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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

seligehgit

Discussion of all matters relating to this contentious subject is welcome and the potential implications of same.This thread is solely for this purpose.

There appears to be a perception that the moderators are attempting to shut down discussion of this topic and direct same off to a low traffic stickied thread.Nothing could be further from the truth.Our sole motive was to confine discussion to a single thread and prevent cross thread posting which was adversely affecting the enjoyment of fellow posters.

Can we please keep posts civil and constructive in nature.

The Changes in the GAA-super thread is now for discussion of all other suggested reforms not relating to Dublin GAA.

Extra Mod Warning:
Right, a separate warning to both sides in this debate:
Firstly, any more mentioning of "financial doping" or any intimation that rules have been broken by Dublin or that Dublin have cheated are banned from now on. You can debate the issue of the funding that Dublin have received without resorting to that. There is zero evidence of it and posting about it will be considered trolling from here on in.

Secondly, this topic is, like it or not, a big talking point in gaelic football at the moment. You are more than welcome to argue your point, but posting in this thread to simply mock those on the other side or complaining about the topic is known as thread spoiling and is specifically banned in the charter (see point 8 here). No one is forcing you to click on this thread and no one is forcing you to post in it. If you don't like the topic, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

This thread is here so that all the discussion is in one place and it won't filter into other threads. This makes it easier to ignore for posters who don't really want to be involved in it. As a result, we haven't really been moderating it as severely as other threads. However, a number of posts recently from both sides are sailing too close to the wind and getting borderline personal. So please take a minute before you hit submit to ensure that your post won't fall foul of the rules. We'll have no hesitation in issuing cards and/or threadbans to posters who fail to heed this warning.

Please report any posts that you feel break the rules.

Any questions, please feel free to PM the mods.

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ToBeFrank123

99problems1 wrote: »

He's talking rubbish how it doesn't open doors being in the GAA. He's a director at what, 31 or 32?

All those top GAA players have big jobs.

All of them are ambitious and hard working when it comes to sport, so they probably bring that mentality to work as well.

The average inter county sportsman or woman is a seriously determined individual and the kind of person most companies would love to have working for them. I'm sure most work just as hard as the rest of us, with the odd exception of course.

EICVD

I for one think it’s great

EICVD

largepants wrote: »

Since 2010 and using Senior (AI and Prov), u21 (AI and Prov), Minor (AI and Prov), Senior League and All Ireland Club -

Kerry have 26 titles
Dublin have 37 titles.

But yet the West Brits claim Kerry are dominating. Gas altogether.

Sure what would people from Liverpool, Bristol, Cornwall, Devon etc know about GAA anyway?

Coillte_Bhoy

tikkahunter wrote: »

The argument there with AIG is the amount of shirts and kit they sell .The majority of People in Dublin would have a Dublin Jersey or top whether they follow GAA or not. Look i cant argue with you on the appearance money because i have no idea if some of the lads would have their own side deals going on but i have been to 2 local opening parties of Hotels in my area in the past year and a current Dublin player opened them and i know he didn't ask for a cent for doing it like a lot of other things the lad does in the community.

Well if a player is doing a free gig for a commercial entity then he's an idiot imo though i find it hard to believe tbh unless he was doing a favour for a family member of mate

tikkahunter

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Well if a player is doing a free gig for a commercial entity then he's an idiot imo though i find it hard to believe tbh unless he was doing a favour for a family member of mate

Maybe he is just a decent bloke who cares about his community and does it because he wants to, not because he is getting paid. I know that is a tough pill to swallow for the lads spouting ****e on here about the lads being mercenaries.

Coillte_Bhoy

tikkahunter wrote: »

Maybe he is just a decent bloke who cares about his community and does it because he wants to, not because he is getting paid. I know that is a tough pill to swallow for the lads spouting ****e on here about the lads being mercenaries.

I dont doubt that lads do stuff voluntarily for the community and fair play to them but opening a hotel backed by commercial interests? Come on?

gormdubhgorm

largepants wrote: »

Donegal have a chance of provincial honours. Kildare or Meath don't.

I am not just talking about provincial honours (as you well know) I am talking about competing in division 1 properly/or in the championship.

Meath and Kildare should be doing better than Mayo/Donegal on population/facilities/ geography alone.

Those very things which are said to be part of Dublin's advantages.
Yet when it come to Kildare and Meath-
all the same logic used to attack Dublin is conveniently forgotten / not applied to Kildare/Meath relative to other counties.

