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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

seligehgit

Discussion of all matters relating to this contentious subject is welcome and the potential implications of same.This thread is solely for this purpose.

There appears to be a perception that the moderators are attempting to shut down discussion of this topic and direct same off to a low traffic stickied thread.Nothing could be further from the truth.Our sole motive was to confine discussion to a single thread and prevent cross thread posting which was adversely affecting the enjoyment of fellow posters.

Can we please keep posts civil and constructive in nature.

The Changes in the GAA-super thread is now for discussion of all other suggested reforms not relating to Dublin GAA.

Extra Mod Warning:
Right, a separate warning to both sides in this debate:
Firstly, any more mentioning of "financial doping" or any intimation that rules have been broken by Dublin or that Dublin have cheated are banned from now on. You can debate the issue of the funding that Dublin have received without resorting to that. There is zero evidence of it and posting about it will be considered trolling from here on in.

Secondly, this topic is, like it or not, a big talking point in gaelic football at the moment. You are more than welcome to argue your point, but posting in this thread to simply mock those on the other side or complaining about the topic is known as thread spoiling and is specifically banned in the charter (see point 8 here). No one is forcing you to click on this thread and no one is forcing you to post in it. If you don't like the topic, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

This thread is here so that all the discussion is in one place and it won't filter into other threads. This makes it easier to ignore for posters who don't really want to be involved in it. As a result, we haven't really been moderating it as severely as other threads. However, a number of posts recently from both sides are sailing too close to the wind and getting borderline personal. So please take a minute before you hit submit to ensure that your post won't fall foul of the rules. We'll have no hesitation in issuing cards and/or threadbans to posters who fail to heed this warning.

Please report any posts that you feel break the rules.

Any questions, please feel free to PM the mods.

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threeball

holyhead wrote: »

threeball wrote: »

So the increase in silverware in most grades and codes after the financial injection is just a coincidence?

Your implying that Dublin has bought it's success are you not? Completely ruling out factors such as skill, dedication and hunger.

Not implying, I'm telling you its had a huge impact. Even their own GDOs say so but its all in the thread. I suggest you take a read through.

[Deleted User]

holyhead wrote: »

The only way to get around the money argument is for all revenues to be diverted to central council and get split 32 ways but that is unlikely to ever happen.

This is actually a good suggestion in an ideal world. Obviously doesn't have to be a 100% even split, can take population etc into account. And of course, long term funding averages from all sources.

holyhead

gaffer91 wrote: »

This is actually a good suggestion in an ideal world. Obviously doesn't have to be a 100% even split, can take population etc into account. And of course, long term funding averages from all sources.

Wouldn't taking population into account bring you back to the same problem again?

gormdubhgorm

gaffer91 wrote: »

I've already explained to you why amalgamation is less important- Dublin have been financially doped so successfully that they would still dominate against amalgamated counties such as sligo/Letirim/ Roscommon because of their financial doping a other advantages. I suggest having a read back to get more of a grasp on this.

Not true a baseless statement Dublin would etc....
You seem away with the fairies to be honest.

How would joining counties togehter not make them stronger and give them a larger playing pool more expertise etc.

That is the cognitive dissonance that gets me for those who call for splitting Dublin.
When the shoe is on the other foot and amalgamaion is mentioned suddenly it is a different story.

It is as if all the arguments for splitting Dublin suddenly would not apply in reverse to an amalgamation of smaller counties.

Population
Players
Expertise

That amuses me no end which again shows me the myopic level of thinking.

Personally I would have no problem with Dublin being split as long as the weaker counties are strengthened through amalgamation.
It would make it much fairer for all concerned and it would lead to root and branch change in the GAA.

[Deleted User]

holyhead wrote: »

Wouldn't taking population into account bring you back to the same problem again?

Not fully because Dublin have been grossly overfunded on a per capita basis even accounting for population.

holyhead

gaffer91 wrote: »

Not fully because Dublin have been grossly overfunded on a per capita basis even accounting for population.

Through sponsorship or how?

