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Friend getting too close!!!

D13exile

A female friend that I get on brilliantly with (or did!!!) for years, as in we can talk and laugh ourselves silly for hours and we enjoy doing the same things (concerts, comedy shows, cinema etc) has stopped talking to me for the past month as I asked her for a bit of personal space as she was dropping round to my place almost every day uninvited/not calling ahead and staying for hours. Now the background is I'm divorced and have kids who live with me fulltime and therefore my "freetime" is fairly limited. She is married and has kids herself but her hubbie does most of the child minding as he can work from home. There is absolutely nothing going on between us in a sexual/romantic way but I feel that she would like there to be as she texts me up to ten times a day and is hardly ever out of my house. She always wants us to do things together, either just the two of us or with our combined children. She even suggested in June that we go away on holiday together with our kids (minus her hubbie). It was at that point that my eyes began to open and examine the relationship. I've never seen her as anything but a great friend, never had a romantic thought about her and I'd feel like I was dating my sister if something were to happen. She on the other hand has increasingly been moaning about her hubbie, who to be fair to her, doesn't appear to give a damn what she does or where she goes. While he's a nice enough guy, he appears to live in his own world and works up to 16 hours a day. Things came to a head four weeks ago when she texted me out of the blue to say she was calling round to go out together for the evening. I told her I was tired as I'd been building an extension onto my home that day and was stiff and sore from lugging blocks and mixing cement. She just wouldn't take no for an answer and so I got firm with her and said "No, I'm dog tired and going to bed early". She replied that she'd drop round and we could watch a movie together. Again I said no, I'm going to bed early and she then replied "why are you pushing me away?". Now she'd been round to my place 6 out of the last 7 days and seriously impinging on my own time with my kids by her staying up to midnight in my place. At that point I got annoyed and said don't come round, I want time to myself. She then said her marriage was hanging by a thread and I was being selfish by not being "there for her". I didn't respond as I felt that was emotional blackmail. God knows I'd listened to enough of her marital woes despite me having a lot on my own plate. This year, I'd advised her to go for marriage counselling but she said her hubbie wouldn't go. I advised her to go for counselling herself then but she said she didn't need it. I'd arranged for babysitters for my kids so I could go over to meet her for a drink so she could talk about her marital problems. I'd minded her kids so her and the hubbie could talk. However it never seemed to be enough.

So we haven't spoken for over a month and what I once thought was a great friendship now appears to be fading. While I miss the laughs and good times that we had, I now see that she was demanding an awful lot of my free time and I'm thinking perhaps it's for the best. However as we also work for the same company. it might get awkward in work as everyone knows we are/were good friends. So should I let it go or try to save the friendship but on more clearly defined terms as to where the boundaries are? As I said above, I'll never see her in a romantic light and if that is her ultimate goal, there is no point imho.

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AulWan

I'd let it go. I think you're dodging a bullet and its for the best.

A true friend would respect your request for boundaries, realise that you need time for yourself and your kids without going off in a huff or calling you selfish because you tell her you're tired, one time! Friendship is supposed to go both ways.

(off topic, but I think some of the detail you've given here is quite specific, and could be indentifying? Maybe edit a little).

Ursus Horribilis

I think the best solution here is to let this go. Even though nothing romantic happened between you, there is a real bang of "there were 3 people in this marriage" off this.

Definitely, your friendship sounds like it had moved on into inappropriate territory. You were right to pull back from this. Your friend, on the other hand, sounds like she had designs on you. Either that, or you were providing her with a convenient escape from her own problems. Neither is good from your point of view. And if she was taking up so much of your time, it has to have impacted your relationship with your own kids.

I wouldn't be so sure your colleagues thought the pair of you were just good friends. Be careful here, just in case she leads them to believe you were otherwise.

