I never hit the wall. While by the end my legs were so stiff that they were only going to go at the pace they were going at, I was aware, functioning, and happy. There were a couple of zombies on the last stretch.

Things to improve:

Better hydration strategy. Depending on the day I could afford to scale back a little, maybe carry my own water.
Better eating strategy on the day. I'd rather snacks and bananas and whatever over gels next time.
Better placement. Never should I have to hop barriers to get around slow runners and out of the bullpen!
More confidence in training training. I had no idea whatsoever of where training had brought me until I did the Streets of Galway 8k a few weeks ago. At that point my body felt trained to my target pace. I'll set a more aggressive training pace in future.

I'm running the KBC Dublin half in four weeks. I'm going to focus on speed and the half distance between now and then with a 1:30 target time, and drop down to five days/week running because I'd like some of my own life back!

Singer

Three toilet visits is a lot! You shouldn't have to carry water on any well organised race (exception being if you're planning to be running at the back of the pack and can't rely on the race organisers, but that's not the case at your pace). The IBS thing is interesting, have you caused problems by holding on to pees in the past?

1:30 at the half might be a push. Your 8k race pace wasn't that much faster. Then again your recent half was done on a hilly course, there'll be 1:30 pacers, and you're improving fast! Make sure you place yourself well and don't carry water though

Fenster

My IBS is a managed thing, although activities being a trigger is an annoyance. When I have to go, I have to go now, so I'll always stop when in doubt. Bladder problems aren't related, but TL;DR a full bladder aches. I'm not going to win any races, so I'm totally happy to stop for comfort if I have that utter need.

I ran the 8k and half slower than I might have, the 8k because I just went with comfortable breathing, and the half because hills and heat. I know I have better in me if I get more confidence around knowing I can.

smashiner

Ok,this is getting serious now.......:)

I did a 30K LSR yesterday in about 3:03 (6:08 per KM or thereabouts), I was very comfortable for 23K, struggled a bit from 23-27K (uphill into a stiff breeze, good prepp for Roebuck Road!), but finished ok for the last few KM's, so happy enough with that.

The advice given on this thread was to slow down a bit on the LSR's and it definitely worked out better for me (might be still a bit too fast?). Total KM's last week was 55 (8+9+8+30 LSR) plus 2 cross training swim sessions, so I think that I am in the right ball park with 8 weeks to go.

I was planning to hit 32K three times in the coming weeks and maybe enter a Half, or do one on my own at a faster pace as I agree with the concept of getting my Half time down to 1:45-1:47 in order to have a good crack at sub 4 this year. Can't do the DCHM as it clashes with family stuff, the Fastlane HM (new HM) looks like an option maybe.....

Any comments/guidance on how I should tackle the next 4-6 weeks of training??

I think that upping one of the midweek runs to 16K-20K might be something that I would consider if it makes sense, just a little concerned that I might overdo it and end up crocked ...:rolleyes:

Keep going guys... just a few more weeks of madness to go....

ewc78

Yep getting pretty serious now. I did 19 miles yesterday, meno plan called for 18 but I misjudged my route and ended up with the 19.
Plan also called for 2 x 3 miles at MP.
This went surprisingly well. Splits were 8:43 8:55 & 9:02 for first set which I did at miles 7,8,9 then I did second set at miles 14,15 and 16 and splits were 9:00 8:51 8:56 so very happy with how it went. All the other miles were easy at around 10-10:10 min/mile
47 miles in total last week.

Think I'll do the 20 mile next weekend starting in Phoenix Park and head down onto the quays and take in the first half(well from mile 2) of the DCM route as far as the Walkinstown Roundabout before heading back down the Kylemore Road,through Ballyfermot back to the Park.

Hope everyone is going well.
It's getting close now!

Dealerz2.0

My log is a weekly update of my confidence: "I can break 4hs/I can't break 4 hours/I can break 4 hours/I can't break 4 hours"

Last week was a "recovery" week of 43 miles...on the way down now (down in number of weeks left but up in mileage) to taper.

Plan is going well, some tough days/weeks and some strong days/weeks.

Signed up to Rathoath Half last week with a view to racing it and then the plan the following week has a 18m (14m at MP) for the Race Series Half. So I will have a fair idea how I am fixed after the next 3 weeks.

Trying to keep the easy runs easy and give the speed days a good lash. My second 20 miler is on Saturday, no route planned as yet.

sibeen99

It took me a while to get over the wreck that was Frank Duffy but I’m trying to stay positive. One bad run does not mean the training is in vain. I’m doing p and d, really enjoyed the effort of the V02 session this week but I did miss an 8 miler due to feeling under the weather. It’s a big mileage week this week so looking forward to ticking all the runs off.