[Deleted User]

Gachla wrote: »

holyhead wrote: »

Through sponsorship or how?

Through sponsorship, through money Bertie diverted to Dublin and through Games development funds- see Gachla's post quoted. This is verified by many sources if you google it.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

holyhead wrote: »

Doesn't the domination of Kerry between the mid 70's to the mid 80's debunk the financial doping argument. KK have won 11 AI hurling finals since 2000 with a fraction of the population and fiscal resources of Dublin. Domination always brings jealousy.

It would if they were consistently beating a team that had the same funding as Dublin currently do. Which they weren't, so your comparison makes no sense.

threeball

holyhead wrote: »

gaffer91 wrote: »

Not fully because Dublin have been grossly overfunded on a per capita basis even accounting for population.

Through sponsorship or how?

Over €220 per regesitered player as opposed to most others getting less than €20.

MayoAreMagic

holyhead wrote: »

Doesn't the domination of Kerry between the mid 70's to the mid 80's debunk the financial doping argument. KK have won 11 AI hurling finals since 2000 with a fraction of the population and fiscal resources of Dublin. Domination always brings jealousy.

No it just proves that Dublin did in fact not need any extra funding to dominate the game. It was achievable by a county with one tenth of their population and a minute percentage of their cashflow. The fact that they needed what they needed to manage to match them is more a reflection on dublin than anyone else. It isnt a record to be jealous of.

Dubs seem to think that the ends justify the means. They really dont. Id be ashamed and embarrassed of the current setup if I were a dub. Genuinely, I would. How can anyone take any real pleasure or satisfaction in needing the thing to be basically rigged in your favour, to start winning something? Have people any pride at all? I cant fathom it. Id hate nothing more. How do people not have that bit if pride gnawing at them, to genuinely be the best? It's the whole point of sport ffs. Like who would want to win the world 100m when they were the given a 50 metre head start? Who wants to be that guy? Nobody. Yet this is what dublin are doing.

The only real way they can do it is to take off the safety wheels and go out and compete from an equal footing. Are you really as good as you say? Go with 2 teams then and prove it. Otherwise, you will get no credit for these hollow wins, because it isnt deserved. Plain and simple.

gormdubhgorm

gaffer91 wrote: »

You're incredibly blinkered and I would say brainwashed. Honestly, even for a Dublin fan. Everytime something you've posted is debunked you come back with the same cliches and slightly reworded arguments- the impact of money on sports, the "golden generation" stuff, usually in incredibly wordy and long-winded posts. It's people like yourself who rather see the game destroyed rather than made fairer, and you don't have the insight to see it.

The last three points you wrote are absolutely absurd inferences to draw by the way- you really haven't a clue.

I would say the exact opposite in fact - there is a strong 'anti dublin' bias on this thread

1) I can see through what the most vitriolic posters are doing - they do not want to give Dublin ANY credit for thier success

2) They repeat phrases from hacks repeatedly - as if they have no minds of thier own

3) Their suggestions seem to have no clue what Dublin is like on the ground

4) They massage statistics

5) Their main focus just seems to get Dublin

The funny part is many of these sheep who are anti-Dublin are not even GAA members.
And even if they are they refuse to bring a motion against Dublin's finances because they do not see the point
It is all barstooler stuff.

gormdubhgorm

gaffer91 wrote: »

Not fully because Dublin have been grossly overfunded on a per capita basis even accounting for population.

In fact Dublin has been UNDERFUNDED for decades previous accounting for population.
I would argue that Dublin deserves credit for working in such constraints.
In fact for a county to have 33% of the population they are still underfunded.
(Dublin get 22% games development money)

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/analyst-claims-dubs-actually-being-underfunded-939277.html

(from the article)
Kevin McStay was talking about Roscommon, and he was one of the ones who most recently that brought this up, about how can Roscommon compete with Dublin when they have so much money going at them?

“But on a pro-rata basis, Roscommon have six Games Promotion Officers, but if you look at the population spread between the two counties, again, we should have about 84 or 85, if you were to take pro-rata from where Roscommon is at the moment. So you have to put all of this into perspective.”

