Qelres. wrote: » Trust me You will do everything wrong even if it was allowed And that's not being smart either
Qelres. wrote: » Isolation of sockets Height of points ,distribution board Smoke/co/ heat alarms siting Main bonding/ local bonding Wiring and type of cabling Boxes fitted flush Wiring of bathroom circuits
Qelres. wrote: » Isolation of sockets
Qelres. wrote: » Height of points ,
Qelres. wrote: » distribution board
Qelres. wrote: » Smoke/co/ heat alarms siting
Qelres. wrote: » Main bonding/ local bonding
Qelres. wrote: » Wiring and type of cabling
Qelres. wrote: » Boxes fitted flush
Qelres. wrote: » Wiring of bathroom circuits
Bruthal wrote: » It won't be likely to get someone to take over another's part done installation.
GreeBo wrote: » Are you talking about ring-mains, spurs etc or actual isolation switches or something else here? This is a standard, why would I get it wrong? Wont be touching the board. Again, why would I get this wrong? Alarm in every bedroom or any room that could be isolated and not achieve the required DB level. wouldnt be touching the mains bonding (It needs to be upgraded along with the DB) Why would I get local bonding wrong? Why wouldnt I be using standard domestic wire for both lighting and sockets? I can fit boxes and have done so many times before. I dont have bathroom circuits other than appropriate IP rated spot lights. Anything else you can think okf?
listermint wrote: » Gas that the apprentices are always given the task of chasing runs fitting boxes pulling and running cables. But you'll get it wrong.....
Qelres. wrote: » They're instructed and supervised Domestic electrical work isn't rocket science but its all regulated
GreeBo wrote: » Are you talking about ring-mains, spurs etc or actual isolation switches or something else here?
Wont be touching the board.
Again, why would I get this wrong? Alarm in every bedroom or any room that could be isolated and not achieve the required DB level.
wouldnt be touching the mains bonding (It needs to be upgraded along with the DB)
Why wouldnt I be using standard domestic wire for both lighting and sockets?
I can fit boxes and have done so many times before.
I dont have bathroom circuits other than appropriate IP rated spot lights.
Even better would be if I could get a sparks to come up with the wiring plan and then come back to me when I've run it, but thats probably a slim chance.
Anything else you can think okf?
GreeBo wrote: » Hey, what are the options/implications of doing a DIY rewire but only up to first-fox/running the wires? I need to get a new DB but also the house would benefit from a rewire. However I cant get anyone to even quote for it as running the cables will be awkward (lots of chasing, tiles etc, existing sockets on skirting boards) So, is it permissible/advisable/a thing to run the wires myself and then have a RECI do the second fix? Assuming it would pass certification, are there any issues with this approach? Cheers!
2011 wrote: » I would guess that he is referring to the sockets that must have isolators to comply with the rules.
2011 wrote: » To first fix an installation wiring must be installed to the new DB.
2011 wrote: » Interlink cabling perhaps, who knows?
2011 wrote: » Why?
2011 wrote: » Perhaps you should state what "standard wiring” is then others can answer whether you have selected the correct type or not.
2011 wrote: » People often say that then they use boxes that are poorly positioned, not deep enough or the threads are gone.
2011 wrote: » You know that there is more to bathroom lighting than that?Clue: RCD protection
2011 wrote: » If you need a “wiring plan” you should not be first fixing an installation unsupervised.
2011 wrote: » Yes, lots but here are a few: 1) As this is illegal RECs generally won't be interested in risking their reputation.
2011 wrote: » 2) Although you suggest that you know how to first fix properly (and maybe you can) it is unlikely to be the case.
2011 wrote: » 3) RECs are generally concerned about getting paid from people who want to "help" in order to "save money".
Risteard81 wrote: » It is illegal and unlawful. You cannot lawfully first fix it - these are still Restricted Electrical Works. The penalty is up to 15,000 Euro fine and/or three year's imprisonment.
GreeBo wrote: » Risteard81 wrote: » It is illegal and unlawful. You cannot lawfully first fix it - these are still Restricted Electrical Works. The penalty is up to 15,000 Euro fine and/or three year's imprisonment. So if we stay away from the "first-fix" term, is there an issue with a RECI connecting up wires that he hasnt run himself? If so, how does anyone get a DB upgrade done without a whole house rewire?
Risteard81 wrote: » It It cannot legally be done. Replacing a distribution board is not comparable - the REC would only be certifying the replacement of the DB and not someone else's wiring. But much of the time replacing a DB will require extra works to correct crap or ancient wiring.
GreeBo wrote: » Perhaps, but his post/point wasn't very clear. So isolator for every inbuilt appliance, no big issue there.
I'm using "first-fix" as a catch all term for me running wires and installing boxes myself.
I wont be touching the board for obvious reasons.
Indeed, who knows what he means, interlink cabling isn't exactly rocket science either?
Because its ancient and the wrong gauge.
I meant I'm doing a standard domestic re-wire with nothing unusual other than 13amp sockets and lights.
As above I'd expect to use 2.5TWE for sockets and 1.5TWE for lights.
Well in my own house I'm unlikely to bodge the boxes and sit looking at them for the rest of my days, I'd say its far more likely that an inexperienced apprentice would fit them poorly?