Unanimous

She obviously was into you and I think she might have not been trying with her husband because she was busy thinking you are the perfect guy and how nice she gets on with you and how things would have been different if you were her husband.
She might have been trying to end her marriage to get with you. her husband refused to go for counselling and she doesn't need personal counselling? seems like she is not telling you the role she is playing in her failing marriage
I am not sure how things managed to get this way but I would say don't for a second back down on this.
What if you found another woman and was ready to love again?
Would she not blackmail you for dumping her?
It was just an inappropriate friendship even if you were lads from childhood.
how much more two of the opposite sex. let her sort her marriage herself and leave you out if it

ILoveYourVibes

You have dodged a bullet.

She was using you and she sounds like drama.

Salthillprom

Have you any pets? If so, I'd lock them up because you might come home one day to find them in a pot on your hob. This woman seems unhinged. You dodged a bullet big-time. Run... As fast as you can. She defo wants more than just friendship. I'd avoid her as much as I could if I were you. She's being incredibly inappropriate with you and with your time too.

Annasopra

I think she pushed the boundaries way too far and you are probably better off just moving on.

I know My Sister and My Friend before both had friends that they just had to move on from for various reasons. The friends were so negative and judgemental and toxic and selfish.

fmpisces

Ah sorry to hear that OP. I echo everyone else's advice to just let her/the friendship go. Seems like she had an ulterior motive which is a non-starter as you say you'll never feel the same way as she does.
You didn't do anything wrong so head up and move on. Enjoy your time with your kids and yourself.

D13exile

Thanks for the replies and advice. Anyway, I hadn't heard from my "friend" for 5 weeks until two days ago when she sent me an email about seeing a Solicitor about her failing marriage and asking my advice as I'm divorced and have been through the family law mill. I didn't and won't respond as I've since learned quite a few things that I was blind and deaf to.

I was talking to another friend in work about this situation as she knows us both well, and she has really opened my eyes as to what was being said behind my back by my "friend". I've been told that "my friend" was telling people that "we are married to all intents and purposes ha ha ha" and that she "spends so much time" with me and "our kids get on so well together", and that she "is never out of (my) house". Guess I am pretty clueless when it comes to being manipulated but I just take people at face value until they prove otherwise. She was really talking us up as a couple to anyone who'd listen.

So that friendship is now over. Guess I'll have to be more cynical in future.

Virgil°

Sounds like she was using you as a surrogate husband for all the random couply things while her own husband was too busy to give her the time of day.

Which is obviously not a good foundation for a close platonic friendship.

hawley

D13exile wrote: »

Thanks for the replies and advice. Anyway, I hadn't heard from my "friend" for 5 weeks until two days ago when she sent me an email about seeing a Solicitor about her failing marriage and asking my advice as I'm divorced and have been through the family law mill. I didn't and won't respond as I've since learned quite a few things that I was blind and deaf to.

I was talking to another friend in work about this situation as she knows us both well, and she has really opened my eyes as to what was being said behind my back by my "friend". I've been told that "my friend" was telling people that "we are married to all intents and purposes ha ha ha" and that she "spends so much time" with me and "our kids get on so well together", and that she "is never out of (my) house". Guess I am pretty clueless when it comes to being manipulated but I just take people at face value until they prove otherwise. She was really talking us up as a couple to anyone who'd listen.

So that friendship is now over. Guess I'll have to be more cynical in future.

I don't see a lot wrong with what she said to your workmate. It just sounds like a couple of jokey comments to me. In what way do you think that she was manipulating you? She does seem a bit full on and honestly, I couldn't take someone like her, but I think that you're being a bit unfair to her. It's hard to lose such a close friend. I think that you should give her another chance; she clearly needs someone to talk to at the moment. Maybe send her an email, chat a little about her divorce and then lay down how you see her as being only a friend and that if you are to be close again, that she respects your space and free time and not to expect to be calling over every night.

D13exile

Thanks but I don't think she'd respect any boundaries that I'd lay down. It's been something of a relief these past few weeks that I can sit down in peace at night and not have someone ring the doorbell and then be there until after midnight. Or I can go out with my kids and she doesn't have to come along too. When I think about it, I was spending as much time, if not more, with her than I did with my ex. Guess I've gotten to like having my own time to myself.