Gachla

So, we've looked at the Games Development Funding, 40 million has been spent on this since 2005. We've looked at sponsorship, very lucrative, about 1.5 million every year and loads of free stuff including cars, free meals etc etc. Next we'll look at some things that can be bought with the huge financial resources. All Dublin teams have sizable backroom teams. People looking after every single area when it comes to training and preparation on and off the field. For example, Dublin senior footballers have a world champion boxer working for them, their hurlers had an Olympic champion. Dublin can also pay coaches to come in to do a specific job, an example of this would be the Dublin senior footballers signing up Mark Ingle, one of the top professional basketball coaches in Ireland. He became involved in 2015, the year after Donegal beat Dublin. His impact has been huge, very noticeable on their style of play. It shows how beneficial those huge funds are to be able to buy in top coaches when required.

Bonniedog

Tipperary hurlers had 27 people working with them in "backroom." As did Limerick last year.

Dublin senior footballers are not unique in any of this. These are not fulltime jobs. there is no one working a 40 hour week doing stats on Hogan puckouts or Cluxton kickouts.

gormdubhgorm

Gachla wrote: »

So, we've looked at .

'Looked at' = your code for:

1) Baseless allegations repeated
2) Rumour
3) Conjecture
4) Pub talk
5) No real analysis - of variables and so on
6) Making up 'facts'

I have yet to see ANY post you have posted where you discuss your own claims in detail.
Your main tactic is to ask other people to do the leg work for you, as you ask the questions/make statements - but give no answers.

All with the one goal to belittle Dublin GAA, and give them no praise whatsoever.

MayoAreMagic

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I think MayoisMagic went over the top on that one as is his habit.

Apart from the AIG deal, most counties have similar tie ups and deals.

The appearance money would be something Dub players would have an advantage in too if the 6k figures are to be believed and there is no reason not to.

You might want to check that again. It wasnt me who listed out the sponsorship deals.

As for the sponsorship, i dont think other counties have quite such a repertoire of sponsors at all. They are basically sponsored for everything thet need. Mayo dont have that and neither do anyone else I know of. That begs the question, if everything is sponsored and they have relatively ittle fixed costs, how the hell are they the top spenders?

MayoAreMagic

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

'Looked at' = your code for:

1) Baseless allegations repeated
2) Rumour
3) Conjecture
4) Pub talk
5) No real analysis - of variables and so on
6) Making up 'facts'

I have yet to see ANY post you have posted where you discuss your own claims in detail.
Your main tactic is to ask other people to do the leg work for you, as you ask the questions - but give no answers.

All with the one goal to denegrade Dublin GAA, and give them no praise whatsoever.

Well you are not one to talk in fairness. Several of your long-winded monologues have been shown to be misrepresentitive of the truth (deliberately so in my view). At which point you just ignore it or say you never seen it. Your argument is patently flawed.

There is no logic in the world that changes the fact that definitively, dublin are de facto province who compete as a county, while playing at home and receiving more funding. None of your spiels can change this and nobody believes it is fair. What Im curious to see is how far you will go and how much propaganda you will push before admitting this.

salmocab

How are people suggesting sponsorship is unfair? Every county is free to get whatever sponsorship it can, is there an imaginary level where it becomes unfair? This is the weakest of all the arguments I’ve seen here and that’s saying something.

gormdubhgorm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well you are not one to talk in fairness. Several of your long-winded monologues have been shown to be misrepresentitive of the truth (deliberately so in my view). At which point you just ignore it or say you never seen it. Your argument is patently flawed.

There is no logic in the world that changes the fact that definitively, dublin are de facto province who compete as a county, while playing at home and receiving more funding. None of your spiels can change this and nobody believes it is fair. What Im curious to see is how far you will go and how much propaganda you will push before admitting this.

I never said Dublin do not have advantages that is putting words in my mouth.
But they also have disadvantages that a country man like yourself cannot appreciate/fails to appreciate.
Also when Dublin's dominance is compared to Kerry's dominance it is strikingly similar. The only real difference being that Dublin have improved in ladies football and Kerry have gone the other way. They style of play and adaptability of Dublin are the cherries on top.
---

Also if you yourself think of Dublin as a defacto province with 25% of the population surely Dublin should be getting this amount of funding maybe more - do you want the most important 'province' with Brand value to be lost to Gaelic games? That would be stupid beyond belief.

gormdubhgorm

salmocab wrote: »

How are people suggesting sponsorship is unfair? Every county is free to get whatever sponsorship it can, is there an imaginary level where it becomes unfair? This is the weakest of all the arguments I’ve seen here and that’s saying something.

They have worn out the other ones or they have been discredited so now they have moved on to this one.

gormdubhgorm

largepants wrote: »

Since 2010 and using Senior (AI and Prov), u21 (AI and Prov), Minor (AI and Prov), Senior League and All Ireland Club -

Kerry have 26 titles
Dublin have 37 titles.

