The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

Bridge93 wrote: »

Right so your solution to solve inequality is to reverse the inequality. Sounds logical. Your argument can be whittled down to just weaken Dublin, everything else doesn’t matter and how it’s done doesn’t matter. Even if it continues to kill the game as it’s dying now

My solution is to split Dublin into four teams so population and financial doping advantages are more evenly dispersed rather than concentrated as they are now.

My argument is to level the playing field- if this means Dublin are affected disproportionately, this just means they are advantaged currently.

Also, you're aware this is an internet forum? I haven't done a powerpoint presentation with fully costed plans which account for every conceivable problem that might arise FFS. The question is: Would splitting Dublin help to level the inequities in the inter-county game currently? It doesn't matter what county you're from, the answer to that question is a resounding yes.

As I've pointed out previously, what's actually killing the game is Dublin's unfair dominance being built as it is from a platform of unfair advantages.. The GAA must take urgent action to correct this

Bridge93 wrote: »

Interestingly I work with a guy on the extended mayo panel, one in the Roscommon XV and one in the Cavan XV. Each of them has said they have no interest at all in beating Fingal or Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown or whatever. They want to beat Dublin. Different mindset I suppose when it’s highly ambitious and high achieving athletes rather than people moaning down their keyboard

Interestingly I work with two guys in the Mayo panel, two guys on the Roscommon XV and two on the Cavan XV. Each of them said they'd have a lot of interest in beating Fingal or Dun Laoghaoire- Rathdown or whatever.

What a ridiculous anecdote by you- totally unverifiable, probably completed invented and proves absolutely nothing. You'll have to do better.

gaffer91 wrote: »

.
The choice is: Do we want to allow Dublin and their financially doped success to destroy the inter-county game or do we want to try and save our sport? You want the former, I want the latter.

If anything has been debunked in this thread surely it is the phrase 'financially doped' as that implies:

1) It is somehow illegal or underhanded - it is not

2) The phrase implies that more financial funding automatically equates to success - I have given various examples and stated why this is not the case - in the GAA
Example - that was the case Parnells would be a superclub and Derry GAA would be doing better than Donegal GAA because Derry get more funding - for example

3) The phase assumes it does not make a difference who is in management, what the structure, plan, or who players are - it will equal success no matter what. (Which is an insult to all of those involved)

Personally I suspect those who use the phrase are not 'true gaels'. And do not understand how much money Dublin brings into the association as a whole which are then funneled back into the game all over the country. Which is the real ironic part for me.
It is very myopic thinking in my view.

gaffer91 wrote: »

Interestngly I work with two guys in the Mayo panel, two guys on the Roscommon XV and two on the Cavan XV. Each of them said they'd have a lot of interest in beating Fingal or Dun Laoghaoire- Rathdown or whatever.

What a ridiculous anecdote by you- totally unverifiable, probably completed invented and proves absolutely nothing. You'll have to do better.

I really couldn’t care less whether you believe me or not. No one who ever talks to anyone ever can believed if that’s the case without breaching privacy. Keep crying down your computer while the guys out competing look to improve themselves and challenge themselves against the best

Gachla wrote: »

Do you agree with them or not? It's a pretty simple question.

I said yes I do but thier statement implies an implicit assumptions:

1) The plan and structure are correct
2) The management are of high quality
3) Dublin GAA were being run inefficiently for many years - making improvement more likely (no u21 football team for example)
4) And obviously players have some level of talent to begin with - the level of talent depends on the level of success

At the moment we happen to be on the high end of the scale for football - but not hurling/camogie - despite over a decade of funding hurling has regressed since 2013 at intercounty level - and Dublin have done nothing in camogie.
Whether that is caused by lack of a talent squad or manager is for others to decide.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

If anything has been debunked in this thread surely it is the phrase 'financially doped' as that implies:

1) It is somehow illegal or underhanded - it is not

2) The phrase implies that more financial funding automatically equates to success - I have given various examples and stated why this is not the case.
If that was the case Parnells would be a superclub and Derry GAA would be doing better than Donegal GAA because Derry get more funding - for example

3) The phase assumes it does not make a difference who is in management, what the structure, plan, or who players are - it will equal success no matter what. (Which is an insult to all of those involved)

Personally I suspect those who use the phrase are not true gaels. And do not understand how much money Dublin brings into the association as a whole which are then funneled back into the game all over the country.
It is very myopic thinking in my view.

Another terrible, terrible post by you. You're on a roll in fairness.

Financially doped implies that the Dublin success is unfair, not attainable or replicable by any other county and gives them an unfair advantage on every other county. It also implies that achieved a measure of success that would not have been possible without the money. All of these things are very obviously true, to basically everyone who isn't a blinkered, biased Dub like yourself.

What you did was cherrypick a few nonsense examples and ignored all the vast amount of evidence posted to the contrary about the impact of money in sport.

Money helps achieve more success in sport than would otherwise be possible. The more money the greater the success. Again, this seems to be obvious to everyone but yourself. It's been posted in great detail here the ways the money was spent by Dublin to ensure their success- go back and have a read.