Scarinae

If you're feeling relief than I think that answers the question as to whether you did the right thing!

hawley

D13exile wrote: »

Thanks but I don't think she'd respect any boundaries that I'd lay down. It's been something of a relief these past few weeks that I can sit down in peace at night and not have someone ring the doorbell and then be there until after midnight. Or I can go out with my kids and she doesn't have to come along too. When I think about it, I was spending as much time, if not more, with her than I did with my ex. Guess I've gotten to like having my own time to myself.

She sounds a bit like someone who is crazily intense and then after a while it can just wear you down. It seems like her husband was keen to get way from her too, if he was working sixteen hour days and looking after the children. I definitely feel that she was using you as a way of escaping from her home life; she seems to have no boundaries and spending that much time in your house was very unfair on you and your kids.

tara73

D13exile wrote: »

Thanks for the replies and advice. Anyway, I hadn't heard from my "friend" for 5 weeks until two days ago when she sent me an email about seeing a Solicitor about her failing marriage and asking my advice as I'm divorced and have been through the family law mill. I didn't and won't respond as I've since learned quite a few things that I was blind and deaf to.

I was talking to another friend in work about this situation as she knows us both well, and she has really opened my eyes as to what was being said behind my back by my "friend". I've been told that "my friend" was telling people that "we are married to all intents and purposes ha ha ha" and that she "spends so much time" with me and "our kids get on so well together", and that she "is never out of (my) house". Guess I am pretty clueless when it comes to being manipulated but I just take people at face value until they prove otherwise. She was really talking us up as a couple to anyone who'd listen.

So that friendship is now over. Guess I'll have to be more cynical in future.

relieved you got it so quickly. She's just what you realised, a manipulative, self centered person who wanted to use you (as a surrogate husband).

I'm so happy for you you realised this and could put an end to this game. all the best for you and your kids !

Lotus Flower

Lucky escape OP, those comments about being married to all intents and purposes are quite alarming

Mortelaro

Lotus Flower wrote: »

Lucky escape OP, those comments about being married to all intents and purposes are quite alarming

I don't think they're *that* alarming but I'd agree with the OP's decision
Sometimes too much is too much
What's probably a few notches up on the scale of alarming alright but in a funny way (ie you could laugh about it) is her effectively wanting the OP to know that she'll soon be a single divorced lady and available (for him no doubt)
No contact at all is the best move but OP ,hows that going to work if you are work colleagues?

meeeeh

I think you are dead right to cut the contact. Continue to talk to her and advise her on divorce and you will be the guy who broke her marriage. Also keep the whole mess as private as possible at work. You don't want nasty gossip to spread about her. With her marriage breaking down she will suffer anyway and you don't want things to get worse. For her sake and also for your sake because you will need to keep things professional at work.

[Deleted User]

So her husband works 16 hours a day, babysits their kids, has no problem with her spending 7 nights a week until midnight with a divorced male neighbour... A sea of red flags OP. Despite what no doubt some will say, this kind of intense friendship with a member of the opposite sex is totally unworkable in a marriage, particularly with kids involved. Stay well clear.

D13exile

Once again, thanks for the opinions and advice.

It's a tough call deciding to lose a friend, but a real friend wouldn't have a hidden agenda imo (as in me and her getting together). There were other things that irked me these past few months like her glancing over to look at my phone if I got a text, or her pouting if I got a phonecall from another friend. Then she was booking tickets for events like concerts without even asking me. As I'm a single father of five, money is tight and I resented her "spending" my money on tickets when it would leave me strapped for cash for a month, as I always insisted on paying her back. However the last time this happened, I told her I couldn't pay her back but she still insisted we go. She even arranged for her hubbie to mind my kids!!!

As for the hubbie, he doesn't give a sh1te about the time she spends with me. Any other guy would at least be wondering wtf is going on if his missus was out to the early hours with another guy on a very regular basis. Perhaps he is relieved that she's gone out and given him some space?

She's off work for this month and so I won't see her until September. Wonder how that'll go when she comes back? While I'd be chatty as usual, I feel she'll have a pout on her as I've seen her turn against others who've upset her in here. Nothing I can do about her behaviour though.

