holyhead wrote: » Will Brexit impact on the possibility of re-unification of the island?
mattser wrote: » This thread needs a distraction. I'm thinking of buying a Royal Enfield motorbike. I'm not being a smartass with the Royal bit. Just wondering if there's any bikers on here.
Stop moaning ffs wrote: » Its a rare thing to agree with Trimble but he’s 100% correct on that one.
FrancieBrady wrote: » There is nothing ambiguous about the confident assertion of Ian Paisley again: I think the people arguing most vehemently on this simple subject don't really understand the differences between an 'identity' and 'where you are unequivocally from'. As another confident Unionist knew very early in life no doubt, you just needed to leave the country if you needed proof
Edward Carson was a life-long Irishman, as well as being a life-long unionist, and that made all the difference… On this 28th day of September, 100 years after his pen touched parchment, we salute the man who taught us all how to be true Irishmen and women.
Stop moaning ffs wrote: » You can be an unionist from Ulster and identify as British. But if you go to Britain they just see you as Irish.
David Trimble wrote: Many Englishmen… seem unable to distinguish between the native inhabitants of Ireland – to him they are all “paddies”.”
Stop moaning ffs wrote: » ‘Precious union’. Yeah right.
gwalk wrote: » Here in Liverpool I make a point of using Northern Irish sterling I have on me from visits home when throwing in for collections in work for Birthdays, People Leaving etc, because I'm that petty
Stop moaning ffs wrote: » You can be an unionist from Ulster and identify as British. But if you go to Britain they just see you as Irish. And you can’t spend your NI sterling in Britain either. I’ve tried many times and been refused and had to go to a bank to change it. ‘Precious union’. Yeah right.
jh79 wrote: » Fionn1952 wrote: » Apologies for the multiple posts everyone, I'm on mobile and haven't the inclination towards multiquoting! And as i've already said Belfast is a British city therefore British people are also born on the Island of Ireland. They don't identify as Brtish they are British by birth. This would be what I'm referring to, JH - British city, British by birth. While not born in Belfast (fair few mile to the West), I presume you'd apply the same logic, and insist that I'm from a British town and I'm British by birth. You seem to be fully aware that it's a complex situation, yet so focused on proving Francie wrong that you're taking an, 'equal but opposite' perspective to paint us all as British, rather than what I assume is your nuanced view, which respects the GFA. Your incorrect terminology, referring to Belfast as Britain (which is not the same as the United Kingdom) seems to be the core behind this lack of clarity. While i still think saying Belfast is a British city it isn't really important to my point and saying it is a UK city still means British is still one of the options for nationality. The point is Francie doesn't get to decide for someone else . There are 2 nationalities by birth in NI with no heirachy.
Fionn1952 wrote: » Apologies for the multiple posts everyone, I'm on mobile and haven't the inclination towards multiquoting! And as i've already said Belfast is a British city therefore British people are also born on the Island of Ireland. They don't identify as Brtish they are British by birth. This would be what I'm referring to, JH - British city, British by birth. While not born in Belfast (fair few mile to the West), I presume you'd apply the same logic, and insist that I'm from a British town and I'm British by birth. You seem to be fully aware that it's a complex situation, yet so focused on proving Francie wrong that you're taking an, 'equal but opposite' perspective to paint us all as British, rather than what I assume is your nuanced view, which respects the GFA. Your incorrect terminology, referring to Belfast as Britain (which is not the same as the United Kingdom) seems to be the core behind this lack of clarity.
And as i've already said Belfast is a British city therefore British people are also born on the Island of Ireland. They don't identify as Brtish they are British by birth.
janfebmar wrote: » Fionn1952 wrote: » When speaking English, it would be incorrect to use the word Eire. You wouldn't call Germany Deutschland, I presume? I would always call Ireland Ireland, never use Eire, but am forced to use Eire on stamps if I post a letter abroad, so perhaps should not be surprised if sometimes the same people abroad would refer to Eire? Maybe they think Ireland is the whole island and Eire is the part south of the border? And maybe they think because we call it that on our coins, on our stamps, even in huge letters on headlands and ships during WW2, that we even want to be called Eire, same as for example the Argentinians like to refer to the Falklands as the Malvinas?
