The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

gaffer91 wrote: »

Don't have any doubts that it will persist my friend- just look at what happened in Leinster.

Splitting Dublin four ways would actually go quite a way to rectifying the current unfair imbalances.

Where are these four teams going to play? Outside Parnell do the other three get funding to build fit for purpose grounds? Or are they forced to share Parnell Park? Will they end up staying in Croke Park? That’s 3 Dublin teams who will never ever get a home game. Is that not a complaint others have now?

ArielAtom

threeball wrote: »

They 100% will. It already happens in club where local identity is far more profound. Not a chance people won't show up to support even a modestly successful representative team.

I wouldn’t.

Bridge93 wrote: »

If what’s happening at the minute persists ( I have my doubts whether it will) I agree it’ll kill the game and has to be fixed. But if you think dividing or amalgamating teams is going to solve it you’re kidding yourself.

Don't have any doubts that it will persist my friend- just look at what happened in Leinster.

Splitting Dublin four ways would actually go quite a way to rectifying the current unfair imbalances.

Regardless, splitting Dublin because of population is stupid. Did someone not show Dublin’s playing numbers not to be outrageously out of line? Per capita the sports hold a fraction of the popularity they do in other counties. Presumably the hurlers are split too?
We never hear complaints over India competing in cricket with countries over 300 times smaller than them. India before anyone asks also hoover up the majority of the funds too. The BCCI as good as run the International Cricket Council. International hockey populations the same. Some soccer nations and rugby ones dwarf others in both population and funding. Yet GAA is the only one I hear arguments to split teams up on population grounds.

So if Dublin is split in 4, is cork split into 2? Galway into 2? Why not keep splitting counties up until Leitrims population can fairly be deemed equal?

Funding is an argument that can and should be sorted. Even the home advantage is easy to solve at HQ.

threeball

Bridge93 wrote: »

Splitting Dublin up, or amalgamation of others for that matter, is as much of a death knell for inter county Gaelic games as anything else. People simply will not buy into it in any guise.

They 100% will. It already happens in club where local identity is far more profound. Not a chance people won't show up to support even a modestly successful representative team.

gaffer91 wrote: »

That's not true. The actual death knell for inter-county Gaelic games (or football at least) is endless Dublin dominance built on a platform of multiple unfair advantages. It has happened in Leinster and we're in the midst of it for the All Ireland.

If what’s happening at the minute persists ( I have my doubts whether it will) I agree it’ll kill the game and has to be fixed. But if you think dividing or amalgamating teams is going to solve it you’re kidding yourself.

Bridge93 wrote: »

Splitting Dublin up, or amalgamation of others for that matter, is as much of a death knell for inter county Gaelic games as anything else. People simply will not buy into it in any guise.

That's not true. The actual death knell for inter-county Gaelic games (or football at least) is endless Dublin dominance built on a platform of multiple unfair advantages. It has happened in Leinster and we're in the midst of it for the All Ireland.

Splitting Dublin up, or amalgamation of others for that matter, is as much of a death knell for inter county Gaelic games as anything else. People simply will not buy into it in any guise.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

I really don't see how splitting Dublin would work. From what I can see, most Dubs wouldn't support a North Dublin team or a Fingal team or whatever it might be. It would have to be done from underage and even then it would be hard.

The rivalry that Dubs have between different parts of the city would translate well into inter-county football.

Regardless, pretty soon most non-Dubs won't be supporting their inter-county teams either because all games will just be rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic as a prelude to getting walloped by the financially doped juggernaut (likely at their home ground). Can't see public interest in that maintaining for very long.

The financial doping isn't the only issue- population is also a very big factor as well. Splitting Dublin would help deal with both these problems.

threeball

odyssey06 wrote: »

Gachla wrote: »

How can you explain Dublin ladies, Dublin underage and Dublin clubs along with men's football and hurling all improving at the same time? Some coming from nowhere?