MayoAreMagic

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

In fact Dublin has been UNDERFUNDED for decades previous accounting for population.
I would argue that Dublin deserves credit for working in such constraints.
In fact for a county to have 33% of the population they are still underfunded.

Who do you think you are kidding here?

For starters, they dont even have 33% of the population of the republic or ireland, never mind the entire 32 counties.

[Deleted User]

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

In fact Dublin has been UNDERFUNDED for decades previous accounting for population.
I would argue that Dublin deserves credit for working in such constraints.
In fact for a county to have 33% of the population they are still underfunded.

My God. Are you really that biased? This is literally fake news. I suggest contacting the Russian government and asking if they have any job openings, you'd fit in well. There has been dozens, if not hundreds, if not thousands, of well researched and verified posts and articles detailing the many ways Dublin have been overfunded relative to every other county.

I think there was some lad on a Dublin GAA podcast recently spouting the same ****e- his arguments were promptly debunked as well.

gormdubhgorm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Who do you think you are kidding here?

For starters, they dont even have 33% of the population of the republic or ireland, never mind the entire 32 counties.

Population of Dublin = 1,904,806

Population of Ireland = 4,784,000

gormdubhgorm

gaffer91 wrote: »

My God. Are you really that biased? This is literally fake news. I suggest contacting the Russian government and asking if they have any job openings, you'd fit in well. There has been dozens, if not hundreds, if not thousands, of well researched and verified posts and articles detailing the many ways Dublin have been overfunded relative to every other county.

I think there was some lad on a Dublin GAA podcast recently spouting the same ****e- his arguments were promptly debunked as well.

I don't see much debunking going on.
I see lots of guff and rehashing of phrases from a Kildare hack - but not much independent thought.

MayoAreMagic

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I would say the exact opposite in fact - there is a strong 'anti dublin' bias on this thread

1) I can see through what the most vitriolic posters are doing - they do not want to give Dublin ANY credit for thier success

2) They repeat phrases from hacks repeatedly - as if they have no minds of thier own

3) Their suggestions seem to have no clue what Dublin is like on the ground

4) They massage statistics

5) Their main focus just seems to get Dublin

The funny part is many of these sheep who are anti-Dublin are not even GAA members.
And even if they are they refuse to bring a motion against Dublin's finances because they do not see the point
It is all barstooler stuff.

There is a strong pro-fairness attitude on this thread. If dublin are mentioned regularly then that tells a story about dublin.
You yourself haven't made a single point that hasnt been debunked conclusively. Your repetition ad nauseum of these points is just trolling to my mind.

Sheep breeder

gaffer91 wrote: »

This is actually a good suggestion in an ideal world. Obviously doesn't have to be a 100% even split, can take population etc into account. And of course, long term funding averages from all sources.

Isn’t that what JP McManus done last year and worked out for each county, with the big and small getting the same money,

gormdubhgorm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

There is a strong pro-fairness attitude on this thread. If dublin are mentioned regularly then that tells a story about dublin.
You yourself haven't made a single point that hasnt been debunked conclusively. Your repetition ad nauseum of these points is just trolling to my mind.

Go on debunk away so.
I have yet to see it and I have read all the articles, I have seen the major holes in the likes of your arguments - which are always biased generalisations or rehashed from the same source.

gormdubhgorm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

There is a strong pro-fairness attitude on this thread. If dublin are mentioned regularly then that tells a story about dublin.
You yourself haven't made a single point that hasnt been debunked conclusively. Your repetition ad nauseum of these points is just trolling to my mind.

As for the pro-fairness....

On this thread so far it has been claimed -

1) Dublin have not raised the bar - yet Dublin have professional coaches
(showing cognitive dissonance - as it has to be one or the other)

2) Dublin's funding is the sole reason for thier success - showing a blinkered bias against Dublin

3) Jim Gavin is not an a nice individual according to an 'unnamed source'

4) Cluxton is not a good player at all...

MayoAreMagic

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Population of Dublin = 1,904,806

Population of Ireland = 4,784,000

And you think having 1 team is reasonable on those figures...