Fionn1952 wrote: » When speaking English, it would be incorrect to use the word Eire. You wouldn't call Germany Deutschland, I presume?
holyhead wrote: » Fionn1952 wrote: » Excuse my being brusque, but f*cking duh. I've said as much repeatedly. I'd suggest you read my posts more carefully. Genuinely, this is bloody idiotic. You're literally quoting a post where I state that the North is in the United Kingdom.....trying to tell me that the North is in the United Kingdom, due to your absolute inability to understand that different words have different meanings. Britain is part of the United Kingdom. It is not semantics to use them as different words. It is akin to suggesting that Cork means the same as Ireland. What is your issue with the fact that Belfast is in the UK? You are correct to say that N.I is in the UK. The UK is defined as Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I genuinely didn’t realize that Britain and UK are not the exact same in definition. Terms can be interchangeable ie Ireland as in the island and 26 county republic.
Fionn1952 wrote: » Excuse my being brusque, but f*cking duh. I've said as much repeatedly. I'd suggest you read my posts more carefully. Genuinely, this is bloody idiotic. You're literally quoting a post where I state that the North is in the United Kingdom.....trying to tell me that the North is in the United Kingdom, due to your absolute inability to understand that different words have different meanings. Britain is part of the United Kingdom. It is not semantics to use them as different words. It is akin to suggesting that Cork means the same as Ireland.
Fionn1952 wrote: » Apologies for the multiple posts everyone, I'm on mobile and haven't the inclination towards multiquoting! And as i've already said Belfast is a British city therefore British people are also born on the Island of Ireland. They don't identify as Brtish they are British by birth.[\QUOTE] This would be what I'm referring to, JH - British city, British by birth. While not born in Belfast (fair few mile to the West), I presume you'd apply the same logic, and insist that I'm from a British town and I'm British by birth. You seem to be fully aware that it's a complex situation, yet so focused on proving Francie wrong that you're taking an, 'equal but opposite' perspective to paint us all as British, rather than what I assume is your nuanced view, which respects the GFA. Your incorrect terminology, referring to Belfast as Britain (which is not the same as the United Kingdom) seems to be the core behind this lack of clarity. While i still think saying Belfast is a British city is correct it isn't really important to my point and saying it is a UK city still means British is one of the options for nationality. The point is Francie doesn't get to decide for someone else . There are 2 nationalities by birth in NI with no heirachy.
And as i've already said Belfast is a British city therefore British people are also born on the Island of Ireland. They don't identify as Brtish they are British by birth.[\QUOTE] This would be what I'm referring to, JH - British city, British by birth. While not born in Belfast (fair few mile to the West), I presume you'd apply the same logic, and insist that I'm from a British town and I'm British by birth. You seem to be fully aware that it's a complex situation, yet so focused on proving Francie wrong that you're taking an, 'equal but opposite' perspective to paint us all as British, rather than what I assume is your nuanced view, which respects the GFA. Your incorrect terminology, referring to Belfast as Britain (which is not the same as the United Kingdom) seems to be the core behind this lack of clarity.
holyhead wrote: » I think historically British people would have referred to Ireland as Eire.
Fionn1952 wrote: » mattser wrote: » This thread needs a distraction. I'm thinking of buying a Royal Enfield motorbike. I'm not being a smartass with the Royal bit. Just wondering if there's any bikers on here. Thanks for the distraction, Mattser - always Japanese bike man myself, mostly rode Hondas, but there are some gorgeous Royal Enfield bikes. Looking at a Bullet?
janfebmar wrote: » Fionn1952 wrote: » Britain is not the same as the United Kingdom (in fact the full name makes it quite obvious they're distinct). This isn't f*cking complicated, and your ignorance isn't really an argument. Look up a bloody map. To make it easy for you, as repeatedly posted on this thread; And to confuse things further, we sometimes call the country Eire, like on our coins and stamps. ______________________________________________________________ Quote of the day: Democracy is a recent system of government and as I understand it there was no country with universal suffrage in 1900 - parliaments but not democracy existed. Even today ,according to the Economist, only 13 % of the worlds population live in full democracies.