I don't think it needs much explanation. Given the popularity of GAA in Dublin, it was only a matter of time, with a County board and a proper plan, their potential translated to success on the field. Often in sports, it can take failure to spur success in sleeping giants. I don't think Germany would have destroyed Brazil in 2014 world cup, had German FA not reacted to Germany's embarrassing defeats to Croatia in 1998, England in 2001 and being outclassed by Brazil in 2002 world cup final.
Based on registered players, there is nothing unusual about Dublin's success, all that is unusual is that it was so long in coming. The senior football team is over-achieving at the moment, thanks to a combination of the right manager and a golden generation (as Kerry and Kilkenny have in previous eras). But they should be winning 3-5 titles per decade unless they have the misfortune to come up against era defining teams like Micko's Kerry, Boylan's Meath or another storm from Ulster. This is their era.

You keep going on about the plan. The plan without money is useless. I've a plan to build 800 apartments in Dublin and make a killing. All I need is someone to put up 20 million to make it happen.

Luckily for Dublin they have a willing benefactor.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

I really don't see how splitting Dublin would work. From what I can see, most Dubs wouldn't support a North Dublin team or a Fingal team or whatever it might be. It would have to be done from underage and even then it would be hard.

gaffer91 wrote: »

Dublin will have to be split as even rectifying the funding now will not be able to undo the harm done by the GAA over the last 15 years.

Dublin will never be split unless Dublin wants to be split so more guys can play senior inter county.. and if that happens it will only be a matter of time before theres an all Dublin Leinster final.
And then an All Ireland final with two Dublin teams...
So be careful what you wish for.

Kerry have 37 titles and no one says split them up. But Dublin start beating Kerry and its their turn to be top dogs and some people cant bear it.

Deleted User wrote: »

All this talk about Dublin... while Kilkenny play their 15th All Ireland final since 2000. Funny world

odyssey06 wrote: »

The senior football team is over-achieving at the moment, thanks to a combination of the right manager and a golden generation (as Kerry and Kilkenny have in previous eras). .

After 93 pages on this thread and 144 on the previous thread, it's so wearying that people come on to just the same tired tripe that has been dealt with dozens of times already.

Kilkenny are completely different from Dublin. This is obvious from even a cursory glance. The unfair advantages Dublin have would still need to be dealt with even if they're weren't winning.

This isn't a golden generation, it's a never ending supply of top class footballers, developed by years of financial doping. There are other unfair advantages of course, the money isn't the only issue.

For all the people claiming "this will end soon"- what do you think about the Leinster championship? It's completely dead as a competition. I know Dubs will come on now and claim it's because other county boards don't have their act together, but every other non-Dub in Leinster being a clown doesn't hold up. There is something more sinister afoot here- it's all the unfair advantages Dublin have making than completely dominant. The All Ireland is heading the same way.

Dublin will have to be split as even rectifying the funding now will not be able to undo the harm done by the GAA over the last 15 years.

odyssey06 wrote: »

It was a catalyst ... the oil in the engine so to speak but it was not the engine itself.
Dublin should be competing and winning titles based on registered players and popularity of the sports.

40 million spent on coaches since 2005 is quite expensive oil, I think you'd be more likely to buy the engine for that much. Even Dublin County Board members and employees of Dublin County Board admit the huge effect the coaches have had, it's not in their interest to state this so their word can't really be doubted. I know it's not in the interests of Dublin supporters to admit this either but sometimes you just have to face up to the facts.

Gachla wrote: »

It's always very unusual when teams come from nowhere to win multiple All Ireland's. Do you think it had anything to do with the huge number of professional coaches who began their employment with Dublin GAA at around the same time as the sudden improvement across so many different areas of Gaelic Games?

It was a catalyst ... the oil in the engine so to speak but it was not the engine itself.
Dublin should be competing and winning titles based on registered players and popularity of the sports.

odyssey06 wrote: »

None of those results are unusual based on number of registered players.

Are counties to be set in stone as they were in 1999?