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

As for the pro-fairness....

On this thread so far it has been claimed -

1) Dublin have not raised the bar - yet Dublin have professional coaches
(showing cognitive dissonance - as it has to be one or the other)

2) Dublin's funding is the sole reason for thier success - showing a blinkered bias against Dublin

3) Jim Gavin is not an a nice individual according to an 'unnamed source'

4) Cluxton is not a good player at all...

I am actually with you on some of this, a lot of people are making daft claims.

MayoAreMagic

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Go on debunk away so.
I have yet to see it and I have read all the articles, I have seen the major holes in the likes of your arguments - which are always biased generalisations or rehashed from the same source.

Its already been debunked several times on this thread alone. You can spiel out your propaganda all you want, but that is a fact and clear for everyone to see. You have lost, keeping on talking doesnt change that.
I put an argument to you regarding your point on other counties outspending dublin. It was conclusively disproven, you just ran away from it, which is exactly as I expected to be honest.

You might think you are getting a rise out of 'da culchies' here but what you are doing isnt clever, its obvious. Speaking in generalisations relentlessly and then accusing others of doing it to try to wind them up - old hat, sorry. Any plan b?

MayoAreMagic

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

As for the pro-fairness....

On this thread so far it has been claimed -

1) Dublin have not raised the bar - yet Dublin have professional coaches
(showing cognitive dissonance - as it has to be one or the other)

2) Dublin's funding is the sole reason for thier success - showing a blinkered bias against Dublin

3) Jim Gavin is not an a nice individual according to an 'unnamed source'

4) Cluxton is not a good player at all...

So what? Im not the keeper of the thread, what do you want me to do about it?

Your points have been disproven. Repeating them as nauseum from this point only discredits you.

gormdubhgorm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

And you think having 1 team is reasonable on those figures...

Considering it is 39% of the population of Ireland and well over 20% of the population of the island of Ireland

1,904,806 NI

4,784,000 ROI

Total = 6688806

Dublin = 1,904,806

It is commendable that Dublin manage to achieve so much success while there are huge population areas with only one club - Finglas or Clondalkdin for example.

I would not mind if Dublin were split IF weaker counties were amalgamated where required.
As I would view that as fair.
But it is a lot of work logistically and would require a change in mindset from supporters across the board.

[Deleted User]

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Population of Dublin = 1,904,806

Population of Ireland = 4,784,000

did you just count

kildare, meath and wicklow

as being in dublin?

hint: yes, you did

gormdubhgorm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

So what? Im not the keeper of the thread, what do you want me to do about it?

Your points have been disproven. Repeating them as nauseum from this point only discredits you.

Where have they being disproven - you keep saying it I have yet to see it.

[Deleted User]

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Considering it is 39% of the population of Ireland and well over 20% of the population of the island of Ireland

1,904,806 NI

4,784,000 ROI

Total = 6688806

Dublin = 1,904,806

It is commendable that Dublin manage to achieve so much success while there are huge population areas with only one club - Finglas or Clondalkdin for example.

I would not mind if Dublin were split IF weaker counties were amalgamated where required.
As I would view that as fair.
But it is a lot of work logistically and would require a change in mindset from supporters across the board.

did you just use

your (incorrect) population figure for dublin

and plug it in as the population of NI

hint: yes, you did

if you arent on a windup....god help us all

gormdubhgorm

Deleted User wrote: »

did you just count

kildare, meath and wicklow

as being in dublin?

hint: yes, you did

Correct, I was wondering why it was way more than the 22%
I associated the word 'great' with Dublin and read the Greater Dublin number!

It should be

1,214,666 Dublin
1,871,000 NI
4,784,000 ROI
6,655,000 Island of Ireland

So Dublin is 25% of the ROI and 18% of the Island according to the figures I have found.
So the DCB funding looks only slightly underfunded on the basis of population

[Deleted User]

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Correct, I was wondering why it was way more than the 22%
I associated the word 'great' with Dublin and read the Greater Dublin number!

ha yr some buck! have to give bonus points for that