I take umbrage to the "not true gaels" comment- absolutely pathetic. Coming from a man who'd prefer the inter-county game be destroyed rather than give an inch and admit very obvious facts- money matters in sport and Dublin have many unfair advantages that have helped to ensure their success.

Bridge93 wrote: »

I really couldn’t care less whether you believe me or not. No one who ever talks to anyone ever can believed if that’s the case without breaching privacy. Keep crying down your computer while the guys out competing look to improve themselves and challenge themselves against the best

I don't believe you because it's absolute nonsense. The fact you're so defensive tells me you do care. I forgive you though.

Right rather than debate the point, you’ll attack the poster and brush it off as untrue. All county players want Dublin split. Says a lot about you and your baseless argument. You haven’t a clue what your talking about. Throwing out suggestion with zero thought behind them. Unsurprising

The funding issue can be solved without some laughable suggestion at splitting dublin

Bridge93 wrote: »

Right rather than debate the point, you’ll attack the poster and brush it off as untrue. All county players want Dublin split. Says a lot about you and your baseless argument. You haven’t a clue what your talking about. Throwing out suggestion with zero thought behind them. Unsurprising

There's no point debating some completely unverifiable anecdote. I do think you're inventing it though, for sure.

I'm sure it varies by player whether they want Dublin split- there is no uniform opinion (except, suspiciously, in your little tale).

The suggestion has a lot of thought behind it. You don't seem to be able to comprehend it properly though for whatever reason.

Bridge93 wrote: »

The funding issue can be solved without some laughable suggestion at splitting dublin

Nah, Dublin have been financially doped for so long and so successfully, to such a great extent, that equalising funding will now not be enough. They'll have to be split to level the playing field.

Bear in mind they get millions more than everyone else from the sponsorship partners also.

Your suggestion is split Dublin, the rest will sort itself. Has anybody from any county board suggested it as a reasonable possibility?

Bridge93 wrote: »

Your suggestion is split Dublin, the rest will sort itself. Has anybody from any county board suggested it as a reasonable possibility?

You came up with some half baked objections because you don't want Dublin to be split because you want their unfair advantages to be continued. I was able to deal with these in about 10 seconds of thought.

I'm not saying it will be a cure-all but it will certainly make things better and fairer than the status quo.

I think there have been suggestions to split Dublin since the early 2000s at least. The financial doping and the ruination of the inter-county game has added to the urgency

How do we know Dublin in 4 is ‘fair’ whatever that means? Why not 6? Or 2?

Bridge93 wrote: »

How do we know Dublin in 4 is ‘fair’ whatever that means? Why not 6? Or 2?

It's fairer than currently and that's the most important thing. You're acting like this is a scientific experiment- it's not.

gaffer91 wrote: »

You came up with some half baked objections because you don't want Dublin to be split because you want their unfair advantages to be continued. I was able to deal with these in about 10 seconds of thought.

I'm not saying it will be a cure-all but it will certainly make things better and fairer than the status quo.

I think there have been suggestions to split Dublin since the early 2000s at least. The financial doping and the ruination of the inter-county game has added to the urgency

You have backup for these suggestions no doubt? Otherwise you know it’s just nonsense in your own words

gaffer91 wrote: »

Another terrible, terrible post by you. You're on a roll in fairness.

Financially doped implies that the Dublin success is unfair, not attainable or replicable by any other county and gives them an unfair advantage on every other county. It also implies that achieved a measure of success that would not have been possible without the money. All of these things are very obviously true, to basically everyone who isn't a blinkered, biased Dub like yourself.

What you did was cherrypick a few nonsense examples and ignored all the vast amount of evidence posted to the contrary about the impact of money in sport.

Money helps achieve more success in sport than would otherwise be possible. The more money the greater the success. Again, this seems to be obvious to everyone but yourself. It's been posted in great detail here the ways the money was spent by Dublin to ensure their success- go back and have a read.

I take umbrage to the "not true gaels" comment- absolutely pathetic. Coming from a man who'd prefer the inter-county game be destroyed rather than give an inch and admit very obvious facts- money matters in sport and Dublin have many unfair advantages that have helped to ensure their success.

I am glad you take umbrage because 'financial doping' nasty phrase borrowed from soccer fraternity. You are insulting the greatest generation of football players that has ever played the game.
You obviously do not love the sport and can not appreciate greatness.

You are implying that money is the sole reason for Dublin's success and that is blatantly not true - again look at regression - in hurling camogie - regression at underage in u20 level in football even.

Anyone who uses the phrase 'financial doping' should stick to other sports because they are not real GAA fans - they do not appreciate - nuance - greatness and class.
Those people should hang thier heads in shame.

Also -
Who brings in the most money to the GAA ?= Dublin
Who brings in the biggest attendances? = Dublin
Who is the biggest brand and biggest draw in the GAA? = Dublin
Who are tasked with fostering gaelic games in over 20% of the population? = Dublin

When the East Leinster strategy kicks in are people going to moan about that?

gaffer91 wrote: »

It's fairer than currently and that's the most important thing. You're acting like this is a scientific experiment- it's not.