It’s good to hear how others are getting on especially as I don’t know anyone in ‘real life’ using p and d.

Bluesquare

Frank Duffy really stuck the elbow in my training as well - and at the beginning of last week everything felt sub par. I was feeling very sorry for myself and came up with several plan Bs.

I decided to keep going with the training anyway using 9 min miles as MP. 18 mile LR on sat was particularly hilly (200m elevation according to strava) included 13k MP . Finishing with 2 MP average 5:30 gave me a bit of a boost . I need to get my head together no matter what my final target is ! King of training here which is fairly useless!

Doing ratoath half as well - have dialed back my target though - need to make sure my head is not destroyed all together !

OOnegative

Everyone has bad days racing, but it’s important to learn from what went wrong, make sure to the best of your ability it doesn’t happen again and move on. Frank Duffy appeared to effect most so plenty were in the same boat, a very warm, humid morning that would effect the best of runners.

If your training has been indicating a certain marathon time up until now, don’t deviate from it because of the result from Frank Duffy, stick to the paces you have been training to & race targets you had in mind.

Bluesquare

Looking for the written description of the Dcm course - a really good one that describes why course is perfect for a negative split? Have trawled through this thread and can’t find - I thought this is where I read it previously ?? Anyone know where I can find ?

cullenswood

Bluesquare wrote: »

Looking for the written description of the Dcm course - a really good one that describes why course is perfect for a negative split? Have trawled through this thread and can’t find - I thought this is where I read it previously ?? Anyone know where I can find ?

This? Can't remember who wrote it but I had it copied and pasted down elsewhere......

DCM 2017 Course Guide

Based on my own recollection of DCM 2016, and having covered all bar the first 200 metres or so of the course in the last two months, I've concocted a guide to this year. Grab yourself a cuppa!

Mile 1

The first mile of DCM is a very gentle introduction to the challenge ahead, with little or no elevation change to speak of. Regardless of what wave you're in, or what pacers you're following, it's going to be very congested, and the hardest thing you'll have to do in this mile is avoid tripping over yourself or another runner. There's a sharp right hander on to Leeson Street about 250 metres from the start, and *everybody* gets stuck here. You'll have covered a kilometre just before you cross the Green Luas line at the end of St Stephen's Green. There's a few more traffic islands beyond here, just to keep you from daydreaming too much.

Mile 2

Just after the lane that brings you to Marsh's Library, we turn right at the crossroads and head towards Christchurch, with St Patrick's Cathedral on our right. There's a steep enough hill as you approach Christchurch, but it's not too long and shouldn't really affect you as it's so early in the game. Left at the top, and about 200 metres further on, we go downhill to the quays. This is a lot steeper, so careful with the speed on the way down, especially as there's more traffic islands just as we join the Liffey. Nice and flat along the quays, before we turn right over James Joyce Bridge, and then the climb begins, as we cross the Red Luas line and reach the 2 Mile marker.

Mile 3

This is the opening stage of the long drag up to Castleknock. The sections through Stoneybatter and Manor Street are the steepest. Keep the effort even, and don't worry if pacers are getting ahead of you at this point. You've still got literally hours to reel them in, so patience is key. At Kavanagh's Corner, we swing left onto Aughrim Street, which is a lot narrower, and has cobbles as you enter it and ramps as you proceed up it. There was a water station at Kavanagh's Corner last year, which wasn't as specified in the course guide, and it caught a lot of people out, myself included - so just be ready for it this time. At the end of Aughrim Street, the course levels off somewhat, as we turn left onto North Circular Road and can see the Wellington Monument looming large in the distance.

Mile 4

Shortly before we enter the Phoenix Park for the first time, we go through the 3 Mile marker. Be aware that the actual road route is very narrow as you pass Garda HQ. If at all possible, resist the temptation to jump on and off paths. It'll be very sticky again, but overall not a bad thing if you're following a conservative strategy. Too much bobbing and weaving, and you'll use up a lot of energy which you'll need later on. The crowds will separate as time goes by. The road rises again as we head up the North Road, and then turn left with the azoo on our left. There's a little dip before we turn left at the end of the Polo Grounds, and the road drops a little as we head down Lord's Walk to the 4 Mile marker.

Mile 5

Turn right onto Chesterfield Avenue, and you can look ahead for quite a distance, as it's dead straight for about two miles from here. It can also be fairly windy. The first section of Chesterfield Avenue, between the zoo and the Phoenix Roundabout, is the longest and also the steepest. Again, don't get disheartened if pacers are pulling away from you here. Their pace will be consistent throughout, whereas you are hopefully going to have a strong second half to pass them later in the race. Go around the monument, and you've 5 miles in the bag and a water station to avail of.

