The glorious 12th

downcow wrote: »

Slightly different. They were carrying guns to murder if the opportunity arose. The BA were carrying gun to keep the peace, protect the community or defend themselves.

Anyone could use that excuse. And you just did.

steddyeddy wrote: »

But by your logic IRA members who just shot soldiers on the spur of the moment weren't murderers.

Slightly different. They were carrying guns to murder if the opportunity arose. The BA were carrying gun to keep the peace, protect the community or defend themselves.

steddyeddy

downcow wrote: »

I will answer that question but you guys duck everything.

So I don’t regard BS as murder.
Murder is the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. I don’t believe solder f premeditated the killing. This is why he will never be found guilty of murder.

Now I have had the decency to answer your question. Could you tell me do you believe a number of prominent sf members committed murder ie premeditated??

But by your logic IRA members who just shot soldiers on the spur of the moment weren't murderers.

downcow wrote: »

I will answer that question but you guys duck everything.

So I don’t regard BS as murder.
Murder is the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. I don’t believe solder f premeditated the killing. This is why he will never be found guilty of murder.

Now I have had the decency to answer your question. Could you tell me do you believe a number of prominent sf members committed murder ie premeditated??

Yes SF members killed during the conflict (nobody ever denied it) and if they did they will or have faced account for that. It didn't take 40 years of standing up to state lies, cover-up and whitewashing to get them there either.

munsterlegend wrote: »

Simples yes/no question did the British army murder innocent civilians on Bloody Sunday?

I will answer that question but you guys duck everything.

So I don’t regard BS as murder.
Murder is the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. I don’t believe solder f premeditated the killing. This is why he will never be found guilty of murder.

Now I have had the decency to answer your question. Could you tell me do you believe a number of prominent sf members committed murder ie premeditated??

downcow wrote: »

Well Francie etc
Have yous changed your view a little in SF behaviour now and would you condemn it in trhe same way you are condemning the Clyde Valley Band? and should they issue an apology? https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/new...-38400645.html

There isn't shred of evidence that SF organised this whole event so that they could get to dance on the spot where a child died tragically.

And even, as I said several times, if there was, it doesn't excuse your kids for what they are doing.

timthumbni

I’m assuming everyone on here who is a parent would agree. But how do you get to the point where a child is firing petrol bombs at police? I ground my kids for spending too long on the iPad. Where are the parents? drinking in the bogside inn? Are social services emergency teams required in Londonderry?

downcow wrote: »

Most unionists simply want all killers treated the same. ie chase them all down or leave them all alone. Why is that so hard for nationalists to understand. Certainly prosecute the paras but also take the royal pardons of your MLAs and make them face justice.
...and most unionists cannot understand the nationalist love in for ira sectarian killers eg the mastermind of the la mon sectarian massacre topping the poll time and time again and even southerners are now electing him. Explain that one for me?

Simples yes/no question did the British army murder innocent civilians on Bloody Sunday?

steddyeddy

downcow wrote: »

Most unionists simply want all killers treated the same. ie chase them all down or leave them all alone. Why is that so hard for nationalists to understand. Certainly prosecute the paras but also take the royal pardons of your MLAs and make them face justice.
...and most unionists cannot understand the nationalist love in for ira sectarian killers eg the mastermind of the la mon sectarian massacre topping the poll time and time again and even southerners are now electing him. Explain that one for me?

So basically you're viewpoint is it's OK to do something because the other side do it? Is that not a bit pathetic?

firemansam4

downcow wrote: »

Most unionists simply want all killers treated the same. ie chase them all down or leave them all alone. Why is that so hard for nationalists to understand. Certainly prosecute the paras but also take the royal pardons of your MLAs and make them face justice.
...and most unionists cannot understand the nationalist love in for ira sectarian killers eg the mastermind of the la mon sectarian massacre topping the poll time and time again and even southerners are now electing him. Explain that one for me?

This is an excuse trotted out by you and others time and again, but it is far from the reality of why use show your support to them.
I would say it is more about not wanting to admit that the BA that your community support so much carried out atrocities every bit as bad as the illegal paramilitaries did. So you engage in whataboutery to deflect from this.

Ever since bloody Sunday happened the victims of the atrocity were being made out as the aggressors by many in your community and only for several enquiries into what happened that the real truth has come out.

armaghlad wrote: »

I know I will never get an answer, but why is it that the unionist love-in for the killers at Bloody Sunday is somehow excused or justified by what the IRA has done? Why does this mentality exist? It wasn’t 14 SF or IRA members murdered. In fact some of the victims’ relatives actually despise SF. Why does this mentality exist?

Most unionists simply want all killers treated the same. ie chase them all down or leave them all alone. Why is that so hard for nationalists to understand. Certainly prosecute the paras but also take the royal pardons of your MLAs and make them face justice.
...and most unionists cannot understand the nationalist love in for ira sectarian killers eg the mastermind of the la mon sectarian massacre topping the poll time and time again and even southerners are now electing him. Explain that one for me?

janfebmar wrote: »

It what way is it more sectarian than the Catholic Church, the Knights, Opus Dei etc? I am tolerant enough and happy enough to have the Catholic Church, Opus Dei, the GAA etc on the island of Ireland. It is not perfect, it has tens of thousands of members, a sizeable number of whom lost loved ones during what some saw as the Republican ethnic cleansing of certain areas etc.