You really don’t have a clue. What competent organization acts like this. The status quo has to change but this ‘we’ll see what happens’ attitude is crazy

Bridge93 wrote: »

How do we know Dublin in 4 is ‘fair’ whatever that means? Why not 6? Or 2?

And there is little thought of logistics/practicalities as well when those statements are made.
When in reality amalgamating smaller counties would be much easier - much like club mergers at club level

Bridge93 wrote: »

You have backup for these suggestions no doubt? Otherwise you know it’s just nonsense in your own words

You're tying yourself up in knots. Speak more coherently.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You obviously do not love the sport and can not appreciate greatness.

Clearly you're the one who doesn't love the sport my little friend. As you'd rather see it destroyed at inter-county level rather than Dublin have their unfair advantages rectified.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You are implying that money is the sole reason for Dublin's success and that is blatantly not true - again look at regression - in hurling camogie - regression at underage in u20 level in football even.

I've literally said countless times it's not the only reason for success.

I think Gachla has dealt fairly comprehensively with the other sports and underage groups so just go back and have a read of his posts.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Anyone who uses the phrase 'financial doping' should stick to other sports because they are not real GAA fans - they do not appreciate - nuance - greatness and class.
Those people should hang thier heads in shame.

Anyone who doesn't appreciate the impact financial doping has had on Dublin's success should stick to other sports because they are not real GAA fans. They do not appreciate how millions of euro more than every other county (combined with other advantages) will translate into results.
Those people should hang their heads in shames

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Also -
Who brings in the most money to the GAA ?= Dublin
Who brings in the biggest attendances? = Dublin
Who is the biggest brand and biggest draw in the GAA? = Dublin
Who are tasked with fostering gaelic games in over 20% of the population? = Dublin

When the East Leinster strategy kicks in are people going to moan about that?

Who is ruining the game at inter-county level because of their financially doped success? Dublin
Who plays most of their games at home and still doesn't come close to filling the stadium? Dubin
Who does comparatively poorly in GAA membership relative to county population compared to other counties? Dublin

See, two can play that ridiculous game.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

And there is little thought of logistics/practicalities as well when those statements are made.
When in reality amalgamating smaller counties would be much easier - much like club mergers at club level

I've already explained to you why amalgamation is less important- Dublin have been financially doped so successfully that they would still dominate against amalgamated counties such as sligo/Letirim/ Roscommon because of their financial doping a other advantages. I suggest having a read back to get more of a grasp on this.

Doesn't the domination of Kerry between the mid 70's to the mid 80's debunk the financial doping argument. KK have won 11 AI hurling finals since 2000 with a fraction of the population and fiscal resources of Dublin. Domination always brings jealousy.

holyhead wrote: »

Doesn't the domination of Kerry between the mid 70's to the mid 80's debunk the financial doping argument. KK have won 11 AI hurling finals since 2000 with a fraction of the population and fiscal resources of Dublin. Domination always brings jealousy.

Christ, here we go again. It truly is round and round in circles on this thread.

Please just search the thread for the answer to this terrible argument.

threeball

holyhead wrote: »

Doesn't the domination of Kerry between the mid 70's to the mid 80's debunk the financial doping argument. KK have won 11 AI hurling finals since 2000 with a fraction of the population and fiscal resources of Dublin. Domination always brings jealousy.

So the increase in silverware in most grades and codes after the financial injection is just a coincidence?

[QUOTE=gormdubhgorm;111013018. You are insulting the greatest generation of football players that has ever played the game.

Kerry from the mid 70's to mid 80's not deserving of just respect?

briany

I'd say that if you're a Dub, and you enjoy the current dominance of the team, you shouldn't feel guilty about it. Dublin's never going to have the moral high ground on the matter.

If Dublin beat other teams, it's "Well, they have the people, the money, the facilities, etc."

If Dublin get beaten, it's "We beat Dublin. And we did it in spite of all their people, money and facilities."

So there never comes a point where those who are bitter about Dublin's success will turn around and go, "Fair play, Dublin. Fair play."

@gaffer91 - Again I given various examples of where money does not = success in the GAA

But you continue to blindly follow the phrases of hacks/half baked journalists who are only looking for clicks/readership.
From your repeated use of the phrase I can see the brainwashing has worked for you - much like Trump's 'Lock her up' or 'crooked Hilary'.
Those who use the phrase 'financial doping' and fail to give this Dublin team any create are not GAA fans or real sports fans.
To me it is inductive of the mindset of those individuals and the class of the particular individuals. It is up there with 'Dublin Dave'.
It immediately takes away any persons credibility using such phrases as shows

1) They are easily manipulated by media who use the phrase
2) Unappreciative of great sportsmen and sport in general
3) Do not really understand how the GAA works and think it is like Soccer

threeball wrote: »

So the increase in silverware in most grades and codes after the financial injection is just a coincidence?

Your implying that Dublin has bought it's success are you not? Completely ruling out factors such as skill, dedication and hunger.

holyhead wrote: »

Kerry from the mid 70's to mid 80's not deserving of just respect?

I think this Dublin team has now bypassed that Kerry era as they are too consistent - also they can vary thier style of play imo

The only way to get around the money argument is for all revenues to be diverted to central council and get split 32 ways but that is unlikely to ever happen.