Lotus Flower

Mortelaro wrote: »

I don't think they're *that* alarming but I'd agree with the OP's decision
Sometimes too much is too much
What's probably a few notches up on the scale of alarming alright but in a funny way (ie you could laugh about it) is her effectively wanting the OP to know that she'll soon be a single divorced lady and available (for him no doubt)
No contact at all is the best move but OP ,hows that going to work if you are work colleagues?

They are alarming IMO, especially in the context of her behaviour towards the OP as a whole

zoobizoo

D13exile wrote: »

There were other things that irked me these past few months ….Then she was booking tickets for events like concerts without even asking me. ….. She even arranged for her hubbie to mind my kids!!!

Perhaps he is relieved that she's gone out and given him some space?

While I'd be chatty as usual, I feel she'll have a pout on her

I think that you need to take some responsibility for your actions in this.

You hung out with a married woman who was obviously unhappy in her marriage and you had no issue with hanging out with her, and you'd "talk and laugh ourselves silly for hours and we enjoy doing the same things (concerts, comedy shows, cinema etc)".... your tone has changed here from great nights out to "booking tickets without even asking me"

And now it seems like the easiest way to make yourself feel better is to give her the cold shoulder and put it all on her and start making snide remarks about this "female friend that I get on brilliantly with (or did!!!) for years" and implying that her husband can't stand her either (this long term friend of yours).

When I was single, I didn't hang out with married women because it wasn't appropriate. If a single female friend of mine wanted to hang out and go to the cinema or a show or hang out for hours.... it was obvious what was going on.

She might have started really liking you in the recent past and had gone from "friends" to "maybe more" in her head or she was just over reliant on you as a person to talk to. BUT, you allowed this to happen.

You're actually being quite cruel about her now - and this is someone with whom you got on really with for so long.

bottlebrush

zoobizoo wrote: »

I think that you need to take some responsibility for your actions in this.

You hung out with a married woman who was obviously unhappy in her marriage and you had no issue with hanging out with her, and you'd "talk and laugh ourselves silly for hours and we enjoy doing the same things (concerts, comedy shows, cinema etc)".... your tone has changed here from great nights out to "booking tickets without even asking me"

And now it seems like the easiest way to make yourself feel better is to give her the cold shoulder and put it all on her and start making snide remarks about this "female friend that I get on brilliantly with (or did!!!) for years" and implying that her husband can't stand her either (this long term friend of yours).

When I was single, I didn't hang out with married women because it wasn't appropriate. If a single female friend of mine wanted to hang out and go to the cinema or a show or hang out for hours.... it was obvious what was going on.

She might have started really liking you in the recent past and had gone from "friends" to "maybe more" in her head or she was just over reliant on you as a person to talk to. BUT, you allowed this to happen.

You're actually being quite cruel about her now - and this is someone with whom you got on really with for so long.

They got on really well as long as she was getting her own way. When he asked for space she wouldn't take no for an answer.
He was a friend, she was a demanding manipulator and the really skilled ones are the most charming and likeable. Easy to have great laughs with - of course they are.
Op may have been a bit naive but no crime in that. His intentions were honourable as he only ever saw her as a friend. In that context it's easy for things to be 'let' happen especially if he's never encountered behaviour like that before. The main thing is that he is not letting it happen any longer.

D13exile

My last comment on this.......

I have never "used" this woman in any shape or form. In fact, when she needed help (her car breaking down several times, doing DIY work around her house, minding her kids etc), I always stepped up to help her out because as a single parent, I know how hard it is to manage work, kids, house etc by yourself and any help is appreciated. As her hubbie practically lives in his own world, she started looking to me more than him I suppose. I did this as a friend, and I did not want or expect anything in return. However, giving her the benefit of the doubt, perhaps I was naieve and she saw my friendship as something more.