Right, but couldn't/wouldn't you just RCD the whole circuit(s) at the board?
I'm assuming the RECI wouldnt just be taking my word for what I had dont and would test it...isnt that the point of a PIR?
sorry, so you are saying its illegal?
Seems like that would have been the salient point to start out with in your reply!
Other than not believing that I can fit a box correctly or read the regs on what cable to use, what do you think I cant "do properly"?
The sort of RECI I would be hiring would need to worry about getting paid by me any more that I would need to worry about him making off with my copper.
Risteard81 wrote: » It is illegal and unlawful.
Risteard81 wrote: » No, it doesn't work that way. Restricted Electrical Works are always a criminal offence for non-RECs to carry out. If you do what you're discussing then you will be guilty of a crime. The law is perfectly clear about this. Also a PIR is irrelevant - this cannot be used to certify work but only to report on the condition of an existing installation.
keithdub wrote: » Most people wont put their name to anyone else's work. Maybe offer to lift the boards up chase the walls and help with the donky work. I can see wht they might want to charge extra it's a risk taking your word.
2011 wrote: » Ultimately the circuits will all have to be fed from the DB. That is good, but cables will have to be brought to the DB so that circuits can be energised.
2011 wrote: » ....in which case it would need to be replaced to comply with the rules as part of the 1st fix.
2011 wrote: » Oven? Instantaneous shower? Two way and intermediate switching?
2011 wrote: » You know that the earth has to be the same size as the phase and that the bare type is no longer permitted? Do you know how many rooms a socket circuit can serve? How many sockets are required for a kitchen? What appliances are best on separate circuits?
2011 wrote: » When asked nobody is likely to bodge boxes yet it happens all the time :rolleyes:
2011 wrote: » That would not be advisable.
2011 wrote: » No, that is not the point of a PIR. There is no way of testing that can guarantee that a first fix has been done properly.
2011 wrote: » Completely. Sorry, I assumed that you knew as it crops up here all the time....
2011 wrote: » That does not really inspire confidence to be honest, you are just a random guy that would be perceived by many REC's as a higher risk of not paying. For the record: I am not suggesting that you are dishonest.
GreeBo wrote: » Sorry, to clarify, the 25% extra was to do all the work themselves, hence why I'm trying to run the cabling myself.
I understand that wiring is not to be carried out, I'm not talking about wiring, I'm talking about running wires. Is there not a difference under the rules/law?
Again, I'm purely talking about running cables, I wont be terminating or connecting anything.
Forget about the term "first-fix", I'm solely running cables. The REC would be doing the main bonding, replacing the DB and connecting it up.
Yes, Yes and only two-way.
Yes I do. In fact I doubt I'd be able to source TWE with bare, smaller gauge earth (other than the red & black I currently have running through my house!)
I likey would be running a at least 2 ring mains downstairs.
1 upstairs and separate for the kitchen and garage.
The number of sockets would surely depend on the gauge and the RCBO rating at the board?
I'd have 8 sockets in the kitchen, but I'd be more concerned with over loading a system rather than not having enough.
Appliances on separate circuits I'd assume would depend on the rating of the appliance, for example I would always have my oven and hob on separate circuits as I will likely switch from gas to an induction hob in the future.
Would you expect to do a better job yourself on your own house or someone elses?
In my experience unless I am paying exorbitant amounts, I get a better finish when I do jobs in my house myself.
i've seen it mentioned, why is that? (assuming you have a separate lighting circuit for the bathrooms and not just RCD all the lights, you dont want the whole house plunged into darkness)
So you buy a house tomorrow, how do you determine if the wiring is safe or not? Just pray
I know wiring (other than basic like for like replacements) is illegal, but how is running cables to be connected by a REC illegal?
We will have to agree to disagree on that one I'd afraid, I'm 100% confident that no one would be in any doubt about my willingness or ability to pay for work done.
TheChizler wrote: » So running a cable through your house counts as electrical work even if both ends are disconnected? Not arguing it or anything but just as an academic question, when does that law kick in? How is it different to running pipes or laying a floor? You can run data cables yourself no problem, so is it the guage of the cable that determines major work? If so what guage? Is it the composition? Would that mean it's illegal to use 10sq as data cable if you happened to have a bunch of it lying around? I know I'm being awkward but it's a common question on here as to what counts as major work, it's far from clear. I too would have thought you could do the grunt work of chasing and running cable in advance of a RECI finishing it off, not that you'd find a RECI who'd go along with it mind.
Risteard81 wrote: » If you do that then two things will happen as a result: A) You will go to jail. The REC will face disciplinary action from RECI and become a non-REC.
TheChizler wrote: » So running a cable through your house counts as electrical work even if both ends are disconnected?
when does that law kick in?
How is it different to running pipes or laying a floor?
I know I'm being awkward but it's a common question on here as to what counts as major work
TheChizler wrote: » also how often do people get jail time for carrying out make work in their own home?
at what stage does laying a disconnected piece of cable in someone's home become illegal?
What are the parameters?
Is it the properties of the cable and the location, or the intent of the person doing the work, or both?
2011 wrote: » Any domestic electrical work that does not meet the definition of minor works is an illegal act. Clearly that applies to first fixing.