It's always very unusual when teams come from nowhere to win multiple All Ireland's. Do you think it had anything to do with the huge number of professional coaches who began their employment with Dublin GAA at around the same time as the sudden improvement across so many different areas of Gaelic Games?

Gachla wrote: »

But Dublin ladies never won an All Ireland prior to this sudden upsurge in fortunes. Dublin never won an under 20/21 All Ireland. No Dublin club had ever won a hurling All Ireland. Dublin hurlers never won anything with their own players. The list goes on. How does that fit into your theory? They weren't sleeping giants in any of these. Quite opposite to what you said, it's very, very unusual.

None of those results are unusual based on number of registered players.

Are counties to be set in stone as they were in 1999?

Martina1991

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Mayo and Tyrone do not have the issues with Greenfield sites that Dublin have also I feel there is misconception of how long it takes to travel in Dublin.

17k is nothing in the country but it could take 2/2.30 hours to travel from the Northside to Tallaght /UCD for example

And how long do you think it takes to travel from Dublin to Bekan or Castlebar a few times a week?

Like a lot of counties, players live and work in Dublin and have to travel back for training.

I think Donegal were even having Michael Murphy fly to Donegal via helicopter in 2012 for training.

But yeah, Tallaght to UCD is a bitch of a commute.

odyssey06 wrote: »

I don't think it needs much explanation. Given the popularity of GAA in Dublin, it was only a matter of time, with a County board and a proper plan, their potential translated to success on the field. Often in sports, it can take failure to spur success in sleeping giants. I don't think Germany would have destroyed Brazil in 2014 world cup, had German FA not reacted to Germany's embarrassing defeats to Croatia in 1998, England in 2001 and being outclassed by Brazil in 2002 world cup final.
Based on registered players, there is nothing unusual about Dublin's success, all that is unusual is that it was so long in coming. The senior football team is over-achieving at the moment, thanks to a combination of the right manager and a golden generation (as Kerry and Kilkenny have in previous eras). But they should be winning 3-5 titles per decade unless they have the misfortune to come up against a team like Micko's Kerry, Boylan's Meath or another storm from Ulster.

But Dublin ladies never won an All Ireland prior to this sudden upsurge in fortunes. Dublin never won an under 20/21 All Ireland. No Dublin club had ever won a hurling All Ireland. Dublin hurlers never won anything with their own players. The list goes on. How does that fit into your theory? They weren't sleeping giants in any of these. Quite opposite to what you said, it's very, very unusual.

MayoAreMagic

odyssey06 wrote: »

Explain to me how if professional was the key part of that sentence why are our results not identical regardless of what professional coach is holding the position?
Was Billy Walsh replaced by a volunteer?

A very good coach can make all the difference. Like Jim Gavin.

Well I would say professional coach was the key phrase, in the sense that it was the loss of a paid expert in the field that made the difference. Therefore, obviously his contribution was telling. There was no mention of losing a volunteer making a telling difference. Thereby we can dismiss outright this idea that the professional coaches are not improving quality and that volunteers are what make the difference.

Jim gavin is a good manager no doubt. I dont think he is really involved in coaching skills though. Id imagine those things are a requisite before you get near jim gavin. Not exactly the same. However, gavin is, it is reasonable to assume, a professional coach. There is debate about his payment per se, but there is definitely benefit in kind of some description. He isnt a volunteer anyway...

Gachla wrote: »

How can you explain Dublin ladies, Dublin underage and Dublin clubs along with men's football and hurling all improving at the same time? Some coming from nowhere?