She has become too overpowering in the past few months despite my attempts to make her back off. Turning up at my home unnanounced and uninvited 5 or 6 nights out of 7 is too bloody much. I've got 5 kids to look after and an old house that I'm trying to refurbish in the evenings/weekends, never mind a full time job. So having all my free time taken over is way beyond friendship. Telling her I'm tired and don't want to go out only makes her turn up with a bottle of wine and her saying "lets drink this". Telling her I'm staying in with my kids or even going out with them results in her turning up with her kids at my house or "coincidentally" being at the same cinema/park I bring my kids to. Telling her I'm going to the doctor (I've a medical condition that requires monthly check ups) will see her parked in my driveway at 7am to bring me there, when I'm fully capable of driving myself. When I tell her I'm planning on visiting my mother after the doctor, she still insists on coming along to my mum's house. I feel I can't actually have time to myself anymore and she has effectively tried to take control of my life.

Finally, I was off work for a month a short while ago and I've since found out that she told my friends and colleagues in work not to call me as I "didn't want to be disturbed", as she told them. I had said nothing of the sort to her. She also told me that "nobody was asking for you" when in fact they all were concerned how I was. Eventually they ignored her directions not to call me and they informed me that they were sorry for imposing but they were concerned for me as my "friend" would tell them nothing. That to me was the last straw as she was trying to cut me off from friends in work. As one of them has said to me recently, she was becoming a "bunny boiler" who was giving daggers to anyone, particularly women who talked to me in work.

Now that's the full story. What was a good friendship descended into something scary. I wanted to water it down in my original post but as expected, I knew it would be turned round that I "encouraged" her all along and I have a part to play in this. Well if being a true friend who helps others out without expecting anything in return makes me guilty, so be it. As for her being a married woman, what the hell has that to do with anything? I never laid a finger on her, nor would I to any married woman. Guess that thinking comes down to a person's morality which in my case extends to never ever making designs on someone's wife and thus threateneing their marriage.

Thanks again to all for the opinions and advice. I've thought long and hard about ending this friendship but its probably for the best as I have enough on my plate without being accused of breaking up someone else's marriage. Hopefully she'll now start focussing on her own family and things will work out for her.

ElizaBennett

OP, leaving aside her gender or marital status or anything else, this level of contact from ANYONE would be way too much - and I include in that a live-in partner. No one wants constant company and to be accompanied everywhere at all times. You must have felt incredibly stressed wondering if and when she was going to turn up and it was incredibly unfair of her to act in this way. Have firm words with her if necessary and hope that your real friends will guess the truth if she turns nasty. All the best

kunst nugget

She doesn't sound like she is mentally well. That sort of obsessive behaviour is really quite scary and the fact you are working together could lead to some major issues for you. Have you got a HR department that you can deal with if things start to go majorly south in your professional relationship?

bottlebrush

kunst nugget wrote: »

She doesn't sound like she is mentally well. That sort of obsessive behaviour is really quite scary and the fact you are working together could lead to some major issues for you. Have you got a HR department that you can deal with if things start to go majorly south in your professional relationship?

I don't think it will come to that. People like her know what they are doing is wrong because they think if they were to go after what they want the right way they might not get the result they want. The best thing for the op to do now is not discuss it any more with work colleagues. And if this woman demands an explanation from the op as to why he has backed off, it's best for him to spell out reasons were due to his own needs for example he needs to spend more quality time with the children and so on, and not list off all the things she was doing wrong. She may or may not be vindictive but it's very likely that deep down she knows well she overstepped the mark and will be cute enough not to broadcast it.

kunst nugget

bottlebrush wrote: »

I don't think it will come to that. People like her know what they are doing is wrong because they think if they were to go after what they want the right way they might not get the result they want. The best thing for the op to do now is not discuss it any more with work colleagues. And if this woman demands an explanation from the op as to why he has backed off, it's best for him to spell out reasons were due to his own needs for example he needs to spend more quality time with the children and so on, and not list off all the things she was doing wrong. She may or may not be vindictive but it's very likely that deep down she knows well she overstepped the mark and will be cute enough not to broadcast it.

The fact that she was telling other work colleagues that he said he didn't want to be disturbed when he was off sick for a bit while telling the OP that nobody was asking after him would suggest she has no problem trampling over his professional relationships and causing rifts between him and his colleagues. That would be a real red flag in terms of this going beyond simple infatuation. That's obsessive and controlling behaviour. He needs to protect himself and his job. I think having an informal chat with someone in HR just in terms of protecting himself against potential problems that might arise in the workplace would help.