Great group of lads. The only problem will be what to build the statues of granite or marble?
Plus where will they find the space?
There is plenty of room in Meath I suppose....

24 of those titles were won under Jim Gavin.....
So what you are saying is Jim is going to stay going until he hits the 27 titles?

Gachla

Bonniedog wrote: »

Tipperary hurlers had 27 people working with them in "backroom." As did Limerick last year.

Dublin senior footballers are not unique in any of this. These are not fulltime jobs. there is no one working a 40 hour week doing stats on Hogan puckouts or Cluxton kickouts.

Ah yes, it shows a big backroom team is vital. Not many counties can afford it. Of course, it helps when you have your underage structures paid for, frees up some cash.

ArielAtom

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

They have worn out the other ones or they have been discredited so now they have moved on to this one.

They want the GAA to adopt a communist approach and share the sponsorship from all counties equally😂😂😂😂

Gachla

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

'Looked at' = your code for:

1) Baseless allegations repeated

You forgot to get back to me on that. I quoted members of the Dublin County Board, employees of the Dublin County Board, a former Taoiseach etc, they all pointed out how beneficial the professional coaches have been to Dublin GAA across the board. Are you claiming they are making baseless allegations? Or are they making up facts?

gormdubhgorm

Gachla wrote: »

You forgot to get back to me on that. I quoted members of the Dublin County Board, employees of the Dublin County Board, a former Taoiseach etc, they all pointed out how beneficial the professional coaches have been to Dublin GAA across the board. Are you claiming they are making baseless allegations? Or are they making up facts?

I did on numerous occasions if you read the posts.
I specifically answered your question.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=111012837

But it seems you seem more interested in playing some odd mind-game instead.

BarryD2

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Exactly they are foootball counties they should be doing better.
It is what happens when counties let things slide.
Meath are only a division 1 team now.
Kildare are a yo-yo team between div 1/2 if they are lucky.
Is that Dublin's fault?

Yep all the other counties fault, they're useless, let things slide, should try harder yadayada.... that's the mantra. You can keep on crowing it, but the chicken coming home to roost is that Dublin will have no meaningful competition if things progress as they are. Success breeds success, in an ideal scenario for any sporting competition there should be a annual change of winner. That keeps the players and the public interested. Otherwise it becomes a boring ritual that is best avoided.

And if restoring interest means splitting the growing conurbation of County Dublin into smaller parts or amalgamating other counties, well maybe that's the way to go.

Gachla

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I did on numerous occasions if you read the posts.
I specifically answered your question.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=111012837

But it seems you seem more interested in playing some odd mind-game instead.

I apologise, I missed that. Have to be honest, I usually skip over your posts. Full of nonsense.

Just to point out some facts we've established. Dublin GAA have spent 40 million on Games Development since 2005. About half of this has come from taxpayers, the GAA, Leinster council and half has come from clubs.
The number of titles Dublin have won has increased an enormous amount. Between 1982 and 2000, Dublin won 29 titles. Between 2001 and 2019, Dublin have won more than 103 titles.
The Strategic Program Manager, former hurling manager and long standing GPO/GDA's have spoken about how much of a positive impact professional coaches have had on Dublin GAA.
Dublin receive huge sums in sponsorship. About 1.5 million yearly.

There's some of the facts we've established. There's no arguing with these because they are facts. The only issue is whether you think the millions of euro spend on Games Development had any impact on the staggering upturn in titles won by Dublin teams or whether you do not. We've yet to hear any viable theory as to how the millions of euro and huge number of professional coaches didn't bring about the huge upturn.

gormdubhgorm

BarryD2 wrote: »

Yep all the other counties fault, they're useless, let things slide, should try harder yadayada.... that's the mantra. You can keep on crowing it, but the chicken coming home to roost is that Dublin will have no meaningful competition if things progress as they are. Success breeds success, in an ideal scenario for any sporting competition there should be a annual change of winner. That keeps the players and the public interested. Otherwise it becomes a boring ritual that is best avoided.

And if restoring interest means splitting the growing conurbation of County Dublin into smaller parts or amalgamating other counties, well maybe that's the way to go.

Well I enjoy the league to be honest - I would not be too too fussed if the Provincials went.
To me the intercounty provincials are only a relic of the past that have had thier day.
The provincials slow death began when the backdoor system was brought in
They should go the way of the railway cup - a side show.
A preseason competition?

The league has been integral to the development of this Dublin team in the last decade.

gormdubhgorm

Gachla wrote: »

We've yet to hear any viable theory as to how the millions of euro and huge number of professional coaches didn't bring about the huge upturn.