Mile 6

Still climbing slowly, but it's not as steep as the first section, and you'll hopefully be into a nice rhythm by now, as the wider road should ensure you have a bit more space. Keep checking your breathing and your form - hopefully no issues yet. We reach the 6 Mile marker just before we leave the Park for the first time.

Mile 7

Castleknock Gate is very narrow, so you're going to have a lot of bunching again. Resist the temptation to charge through the gate - only more energy wasted. You'll cross the first timing mat at the 10k marker, which is shortly after you start the next climb towards Castleknock village. All the way from here to the village (roughly half a mile) the support is top class. Trust me, it will lift you as you get near the end of this tough section of the marathon. The road actually drops as you approach Myo's. There's a DJ on the corner, and the crowds gathered here are huge. Sharp left at Myo's, and uphill for another quarter of a mile. At the end of this, you reach the 7 Mile marker and the highest point on the course. Well done!

Mile 8

This is a very steep downhill mile, starting as you drop through the Castleknock College crossroads, and getting steeper as you continue towards Mount Sackville. Keep it handy on the downhill. It's so tempting to go mad, after climbing slowly uphill for most of the previous 5 miles. Remember, we're playing the long game here. Past Mount Sackville and left back into the Phoenix Park, where there's a short climb to the 8 Mile marker just inside Knockmaroon Gate.

Mile 9

There's a dip before we reach the crossroads and turn right. We now travel down the Upper Glen Road, which many of you will have run up in the Frank Duffy 10 Mile and various other races. This time we have the benefit of the downhill, and the opportunity to get another breather, as we emerge from the forest and the hill gets steeper.

Mile 10

Continuing on down the hill, we go through 15k just before we leave the Park at Chapelizod Gate, to a wall of sound turning into Chapelizod. Lots more supporters, a water station, and a DJ IIRC. Still mainly downhill through here, as we cross the Liffey and then turn left at the staggered crossroads. The road's a bit narrower here, but wide enough that you should be able to keep going in a straight line . There's some more ramps along here, and the road rises and falls for the next quarter of a mile.

Mile 11

This mile begins with the steepest hill on the course, which takes us up under the Chapelizod Bypass and up to Ballyfermot. Try not to race up it. Again, try keep your effort even, shorten your stride and get your arms working to get you up there. You'll feel some pain, but you'll also get some satisfaction once you reach the top. It's fairly even through Ballyfermot, slightly downhill overall if anything. After about half a mile, we leave Ballyfermot, as our course takes us through the dip under the railway line and then up the hill to Cleary's pub in Inchicore.

Mile 12

Last year we got funnelled down one side of Inchicore Road as we passed the traffic island. I wasn't expecting it to be honest, and it scrunched us up again. Inchicore Road is slightly downhill, and there's lots more supporters as you pass Kilmainham Gaol and turn right at the Royal Hospital. There's a steep dip here, and the climb back up towards the left turn for the South Circular Road isn't long, but is tough enough. The SCR itself is slightly downhill, and you'll get to the 12 Mile marker just before the entrance to St James's Hospital.

Mile 13/Halfway

Slight rise as we turn right and over the Luas bridge, before dropping downhill into Rialto. The territory here isn't too demanding, and you should be in good shape as we continue along SCR heading towards Dolphin's Barn. There's more huge crowds gathered around the right turn at Dolphin's Barn, where you head up and over the Grand Canal and then drop onto Crumlin Road. Keep concentrating and making sure all systems are still functioning ok. We're on another long slow climb now, but there's another water station after you pass Crumlin Shopping Centre and go under the halfway line gantry.

Mile 14

It's dead straight all the way from here to Our Lady's Hospital. In addition, the wind is usually against us. Try not to get too focused on this, instead concentrate on what you're doing. Just keep an eye a yard or two ahead, there'll undoubtedly be a guy or girl to follow. Still climbing gradually, as we pass the hospital and reach the 14 Mile marker at the start of Drimnagh.

Mile 15

This is basically a continuation of 14 to begin with, however we turn left at the Halfway House (23k) and head towards Walkinstown Roundabout. Stay in the game through here, because although we're still climbing, respite is near at hand for you. The crowds around the roundabout are great, and there's more music which will hopefully give you another boost as the road drops a little along Cromwellsfort Road, where the 15 Mile marker is about 300 metres from the roundabout.

Mile 16

This is the first of several gradually downhill miles, to set us up for the closing stages. Past the Ashleaf Shopping Centre just before 25k, and on towards the 16 mile mark just before KCR, where there's water and gels available.

Mile 17

Right at KCR, and then a left onto Fortfield Road. Those of you who have run the Terenure 5 Mile will be familiar with this section. It's very quiet in terms of support, until you pass the side of Terenure College and reach the 17 Mile mark just before you reach Templeogue Road.