Anyone who somehow feels it necessary to compare the orange order to the GAA seriously needs to get their head examined. The Order works on a superiority complex. It believes it has a right to match into any area it wants even where not wanted. It gets a national holiday from an era when the Protestant head of Northern Ireland was an OO member. It may be your ‘culture’ but sometimes culture is wrong.

82300 will pack into croke park today and not a hint of unrest only enjoyment for our great national games. No one will lose their life like 3 little boys in drumcree.

armaghlad

downcow wrote: »

Well Francie etc
Have yous changed your view a little in SF behaviour now and would you condemn it in trhe same way you are condemning the Clyde Valley Band? and should they issue an apology? https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/new...-38400645.html

I know I will never get an answer, but why is it that the unionist love-in for the killers at Bloody Sunday is somehow excused or justified by what the IRA has done? Why does this mentality exist? It wasn’t 14 SF or IRA members murdered. In fact some of the victims’ relatives actually despise SF. Why does this mentality exist?

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You'd almost think downcow, jan and Rob set that weak punchline ^^ up among themselves.

I'm interested in Irish myths and legends.I've also kissed the Blarney stone but judging by your unrivalled waffling skills you must have ate it

Well Francie etc
Have yous changed your view a little in SF behaviour now and would you condemn it in trhe same way you are condemning the Clyde Valley Band? and should they issue an apology? https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/new...-38400645.html

janfebmar

munsterlegend wrote: »

The Orange Order is a sectarian organization. You can dress it up anyway you want with bouncy castles chip vans or whatever family fun but nothing will change what in fact is stands for. It has no place in modern Irish society.

It what way is it more sectarian than the Catholic Church, the Knights, Opus Dei etc? I am tolerant enough and happy enough to have the Catholic Church, Opus Dei, the GAA etc on the island of Ireland. It is not perfect, it has tens of thousands of members, a sizeable number of whom lost loved ones during what some saw as the Republican ethnic cleansing of certain areas etc.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Except the commemoration in Strabane for which you had to trawl the history of the conflict to find a victim to exploit in order to engage in a 'themuns' are as bad campaign. A campaign designed to vindicate what the band did in Derry.

Francie. Just to scupper your spin of the strabane baby murder being exploited. Here is how family members feel.
I’ll not hold my breath waiting for your retraction ....again

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/psni-running-scared-of-republicans-claims-aunt-of-infant-killed-in-1972-38400645.html

So lets not try and paint that it’s a few unionist extremists who are annoyed by the inequality of how things are being approached

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/dec/21/arts.northernireland

munsterlegend wrote: »

Yeah they find it somehow amusing that ignorance of the island’s native tongue is a badge of honour. That does indicate a mindset lacking in self confidence and having an identity crisis.

It's more than just the native tongue, downcow was boasting about knowing nothing about the wider environment he lives in.

The first I heard of this 'outsider' mentality was on drama/writing workshops I worked on. It was writers from the unionist tradition that were mainly interested in exploring it. They were very curious as writers, as they had grown up in (according to themselves) an environment that discouraged writing or creative art about 'themselves'. Self examination and self citicism was seen as a betrayal. It was almost traitorous and it was a huge writing bloc they had to overcome and they were all very aware of what happens if you hit raw nerves.

One of the most talked about voices in European theatre is in hiding - and his extended family have been forced to flee their homes - after a campaign of death threats and bomb attacks by loyalist paramilitaries.
Gary Mitchell, whose political thrillers have arguably made him Northern Ireland's greatest playwright, was told that every "Mitchell had to get out or be killed in four hours". His home was attacked by men with baseball bats and petrol bombs.

Brought up on the sprawling Rathcoole estate in north Belfast which is dominated by the UDA, Mitchell is the authentic voice of working class loyalism, whose plays, including As the Beast Sleeps and the Force of Change, have shocked audiences in London and New York with the ugly truth about how paramilitary thugs still control their communities long after "peace".

downcow wrote: »

Absolute nonsense I am not a great believer in worrying about spelling of English language but spell check sorts it. You say I denegrade Irish language simply by having zero interest in. What have some posters been saying on her about Ulster Scots language? ( which I also have no interest in). Posters on here have been referring to aspects of my culture as kkk etc. And you say I’m debagrading yours. Give me an example of denegrading your culture

The Orange Order is a sectarian organization. You can dress it up anyway you want with bouncy castles chip vans or whatever family fun but nothing will change what in fact is stands for. It has no place in modern Irish society.

