First Up wrote: » "Brexiter reveals he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about shock". Funny.
Valhallapt wrote: » UK saying it’ll end FoM from day one no dealhttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-eu-brexit-freedom-of-movement-ends-november-boris-johnson-priti-patel-home-office-a9064376.html I know FoM deals with employment and social welfare etc, and that EU citizens can still fly there on holiday, but one would think that having an open border with Ireland could cause a issue here. What’s to stop EU citizens entering the U.K. without going through their border force? I.e. being completely unregistered as having entered the U.K.?
quokula wrote: » Given that Corbyn voted against the withdrawal agreement and in favour of amendments for a second referendum, while Clarke voted for the withdrawal agreement and against a second referendum (but outside of voting record their rhetoric is near identical, both wanting to exit while remaining in the customs union), it's utterly bizarre that the Lib Dems would support Clarke. And that's before you get to the constitutional convention that the leader of the opposition should be next in line to form a government. Or before you think about the fact that in addition to alienating Labour, Clarke wouldn't carry most of his own party which is increasingly pro-Brexit, so how he could command a majority is a mystery. It looks very much like the Lib Dems care more about trying to play politics and get one over on Labour than stopping Brexit.
prawnsambo wrote: » That's one way of looking at it. But you do have to put your hands over your face and peek through your fingers to get that view if you're in any way objective. Because the objective view is the leader of one party is suggesting; not herself, or any other party leader, but an old chap who has no future in politics, but crucially will attract the one thing all the other parties can't. Rebels from the government party.
quokula wrote: » As leader of the fourth largest party with 14 MPs she’d be a bit of a laughing stock if she nominated herself. The Lib Dem’s look to be playing the same game as Boris’ fake EU negotiations, not trying to actually achieve anything but going into a general election trying to blame everyone else for the chaos to win seats.
prawnsambo wrote: » I'm not seeing any direct refutation of my view on this. There's only one way to outvote the government and that's with the support of Tory rebels. All Corbyn seems to be intent on is getting the top job. And quite frankly he seems to be enabling Johnson in getting his hard brexit. So that he can use the chaos to win number 10.
Limpy wrote: » Quite frankly the Tory rebels have no choice. When it comes down to a zero sum game to decide they will have to pick Corbyn. That's what he's waiting for. So he just needs to hang on till 31/10 and he could become Pm. The tories managed to get 3 prime ministers elected out of this referendum so maybe someone else deserves a chance.
fash wrote: » It was the best deal on offer. The next deal will be a surrender agreement with whatever parts of the UK that remain - requiring the UK to comply with the same terms but incur more cost to compensate for not taking the "best deal" and limiting the backstop to NI only.
reslfj wrote: » If it ends up with a 'No Deal' Brexit and much need for the backstop, the EU27 will have to rethink its unilaterally actions - long haul lorries, planes etc. - and let the UK feel the full effect of the 'No Deal' immediately. We are not going to punish the UK. But we should not do anything mitigating the loss of agreements unless it is absolutely vital for the EU27 itself. And believe me, the results of a 'No Deal' will be more than hard enough to literally kill the UK economy. It is OK for the people of the UK to stay out of the EU. But it's not OK to force a closure of the land border in Ireland or not giving full legal rights to the about 5 million (UK+EU27) citizens now living legally out of their own country. The UK must simply be forced to accept the full backstop ASAP. No backstop will badly hurt mostly NI but also Ireland and risk the peace on the island too. It is just not acceptable. Lars PS! Paying the £39bn or whatever the UK owes, is far less urgent.
Imreoir2 wrote: » If there is any method to Johnsons madness, it is to hold an election in the first days of no-deal Brexit, hopefully (for him) win a majority which allows him to throw the DUP under his big red bus, and agree a NI only backstop.
reslfj wrote: » The UK must simply be forced to accept the full backstop ASAP. No backstop will badly hurt mostly NI but also Ireland and risk the peace on the island too. It is just not acceptable.
Valhallapt wrote: » brickster69 wrote: » Yes, for EU laws not to be higher than UK laws. My friends from Derry shudder at the thought of this.
brickster69 wrote: » Yes, for EU laws not to be higher than UK laws.