Fionn1952 wrote: » Britain is not the same as the United Kingdom (in fact the full name makes it quite obvious they're distinct). This isn't f*cking complicated, and your ignorance isn't really an argument. Look up a bloody map. To make it easy for you, as repeatedly posted on this thread;
holyhead wrote: » Fionn1952 wrote: » Britain is not the same as the United Kingdom (in fact the full name makes it quite obvious they're distinct). This isn't f*cking complicated, and your ignorance isn't really an argument. Look up a bloody map. Northern Ireland is a different country to the Republic. It is part of the UK. Will remain so until the majority choose otherwise!
Fionn1952 wrote: » Britain is not the same as the United Kingdom (in fact the full name makes it quite obvious they're distinct). This isn't f*cking complicated, and your ignorance isn't really an argument. Look up a bloody map.
holyhead wrote: » Your incorrect terminology, referring to Belfast as Britain (which is not the same as the United Kingdom) seems to be the core behind this lack of clarity I'm sorry but that is semantics. I looked up the address for the Titanic Experience in Belfast and got the following address 1 Olympic Way, Queen's Road BT3 9EP, United Kingdom I'm sorry but in common parlance UK is Britain. At the end of the day people are entitled to believe what they wish too but when it flies in the face of practical reality it is a head scratch!
holyhead wrote: » Fionn1952 wrote: » You'd be wrong on multiple counts. I was born in the North, which is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, you'll notice Northern Ireland is distinct from Great Britain. Northern Ireland is not Britain, it has never been Britain and never will be. I fully accept the right of my Unionist neighbours to identify as having a British nationality, and that they were born in the United Kingdom, but to say they were born in Britain is incorrect. Moving past that, I do not live in the North. I actually live in Meath (though up until a few months ago, I was in Blanch, so likely not too far away from a fellow poster on this thread). United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is commonly known as the UK or Britain! Yes the currency is N.I. sterling but it is a variation of the currency of Scotland, England and Wales too. The currency where you now live is Euro!
Fionn1952 wrote: » You'd be wrong on multiple counts. I was born in the North, which is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, you'll notice Northern Ireland is distinct from Great Britain. Northern Ireland is not Britain, it has never been Britain and never will be. I fully accept the right of my Unionist neighbours to identify as having a British nationality, and that they were born in the United Kingdom, but to say they were born in Britain is incorrect. Moving past that, I do not live in the North. I actually live in Meath (though up until a few months ago, I was in Blanch, so likely not too far away from a fellow poster on this thread).
jh79 wrote: » Fionn1952 wrote: » Yet to, 'prove him wrong' you keep insisting that I'm British born. Pot, kettle. Wasn't aware i did that. Could you quote the post?
Fionn1952 wrote: » Yet to, 'prove him wrong' you keep insisting that I'm British born. Pot, kettle.
holyhead wrote: » Fionn1952 wrote: » The context of the GFA makes it very clear it is referring to the people from all 32 counties. Is my Irish passport any less Irish than yours because my county was abandoned during partition? Whether you accept it or not, I'm assuming you live in the north, you are living in Britain as much as a Welsh person is. Whether your county was abandoned or not it is now in Britain and will remain so until such time as the majority of the people in N.I. vote to re-unite with the Republic. An Irish passport is an Irish passport none superior to another.
Fionn1952 wrote: » The context of the GFA makes it very clear it is referring to the people from all 32 counties. Is my Irish passport any less Irish than yours because my county was abandoned during partition?
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