Very interesting piece on the radio this morning The commentators were talking about the total mess legacy is in. The attempt by each side to get the other to do a walk of shame which won’t and can’t happen. It’s now all points scoring.
I find it difficult but the only way out of this mess is amnesty for all, was the view.
They said it is rediculous to release prisoners and then try to create more

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You have a poster here that engages in the most childish form of it I have ever seen, 'the denial (he thinks) of parity of esteem' by never taking the time to spell Irish words properly. It's the juvenile taunting of Gregory Campbell all over again.
Aided and feted by janfeb, who is willing to debase her own heritage and culture to 'av a pop at imaginary shinnerbots and such.

Absolute nonsense I am not a great believer in worrying about spelling of English language but spell check sorts it. You say I denegrade Irish language simply by having zero interest in. What have some posters been saying on her about Ulster Scots language? ( which I also have no interest in). Posters on here have been referring to aspects of my culture as kkk etc. And you say I’m debagrading yours. Give me an example of denegrading your culture

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You have a poster here that engages in the most childish form of it I have ever seen, 'the denial (he thinks) of parity of esteem' by never taking the time to spell Irish words properly. It's the juvenile taunting of Gregory Campbell all over again.
Aided and feted by janfeb, who is willing to debase her own heritage and culture to 'av a pop at imaginary shinnerbots and such.

Yeah they find it somehow amusing that ignorance of the island’s native tongue is a badge of honour. That does indicate a mindset lacking in self confidence and having an identity crisis.

munsterlegend wrote: »

Leaders of Unionism and parity of esteem? You must be having a laugh. Irish language rights gay rights women’s rights all available throughout the IL except the north. Unionist policies are all about subjugating anything with a tinge if green. Even the denigration here by Unionist posters of the Irish language indicates a sick mindset.

You have a poster here that engages in the most childish form of it I have ever seen, 'the denial (he thinks) of parity of esteem' by never taking the time to spell Irish words properly. It's the juvenile taunting of Gregory Campbell all over again.
Aided and feted by janfeb, who is willing to debase her own heritage and culture to 'av a pop at imaginary shinnerbots and such.

janfebmar wrote: »

I thought the GFA was about parity of esteem, not condemnation of one side, and those who understand them by claiming they have low self esteem.

At least your true colours are coming out now Francie. Still not willing to admit you are a shinnbot, even though you never voted and do not vote for them?

Thankfully most Irish people are not like you.

The GFA has nothing to do with partitionist thinking jan.

What is, being proud of the fact that you know little of the environment you are living in only 'willfully being an outsider'.

The GFA was not in the business of telling lies.

janfebmar wrote: »

I thought the GFA was about parity of esteem, not condemnation of one side, and those who understand them by claiming they have low self esteem.

At least your true colours are coming out now Francie. Still not willing to admit you are a shinnbot, even though you never voted and do not vote for them?

Leaders of Unionism and parity of esteem? You must be having a laugh. Irish language rights gay rights women’s rights all available throughout the Uk except the north. Unionist policies are all about subjugating anything with a tinge if green. Even the denigration here by Unionist posters of the Irish language indicates a sick mindset.

janfebmar

I thought the GFA was about parity of esteem, not condemnation of one side, and those who understand them by claiming they have low self esteem.

At least your true colours are coming out now Francie. Still not willing to admit you are a shinnbot, even though you never voted and do not vote for them?

Thankfully most Irish people are not like you.

When tribes don't assimilate, they continue to be outsiders.

downcow tells us he hasn't even bothered to learn about the environment he is living in, in fact he is PROUD of that fact. He is proud of the fact he knows nothing of the native customs and language.

That is being a 'willful outsider'.
Partitionists of course, aid and abet that, because they either benefit from the outsider being here or have such a low self esteem that they mimic the outsider.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I made the concept simple for the willful outsiders. I want to 'unite' the island.

.

You condoned shooting and bombing the wilful outsiders here (as you call them), even though most have been here longer than white man has been in America, Australia or New Zealand.

How are your plans for resettlement of the outsiders , in the event of a "United Ireland', coming along Francie? You sure the money raised by confiscating the stolen lands will cover the relocation costs of those nasty imperialists and the indoctrination costs of those "partionists" (as you call them) left behind?
Any costings yet on how much it will cost to translate everything in to the first national language, rename roads and train stations in N Ireland etc after our patriots like Bobby Sands etc?

downcow wrote: »

I thought you wanted to ‘reunite’ Ireland Now you are telling us about the King of Ulster Maybe we could reunite Ulster and bring the 3 counties that left back into the fold.

Would that be ok or are you determined to unify and island that has only ever been unified under British force? It’s ironic that you are going to copy what the brits done lol
In your scenario the NE of the island would have new unwanted occupying forces. Surely you couldn’t countenance. Force them to learn Irish, wave a flag that never had anything to do with them and sing anb

I say get the bridge built and get us reunited with our kith and kin Dalriada lol

I made the concept simple for the willful outsiders. I want to 'unite' the island.

Why complicate it with notions the willful outsider will never understand because he/she doesn't want to understand? He/she fears most that his/her tribe will understand.