Berserker wrote: » Who is going to force the UK to accept the full backstop?
Imreoir2 wrote: » If there is any method to Johnsons madness, it is to hold an election in the first days of no-deal Brexit, hopefully (for him) win a majority which allows him to throw the DUP under his big red bus, and agree a NI only backstop. The EU should not do anything that would make that outcome harder if it seems like this is his strategy, don't make it harder for your adversary to give you what you want. If he fails, or his successor fails to deliver, then crashing the UK economey remains in the EU arsenal. The trouble with taking the nuclear option is that you have no leverage left over your opponent.
Melanchthon wrote: » What like Eamonn McCann a lad that actually marched on what your refencing about his views on the EU
looksee wrote: » Brickster you quoted the post requesting that you name just one benefit of leaving the EU and you went off on a tangent - I would really like to hear one solid reason for leaving, one real advantage?
Valhallapt wrote: » UK saying it’ll end FoM from day one no deal I know FoM deals with employment and social welfare etc, and that EU citizens can still fly there on holiday, but one would think that having an open border with Ireland could cause a issue here. What’s to stop EU citizens entering the U.K. without going through their border force? I.e. being completely unregistered as having entered the U.K.?
reslfj wrote: » The CTA is using the same registrations and rules for people arriving in UK and in Ireland*. Any (non criminal) EU citizen with a passport can enter the UK just by showing their passport at the UK point of entry (Eurostar, ferry port or airport). Arriving to Ireland with the same passport will let you into the CTA, too. I know that the CTA has or has had some sloppy rules - like different visa rules in UK and Ireland for people from ZA and from some tiny Pacific island states. I think this will be fixed. The CTA is not law but an understanding. Given that the CTA has worked from before the UK and Ireland joined the EEC in 1973 and both countries has agreed the CTA should be the GFA basis for the open border for people - it has not been a problem with Brexit. When I as an EU citizen can fly to London, show my passport and is allowed in, why should I take the trouble to fly to Dublin and pass the land border ? For people with papers/passports allowing entry borders can't be used to control permanent stay or work (at least not for 90 days) The UK borders has always been under full UK+Irish control and not EU control. Lars
After scoring among the top 10 most worsened countries in the 2018 FSI, the United Kingdom is this year the fourth-most worsened country, The United Kingdom has again seen increases in its indicator scores for Group Grievance, Factionalized Elites, and State Legitimacy, among the same indicators that have been driving the country’s spiral over the past decade —indeed, more long-term, the United Kingdom is now ranked as the 15th most worsened country on the FSI since 2009. Much of the current turmoil can be attributed to the country’s farcical efforts to make good on the 2016 referendum where, after a highly divisive —and arguably, disingenuous and even dishonest —campaign, a slim majority of Britons voted in favor of leaving the European Union. Given that the government’s efforts to execute “Brexit” have gone from bad to worse in the early months of 2019, it is likely that the United Kingdom’s score could easily have been much worse —and may well be in the 2020 FSI.
One further worry is the External Intervention Indicator in terms of vast amounts of dark money going towards the Brexit campaign and more recently the Brexit party. There have also been millions spent on dark ad and Facebook targeting. Whether this is ultimately Russian or ultra-right wing US money is as yet unclear.
Enzokk wrote: » I seem to have fallen foul of the mods, so a repeat of my previous post. This is a mad decision. If a nurse from Spain goes home and returns after the 1st November they will deport her as she will want to work in the UK and is not going for a holiday only.
Valhallapt wrote: » Hmm while it is possible just to show a passport, I think they are now routinely scanned and cross referenced with SIS 2, the UK will not have access to SIS 2 on day one no deal. I am open to correction but I don’t believe IE shares entry and exit info with the U.K. outside of SIS2? Perhaps they did in the past..
jimmycrackcorm wrote: » It's expected that the Spanish nurse currently working in the UK world have already applied for settled status and so be allowed to return to work there. Interestingly, I saw a report that since the 16 referendum, the NHS has recruited 4000 Asian nurses and medical staff to replace EU workers who have left.