I don't think it needs much explanation. Given the popularity of GAA in Dublin, it was only a matter of time, with a County board and a proper plan, their potential translated to success on the field. Often in sports, it can take failure to spur success in sleeping giants. I don't think Germany would have destroyed Brazil in 2014 world cup, had German FA not reacted to Germany's embarrassing defeats to Croatia in 1998, England in 2001 and being outclassed by Brazil in 2002 world cup final.
Based on registered players, there is nothing unusual about Dublin's success, all that is unusual is that it was so long in coming. The senior football team is over-achieving at the moment, thanks to a combination of the right manager and a golden generation (as Kerry and Kilkenny have in previous eras). But they should be winning 3-5 titles per decade unless they have the misfortune to come up against era defining teams like Micko's Kerry, Boylan's Meath or another storm from Ulster. This is their era.

odyssey06 wrote: »

I'm sure a chapter from the authors on GAA would be fascinating. If they can put together a convincing theory explaining the distribution of All Ireland Football titles from 1970-2019 that is valid across decades, I'm all ears.

For example, I am sure they would, looking at the data in 1995 and in ignorance of subsequent funding & results, have projected multiple All Ireland wins for Dublin per decade and would not have predicted zero wins for Dublin between 1996 and 2010.

Dublin were a sleeping giant. They are now playing to the potential that was there. They should be winning 3-5 titles per decade even after this golden generation of manager & players reach the end of the road. The funding may have been a catalyst to that, but the ingredients were there all along since the 1970s and the surge of interest in GAA in Dublin thanks for Heffo's army.

One of the other catalysts to success was the abject failure of the Noughties, which meant Dublin GAA had to embrace change and a new plan.

How can you explain Dublin ladies, Dublin underage and Dublin clubs along with men's football and hurling all improving at the same time? Some coming from nowhere?

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

If you are generally interested in learning more about this, I would recommend the book "Soccernomics."

I'm sure a chapter from the authors on GAA would be fascinating. If they can put together a convincing theory explaining the distribution of All Ireland Football titles from 1970-2019 that is valid across decades, I'm all ears.

For example, I am sure they would, looking at the data in 1995 and in ignorance of subsequent funding & results, have projected multiple All Ireland wins for Dublin per decade and would not have predicted zero wins for Dublin between 1996 and 2010.

Dublin were a sleeping giant. They are now playing to the potential that was there. They should be winning 3-5 titles per decade even after this golden generation of manager & players reach the end of the road. The funding may have been a catalyst to that, but the ingredients were there all along since the 1970s and the surge of interest in GAA in Dublin thanks for Heffo's army.

One of the other catalysts to success was the abject failure of the Noughties, which meant Dublin GAA had to embrace change and a new plan.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

jonnogael wrote: »

Just have to accept Dublin are the best team.:)

Sensible people won't deny that. Maybe Dublin fans should just accept the massive advantages they have. That would really be novel.

jonnogael

Just have to accept Dublin are the best team.:)

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well Iceland beat england in a game of football there a few years back. So basically all of that goes out the window if ever we can get one freak result... Get your house in order!

Iceland became good at soccer because of massive government investment. Money was the main driving force in them becoming a team capable of beating traditionally stronger nations.

HOW ICELAND BECAME THE WORLD'S NEXT SOCCER POWERHOUSE

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

odyssey06 wrote: »

That doesn't even explain the results in the FIFA World Cup as Brazil has 5 titles and Germany has 4, despite Brazil's per capita GDP being 4-5 times greater.

So your theory doesn't stand up to scrutiny in the world's most popular team based field sport.

Does it stand up to scrutiny within other countries in professional sports?
Does southern England do better at soccer than Northern England?
Can you show me a graph of per capita income per city in the US correlated with sporting success?

You're going to have an even harder time proving this theory within the bounds of this island for an amateur sport.

Are Kerry and Kilkenny the richest counties?

If you are genuinely interested in learning more about this, I would recommend the book "Soccernomics."

threeball

odyssey06 wrote: »

threeball wrote: »

So money made the difference in every case except Dublin? Okey doke

Those sports are nothing like soccer. Which is why they got funded by the British. They didn't put their money into trying to win soccer medals at the Olympics, but niche technical sports.

So money does make a difference, but not in team sports, like Gaelic football or soccer, unless it's a professional team sport and you can buy players. Makes total sense now.