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DART+ (DART Expansion)

murphaph

New propoganda here but it really whets the appetite.....who knows if we'll have the nerve to do it though....

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ncounties

bk wrote: »

I agree, but just to point out, that shouldn't preclude development from happening above a ground level rail yard. Take a look at Hudson Yard in Manhattan for what is possible.

Building shopping centers, offices, etc. above bus and rail stations is pretty standard throughout Europe and I wish we did far more of it here.

For instance both Dublin and Cork could do with a private city center coach station, which could have a tall office building on top of them. Similar to the one in Galway.

Kamppi in Helsinki is a great example of such a development. They have a full underground bus station, a metro station, and a shopping centre and plaza above ground.

roadmaster

Is there going to be serious capacity issues on the Sligo line even more so than now in the future. We will have a new station at pelletstown which I would imagine delay inbound trains by a few minutes.

Jump ten years all the land between Clonsilla and confey will be built on so you would imagine an extra station or two will be built to cope with that demand for public transport so there is more trains and stops to add .

Also from what I have heard dunboyne to navan is back on track again so you would be talking huge numbers there. So if all this happens how will the Sligo line from Clonsilla to the city handle the capacity?

L1011

Resignalling, level crossing closures and more trains to Docklands. Also plenty of peak time trains are 4 car and all Docklands ones are low capacity layout - replace with 8 car DART and you get a significant capacity increase on the existing schedule

Peregrine

roadmaster wrote: »

Also from what I have heard dunboyne to navan is back on track again so you would be talking huge numbers there. So if all this happens how will the Sligo line from Clonsilla to the city handle the capacity?

Navan isn't back on the cards. Not sure where you heard that.

roadmaster

Peregrine wrote: »

Navan isn't back on the cards. Not sure where you heard that.

I work for a fund and one of our building clients mentioned they believed that it would go ahead long term

cgcsb

Navan DART isn't getting a mention in any off the dart expansion documents I've seen. If it does happen it'll be after DART expansion and possibly after DART undergrpund. I can even see a heavy rail airport link coming first

Qrt

roadmaster wrote: »

I work for a fund and one of our building clients mentioned they believed that it would go ahead long term

It’ll definitely go ahead long term, but long term is a very variable determiner.

CatInABox

Navan is the type of project that could be tacked on to some other initiative very easily. Definitely post Dart Expansion though.

It's also the type of project that could be done very wrong as well, no point sending it down the old alignment in my opinion, people don't live along that line anymore. Be better to have a new alignment along the motorway that'd serve Dunshaughlin, and other places people actually live, better.

CatInABox

Haha, bubble burst.

Planning minister asks that Navan Rail line priority be downgraded

roadmaster

Great overall planning there allow thousands of houses to be built between dunshauglin to navan but don’t prioritize a public transport project so the people that buy the houses will have to drive to the city. Euro link will certainly be happy.

D.L.R.

Hard to justify a railway to Navan with a half empty motorway already serving it.

riddlinrussell

devnull wrote: »

No FLIRTS are in service yet and the first batch due to enter service are now running late.

Just to highlight, if anyone is interested in a look at these FLIRTs, heres a video showing them running in East Anglia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl_j2dGhkik

Tomrota

D.L.R. wrote: »

Hard to justify a railway to Navan with a half empty motorway already serving it.

Yup. N7 is more in need of relief than anywhere.

Last Stop

D.L.R. wrote: »

Hard to justify a railway to Navan with a half empty motorway already serving it.

This makes zero sense.
How can you compare an inter urban motorway with a commuter rail line? You’re also assuming that everyone who would take the train is currently driving when it is usually the opposite.

Surely a better comparison would be demand for bus services? There are over 40 services from Navan to Dublin on the Nx route alone!

I’m not sure there is sufficient demand to justify the Navan rail line at the moment but incentives could be trialled to increase demand from pace m3. I thing it should be possible to include the toll in the weekly leap cap or Taxsaver ticket? This would remove the interchange penalty.

In any case, I don’t foresee DART to Navan. Pace will be the end of Dart with commuter services to Navan.

marno21

The M3 may be quiet at Navan but approaching the M50 all the way from Clonee is a mess. Widening it won't do much as the M50 is also crammed. The same issue with all the other motorways, the N11 is quiet further out but at Bray its an abomination.

D.L.R.

Last Stop wrote:

How can you compare an inter urban motorway with a commuter rail line?