D13exile

ElizaBennett wrote: »

OP, leaving aside her gender or marital status or anything else, this level of contact from ANYONE would be way too much - and I include in that a live-in partner. No one wants constant company and to be accompanied everywhere at all times. You must have felt incredibly stressed wondering if and when she was going to turn up and it was incredibly unfair of her to act in this way. Have firm words with her if necessary and hope that your real friends will guess the truth if she turns nasty. All the best

Incredibly stressed is exactly how I would describe it as I never knew when my doorbell would ring and once opened, she'd march right in without even asking "can I come in?". I could have had guests in the house but that wouldn't have stopped her either. I have ignored the doorbell a few times but then she starts knocking on the sitting room window. I even pretended I was asleep but she rang my phone while continuing knocking on the window. What was I to do, keep the blinds closed?, park my car away from my house? I just couldn't get any peace in the past few months.

bottlebrush wrote: »

I don't think it will come to that. People like her know what they are doing is wrong because they think if they were to go after what they want the right way they might not get the result they want. The best thing for the op to do now is not discuss it any more with work colleagues. And if this woman demands an explanation from the op as to why he has backed off, it's best for him to spell out reasons were due to his own needs for example he needs to spend more quality time with the children and so on, and not list off all the things she was doing wrong. She may or may not be vindictive but it's very likely that deep down she knows well she overstepped the mark and will be cute enough not to broadcast it.

She and I are part of a group of close friends in work who socialise together. She's the one who's been dropping hints that we may be becoming an item.
However since then I've found out that she's been trying to cut this group loose so its just me and her left. If she does demand an explanation as to why I don't want to see her anymore, I'll stick to using "I" instead of the more confrontational "you", i.e. I want more time with my children, I want time to myself to relax, I want to work on my house etc. However she'd counter with "our kids get on great together" (actually my kids aren't too fond of hers as her kids live on their phones), or "we can go for a walk together" or "I'll help you with your house". I'll just have to be polite but firm with her.

kunst nugget wrote: »

The fact that she was telling other work colleagues that he said he didn't want to be disturbed when he was off sick for a bit while telling the OP that nobody was asking after him would suggest she has no problem trampling over his professional relationships and causing rifts between him and his colleagues. That would be a real red flag in terms of this going beyond simple infatuation. That's obsessive and controlling behaviour. He needs to protect himself and his job. I think having an informal chat with someone in HR just in terms of protecting himself against potential problems that might arise in the workplace would help.

I agree that she is obsessive and controlling but I am annoyed at myself for not realising this sooner. Telling me that none of my colleagues asked how I was (they did) while also telling them that I didn't want to be disturbed (a lie) is crazy behaviour. That alone is enough to put some distance between us.

This thread has been cathartic in that getting these thoughts out of my head and getting anonymous opinions has helped. I don't like losing a friend but this thread has made me face up to the fact that she wasn't a true friend after all. Once again, I appreciate the opinions.

bucketybuck

D13exile wrote: »

If she does demand an explanation as to why I don't want to see her anymore, I'll stick to using "I" instead of the more confrontational "you", i.e. I want more time with my children, I want time to myself to relax, I want to work on my house etc. However she'd counter with "our kids get on great together" (actually my kids aren't too fond of hers as her kids live on their phones), or "we can go for a walk together" or "I'll help you with your house". I'll just have to be polite but firm with her.

Do it your way of course, but I would note that there is a lot to be said for not even making excuses, as a grown man you don't have to justify yourself if you don't want to.

"I don't want to and I don't need a ****ing reason" is a statement even the most clueless of friends can understand, and its one that gives you the power over your own decisions rather than needing to find ways to convince her to "let" you do your own things.

Panthro

Go with your gut OP and for what it's worth your gut is spot on. She's trying to control.
I'd take your route, cut the chord completely bar a courteous hello and goodbye.
You've your own stuff to be looking after, 5 kids and your health, and a house.
Good luck to her.