blanch152 wrote: » That is your opinion, but it is at variance with the facts. This is what the GFA says: "recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland." The legal position is that you are born British if you are born in the UK, but it is your birthright to identify yourself as Irish by choice. I don't know how many times I have had to explain this but you guys are like the camel with the head in the sand.
FrancieBrady wrote: » 'Identify' is the key word there blanch. You cannot 'identify' as anything until you know the difference. Take two men from Belfast, a city in Ireland - you can say with certainty that both of them are from Ireland, you have to ask both of them what their 'identity' is. That is why 'flags' and kerbstones are important to some. They are visually telling you what their identity is.
Matt Barrett wrote: » It's their right, yes. Beyond them being born on the island of Ireland. We can't be complaining about inferiority complexes as regards the British Isles on one hand and denying the geography of the island of Ireland on the other, why that's practically hypocritical. You can be a British person from the U.K. born in Ireland. You don't have to get down to the Wolfe Tones to accept where you were born, regardless of the current jurisdiction that portion of Ulster currently falls under.
blanch152 wrote: » You know with legal certainty the minute they are born that they are British citizens. That is all. They can choose to identify as Irish or British or as we increasingly find, both.
jh79 wrote: » Again Francie confusing Nationality with National Identity. National Identity is related to culture, Nationality is either your place or nation of Birth with no heirachy. If a person doesn't know that Belfast is a British city on the Island of Ireland then that is ignorance on their part. A Belfast born British national would be correcting their ignorance not affirming their identity.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Well, the fact they wouldn't know kinda consolidates my point. Belfast is a city IN Ireland which you may or may not know is under the jurisdiction of the UK.
blanch152 wrote: » Jurisdiction is what matters for citizenship, that is the whole point.
holyhead wrote: » Legally you are incorrect Francie. Irrespective of your national identity Belfast is a city in Northern Ireland, which is a component part of the United Kingdom commonly known as Britain. I would love one day for Belfast to be the second largest city in Ireland but I have to settle for the reality that it is the second largest city on the island of Ireland. What next Francie Gerry wasn't in the IRA
FrancieBrady wrote: » blanch152 wrote: » Rubbish. It is offensive to British unionists to call them Irish - that is why their identity was protected in the GFA. They are not Irish, they were never Irish, being born on the island didn't make them Irish, even for a second, which bit of that do you fail to comprehend? I fully embrace and respect their British identity as I respect the identity of the 2 Romanians who work here in my yard and the Brazilians who live and work in the town. Ian Paisley and other confident Unionists have no problem with the concept. You are too easily triggered to get 'offended' on behalf of others.
blanch152 wrote: » Rubbish. It is offensive to British unionists to call them Irish - that is why their identity was protected in the GFA. They are not Irish, they were never Irish, being born on the island didn't make them Irish, even for a second, which bit of that do you fail to comprehend?
Matt Barrett wrote: » There's a unique duality though. They can choose to be Irish or British, but Irish born by longitude and latitude. So Belfast is in/on Ireland, currently under British jurisdiction. Got it.
holyhead wrote: » Actually I don't think you have :P
Matt Barrett wrote: » If the real Dutch took over in the morning people born there would still be Irish, but they could choose to be Dutch I'd imagine.
jh79 wrote: » Belfast is a British city
Stop moaning ffs wrote: » For now. Not for much longer.
Matt Barrett wrote: » If the real Dutch took over in the morning people born there would still be Irish, but they could choose to be Dutch I'd imagine. French Polynesia; you're not born in France if you hail from Bora Bora.
jh79 wrote: » Maybe so, but a child born today in Belfast will always have been born in a British city. They will die having been born in a British city no matter what happens in the future. This isn't about partition. Its a definition ffs.
holyhead wrote: » Not quite sure if that holds true for ever amen. Someone born in Belgrade pre 1990 was born in Yugoslavia. Someone born there in 2000 was born in Serbia.
jh79 wrote: » holyhead wrote: » Not quite sure if that holds true for ever amen. Someone born in Belgrade pre 1990 was born in Yugoslavia. Someone born there in 2000 was born in Serbia. Your nationality is decided on the day of your birth by definition whatever happens in the future won't change than.
Fionn1952 wrote: » jh79 wrote: » holyhead wrote: » Not quite sure if that holds true for ever amen. Someone born in Belgrade pre 1990 was born in Yugoslavia. Someone born there in 2000 was born in Serbia. Your nationality is decided on the day of your birth by definition whatever happens in the future won't change than. And we in the North have the right to Irish OR British OR both nationalities. I am not British by birth, this right is enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement. While I've been very vocal earlier in the thread about not insisting my Unionist neighbours have Irishness forced upon them, I'd appreciate the same respect for my nationality and culture from you. There's a pretty significant case just lost by the home office regarding the presumption and forcing of British nationality among Irish people in the North. This is more in reference to your earlier posts regarding being, 'british born' than the above.
Fionn1952 wrote: » And we in the North have the right to Irish OR British OR both nationalities. I am not British by birth, this right is enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement. While I've been very vocal earlier in the thread about not insisting my Unionist neighbours have Irishness forced upon them, I'd appreciate the same respect for my nationality and culture from you. This is more in reference to your earlier posts regarding being, 'british born' than the above.
holyhead wrote: » On a serious note today is the 40th anniversary of the Narrow Water massacre and the assassination of Lord Mountbatten. Whatever your allegiance the loss of life, injury and destruction caused by the conflict in Northern Ireland was horrific. Let's hope that we never return to those days of murder and mayhem.
jh79 wrote: » Your nationality is decided on the day of your birth by definition whatever happens in the future won't change than.
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