Because the right people and structures have to be there is the first place.
Give 15m to leitrim GAA tomorrow where would they be in a years time, five years time/10 years time /15 years time?
They got promoted form div 4 this year would money 'buy' them a div 1 title?
A Connacht title?

I doubt it.
There might be nicer clubhouses though.

[Deleted User]

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

There is no logic in the world that changes the fact that definitively, dublin are de facto province who compete as a county, while playing at home and receiving more funding. None of your spiels can change this and nobody believes it is fair. What Im curious to see is how far you will go and how much propaganda you will push before admitting this.

There is literally all there is to this argument. I'm always stunned by how these threads go for dozens of pages when the truth is so simple and so obvious.

Dublin have received, and continue to receive, much more money from the GAA and from other sources (the government, sponsors). This money helps them to win more titles than they would otherwise. This is because money matters in sport in terms of achieving results.

Dublin also have other advantages, for instance population, home advantage etc.

By virtue of all these things, Dublin can be deemed to have an unfair advantage on other counties.

Attempts to deny these factual statements are just waffling and attempted misdirection. Dublin supporters type page after page of utter, utter ****e trying to contest what is so obviously true to anyone viewing the situation through a neutral lense.

salmocab wrote: »

How are people suggesting sponsorship is unfair? Every county is free to get whatever sponsorship it can, is there an imaginary level where it becomes unfair? This is the weakest of all the arguments I’ve seen here and that’s saying something.

Dublin are structurally advantaged by virtue of their population to have a larger, more profitable market for sponsorship. The money they get from this compounds their already unfair advantages. The money would be better used helping the game as a whole in all counties rather than just the single county which already has multiple other advantages.

Gachla

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Because the right people and structures have to be there is the first place.
Give 15m to leitrim GAA tomorrow where would they be in a years time, five years time/10 years time /15 years time?
They got promoted form div 4 this year would money 'buy' them a div 1 title?
A Connacht title?

I doubt it.
There might be nicer clubhouses though.

Oh yes, that's another level to what some have described as financial doping. Not only are there huge numbers of professional coaches, Dublin GAA's structures are overseen by highly paid officials. They have a Strategic Program Manager, Games Development Project Coordinator, Regional Development Manager, High Performance Manager. No other county board can afford to appoint these types of people. They oversee the system of developing players, design plans, assess them, improve on them and so on. Dublin pay millions on wages every year. It's paid off but it's hard to argue with those who say this is financial doping.

[Deleted User]

Look you'll never convince the biased Dublin supporters here to change their ways- they'll be sitting in Croke Park in 10 years watching Dublin win their 15th All- Ireland in a row with 100 other spectators continuing to claim that this is all because Dublin are just so smart and everyone else is so stupid. They'll never admit they have any unfair advantages.

But for an outsider looking in it is obvious.

Do you think having one million extra people to choose from compared to most counties gives you an advantage relative to other counties?

Do you think having millions and millions of euro more to spend on gaelic games (from kids all the way to the inter-county setup) in a county gives that county an advantage over every other county?

Do you think playing at home gives you an advantage on other counties?

If the answer to any of these questions is yes, then you agree Dublin are unfairly advantaged.

gormdubhgorm

gaffer91 wrote: »

Dublin are structurally advantaged by virtue of their population to have a larger, more profitable market for sponsorship. The money they get from this compounds their already unfair advantages. The money would be better used helping the game as a whole in all counties rather than just the single county which already has multiple other advantages.

Hang on look at the population

Dublin 1,214,666

Connacht: 550,742

Munster 1,280,000

Ulster: 2,108,000

Leinster (excluding dublin): 1,416,054

There are posters who have already referred to Dublin as a defacto province.
Surely this means the 'province' needs the funding.

Gachla

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Hang on look at the population

Dublin 1,214,666

Connacht: 550,742

Munster 1,280,000

Ulster: 2,108,000

Leinster (excluding dublin): 1,416,054

There are posters who have already referred to Dublin as a defacto province.
Surely this means the 'province' needs the funding.

A province needs counties. Are you suggesting Dublin should keep the funding but be split into 2 or 4 teams?

gormdubhgorm

Gachla wrote: »

Oh yes, that's another level to what some have described as financial doping. Not only are there huge numbers of professional coaches, Dublin GAA's structures are overseen by highly paid officials. They have a Strategic Program Manager, Games Development Project Coordinator, Regional Development Manager, High Performance Manager. No other county board can afford to appoint these types of people. They oversee the system of developing players, design plans, assess them, improve on them and so on. Dublin pay millions on wages every year. It's paid off but it's hard to argue with those who say this is financial doping.

So is that a yes or a no throw 15m at leitrim would they be a division 1 team in 15 years time with multiple provincials?