The M3 isn't an interurban motorway. Its a commuter motorway.

marno21 wrote: »

The M3 may be quiet at Navan but approaching the M50 all the way from Clonee is a mess. Widening it won't do much as the M50 is also crammed. The same issue with all the other motorways, the N11 is quiet further out but at Bray its an abomination.

A Navan railway would be even more constrained at the Dublin end, squeezing onto an antiquated line which can barely handle existing services.

Not against it long term, just think we have to focus on the inner Dublin network for now.

AngryLips

D.L.R. wrote: »

A Navan railway would be even more constrained at the Dublin end, squeezing onto an antiquated line which can barely handle existing services

Are you talking about a different line altogether? The route out to Maynooth/Parkway has lots of capacity.

L1011

AngryLips wrote: »

Are you talking about a different line altogether? The route out to Maynooth/Parkway has lots of capacity.

It really doesn't - it's very constrained in terms of capacity in to Connolly for starters

CatInABox

L1011 wrote: »

It really doesn't - it's very constrained in terms of capacity in to Connolly for starters

As part of the Dart Expansion, aren't they thinking of redoing the platforms at Connolly? I'd say that'll improve the congestion.

They're also thinking of building a new Docklands station as well, I'd be surprised if that doesn't help the situation as well.

Stephen Strange

L1011 wrote: »

It really doesn't - it's very constrained in terms of capacity in to Connolly for starters

Doesn't the current dunboyne line go to Docklands rather than Connolly, assume this would be the same for Navan unless it was Dart?

CatInABox

Stephen Strange wrote: »

Doesn't the current dunboyne line go to Docklands rather than Connolly, assume this would be the same for Navan unless it was Dart?

You're right actually, I forgot that I ran into this before: In the morning and evening peak hours, the M3 Parkway trains run to Docklands (and vice versa).

During the day, The M3 Parkway trains run to Clonsilla.

djam17

Is there any futher info. re. the level crossing closures and new measures? Other then previous ashtown and coolmine drafts on the maynooth line?

LXFlyer

djam17 wrote: »

Is there any futher info. re. the level crossing closures and new measures? Other then previous ashtown and coolmine drafts on the maynooth line?

Not as yet.

We haven’t got to design stage yet.

DoctorPan

djam17 wrote: »

Is there any futher info. re. the level crossing closures and new measures? Other then previous ashtown and coolmine drafts on the maynooth line?

Tender for the Maynooth line is open until the 9th. It'll be a while before a design is made public.

roadmaster

Would the fact that Irish Rail are recruiting RE staff indicate that maybe works will start quicker than we think or is that just for enabling works?

CatInABox

The inevitable consequence of decades of next to zero investment in our rail service has finally come to fruition in an official way. Our peak hours Dart service is now so below capacity that they've had to set up a website encouraging people to stagger their morning commutes. How utterly depressing and how utterly predictable.

The Irish Times have the report here.

The actual website is peaktime.ie.

Dart Expansion programme can't come soon enough.

marno21

CatInABox wrote: »

The inevitable consequence of decades of next to zero investment in our rail service has finally come to fruition in an official way. Our peak hours Dart service is now so below capacity that they've had to set up a website encouraging people to stagger their morning commutes. How utterly depressing and how utterly predictable.

The Irish Times have the report here.

The actual website is peaktime.ie.

Dart Expansion programme can't come soon enough.

This is an absolute pisstake. Father Ted level stuff

The optics of this is going to be shocking too given the large proportion of fed up commuters around the place

CatInABox

Indeed, the first thing I thought of was this:

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LXFlyer

Given the lack of actual orders in rolling stock and the fact it’ll now be 2021 if not 2022 before anything is delivered due to government and NTA idealist dithering, this is frankly the only thing the railway company can do.

It’s a minimal cost initiative. Frankly anything that can help right now is worthwhile.

CatInABox

LXFlyer wrote: »

Given the lack of actual orders in rolling stock and the fact it’ll now be 2021 if not 2022 before anything is delivered due to government and NTA idealist dithering, this is frankly the only thing the railway company can do.

It’s a minimal cost initiative. Frankly anything that can help right now is worthwhile.

Yes, this kind of thing is the only thing that they can do, but I can't see this making any difference at all.

I suspect the real reasoning behind this isn't to actually make a difference, it's so that Irish Rail have something to point to and say that they're trying.