Mile 18

Lovely straight smooth downhill on the relatively wide expanse of Templeogue Road, with Terenure village up ahead. For some reason, I particularly remember being given jellies along here last year. I'm sure I got offered them elsewhere too. Either way, head up, relax the shoulders and breathe. Continue through the Terenure crossroads onto Terenure Road East, where we pass through the 18 Mile marker.

Mile 19

Right turn onto Orwell Road in Rathgar, where there's more downhill for us, before taking a left into flat Orwell Park. The 30k mark is at the start of Orwell Park, whereas the 19 Mile marker will be at the end of it. We're getting near crunch time now, but try not to be nervous. You've done the training, this is where you put it into practice.

Mile 20

We start with a steep drop downhill and swinging left, where we see the Dropping Well pub on the right. Last year there was excellent support around the Luas bridge. After going under this, we climb briefly, before the road levels off until we reach the church on the left. The climb from the church, again, isn't that long, but you may have to start digging into the reserves through here. The rest of this mile is flat, and you'll have completed 20 miles of the marathon before you reach the crossroads, and hopefully you're still feeling strong and ready for the next test.

Mile 21

For me, this was the hardest mile of DCM 2016. I'd been struggling with injury in the build up anyway, but the up and down (mainly up) nature of the run through Clonskeagh finished off any lingering hopes of me reaching my A goal on the day. No long climbs as such in this mile, but you'll need to be switched on and prepared to dig in.

Mile 22

Roughly around the entrance to the Leinster Rugby training centre, we start Mile 22 and come to a fork in the road. Here we veer left onto Roebuck Road, and then keep left to stay on Roebuck Road (as opposed to continuing onto Goatstown Road) Most of this section is fine really, even at this advanced stage of the marathon. Overall it's a small bit of respite, as we approach the so-called "Heartbreak Hill" of DCM. At the end of this mile, there's a Lucozade station, so keep getting fluids on board.

Mile 23

"Heartbreak Hill" comes at the start of Mile 23, as we approach the end of Roebuck Road. In reality, it's not very long, or particularly steep, especially when compared to some of the other hills you've conquered. So as before, concentrate, work the arms, head up, and you'll be over the top in no time. Big crowds will be gathered at the top of the hill, willing you on to get up there and pass them. And that's it as far as hills are concerned. Now you're heading left onto Fosters Avenue, and a steep downhill as you can see the Radisson St Helens on the other side of the Stillorgan dualler. If you have the pacers within range, now is surely the time for you to muster that little bit extra.

Mile 24

Just after the 23 Mile mark, we start "up" the slip road to the UCD flyover. It's not really a hill at all. The main road drops as it goes under the flyover! Sure there's only a parkrun to go. The section from the far side of the dualler, to the right turn onto Nutley Lane, is actually steeper. Nutley Lane itself is mainly downhill, with the 24 Mile mark around the Merrion Centre. Make sure you grab some water before the turn for home.

Mile 25

Now we're really on the way back in. There's not long left now, so stay strong because the end is worth the effort. We're in Monopoly big money territory now, as we pass both Shrewsbury Road and Ailesbury Road, before we reach the RDS Main Hall and the 25 Mile marker. So close now, stay with it!

Mile 26(.2)

Cross over Ball's Bridge, and slight right to reach the American Embassy at 41k. From here, the crowds really start to build along Northumberland Road. This will give you that little bit extra you need to reach your goal. If you have any strength left now, time to empty the tank. You've trained for months to be in shape to give it your best today. Crossing Mount Street bridge, you'll see the finish line in the distance. Don't stop me now! If you've paced it well, you'll have been passing people for ages too. Keep going, all the way through and up to the line. Look up at the clock. Arms in the air, if you can!

CONGRATULATIONS! You are now a DCM Graduate!!!

Bluesquare

That looks like the one all right .

Thanks

The Black Oil

WW's work. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105080642&postcount=5140

Bluesquare

Should have guessed !! Thanks WW - a great guide!

ewc78

Well I suppose it had to happen sooner or later, but today was the first run where the doubts started to creep in.
20 miles with 10 easy and 10 steady. I took in miles 2 to 15 of Marathon course from Stoneybatter to Walkinstown Roundabout.
Found the 10 easy very manageable and comfortable but the 10 steady from about mile 14 on took a lot out of me. I'd forgotten how much of a drag the Crumlin Road is from the Coombe onwards, it really takes an effort to get through it.
I averaged 10:05 for the easy miles and tried to keep the steady at between 9:20 and 9:30 pace.
I was spent by the end and wondered how would I manage another 6 miles at a faster pace as there was no way I'd have done another 6 today.

I've ran 51 miles(inc todays milage) this week which is the most I've ever run in a single week, so how much of an effect would that have on a long run like today?