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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

seligehgit

Discussion of all matters relating to this contentious subject is welcome and the potential implications of same.This thread is solely for this purpose.

There appears to be a perception that the moderators are attempting to shut down discussion of this topic and direct same off to a low traffic stickied thread.Nothing could be further from the truth.Our sole motive was to confine discussion to a single thread and prevent cross thread posting which was adversely affecting the enjoyment of fellow posters.

Can we please keep posts civil and constructive in nature.

The Changes in the GAA-super thread is now for discussion of all other suggested reforms not relating to Dublin GAA.

Extra Mod Warning:
Right, a separate warning to both sides in this debate:
Firstly, any more mentioning of "financial doping" or any intimation that rules have been broken by Dublin or that Dublin have cheated are banned from now on. You can debate the issue of the funding that Dublin have received without resorting to that. There is zero evidence of it and posting about it will be considered trolling from here on in.

Secondly, this topic is, like it or not, a big talking point in gaelic football at the moment. You are more than welcome to argue your point, but posting in this thread to simply mock those on the other side or complaining about the topic is known as thread spoiling and is specifically banned in the charter (see point 8 here). No one is forcing you to click on this thread and no one is forcing you to post in it. If you don't like the topic, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

This thread is here so that all the discussion is in one place and it won't filter into other threads. This makes it easier to ignore for posters who don't really want to be involved in it. As a result, we haven't really been moderating it as severely as other threads. However, a number of posts recently from both sides are sailing too close to the wind and getting borderline personal. So please take a minute before you hit submit to ensure that your post won't fall foul of the rules. We'll have no hesitation in issuing cards and/or threadbans to posters who fail to heed this warning.

Please report any posts that you feel break the rules.

Any questions, please feel free to PM the mods.

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kilns

blanch152 wrote: »

Do you have a link to back this up?

If that is the case, why are Dublin not winning five-in-a-row at minor level?

Thin air stuff

ClanofLams

kilns wrote: »

and ignore all the other factors..

Not at all. I have repeatedly said that funding is a substantial factor never that it is the sole factor.

partyguinness

Sure when Dublin only had one title between 1983 and 2011 everyone has a having a great laugh at their expense and sticking the boot in. And sure Cork lads will tell you they only won in 1995 because Mark O'Connor slipped in the semi-final to let in Jason Sherlock for a decisive goal.

"Soft underbelly"
"Weak"
"Not tough enough"
"The culchies beating up the soft city boys"

Mocking and sneering at Dublin was all the rage and what a disgrace they were with all the pick and resources in the world and they should be dominating.

Well lads, be careful what you wish for.

jmayo

kilns wrote: »

Interesting, however 25 Monaghan players working in Dublin though? That cant be right? Maybe the Mayo people here can confirm if 18 Mayo players work in Dublin?

If you read my post earlier it references player that live, work or study in other county.
You always have some younger players that are in college.

D9Male wrote: »

But that's my point. Intercounty championship attendances are not what the GAA is about. Your post made it seem like the GAA was on its last knees.

The intercounty championship is the pinnacle competition.
It brings in revenue to association that is meant for development.

It is the shop window for attracting advertising revenue and often new members.

Otherwise why allow the inter-county scene dictate the club schedule ?

Kids don't tend to want to emulate Johnny Mac playing senior for the local club for 14 years and once winning the county title, but they do want to emulate Fenton, O'Shea or "the Gooch".

Dots1982

Bridge93 wrote: »

Is the 'split dublin, their population is too big' argument dead now so? The registered playing numbers have been posted a few times. Given the players in Dublin number not that much more than Cork presumably we can all agree splitting based on population is unnecessary now. Debate the funding by all means.

Could someone post the registered men’s football players in Cork and Dublin? Comparing Registered total players in a hurling county like Cork to a football county like Dublin is a bit pointless.

Keano

ClanofLams wrote: »

Not sure if you missed this but thought I would ask again.

Just out of interest, do you think Dublin men’s and women footballers enjoying their best decade in history, Dublin hurlers and hurling clubs massively improved, juvenile success increased, fifteen to twenty years after a massive increase in funding is coincidental and entirely unrelated to that funding?

Does having more money help, it helps in every walk of life but those players still have to train and push themselves just like every other inter county player in the country.

Gachla

partyguinness wrote: »

I think it is as simple as Dublin finally getting its **** together all across the board.

A huge number of professional coaches help but also the highly paid officials who make detailed development plans, oversee them, review them and improve them. Dublin GAA spend millions on wages every year. Their strategic program manager, regional development manager, high performance manager, hurling development manager etc etc don't come cheap. This professional system has costs millions and it is multi layered. When you dig into the detail of the system, you can see exactly why Dublin have won nearly 90 titles since 2005.

Scoundrel

partyguinness wrote: »

Sure when Dublin only had one title between 1983 and 2011 everyone has a having a great laugh at their expense and sticking the boot in. And sure Cork lads will tell you they only won in 1995 because Mark O'Connor slipped in the semi-final to let in Jason Sherlock for a decisive goal.

"Soft underbelly"
"Weak"
"Not tough enough"
"The culchies beating up the soft city boys"

Mocking and sneering at Dublin was all the rage and what a disgrace they were with all the pick and resources in the world and they should be dominating.

Well lads, be careful what you wish for.

Great and what does this nonsense have to do with the GAA funding them to hilt at the expense of other counties and general principles of fairness and equality?

kilns

Gachla wrote: »

Not near as close to the level Dublin are at?

2017 figures

Dublin 33,13 per reg player, Leitrim 37,01 per reg player, Carlow 30,49 per reg player, Sligo 29,85 per reg player, Fermanagh 30,59 per reg player

Not near as close you are right...:rolleyes:

blanch152

Gachla wrote: »

A huge number of professional coaches help but also the highly paid officials who make detailed development plans, oversee them, review them and improve them. Dublin GAA spend millions on wages every year. Their strategic program manager, regional development manager, high performance manager, hurling development manager etc etc don't come cheap. This professional system has costs millions and it is multi layered. When you dig into the detail of the system, you can see exactly why Dublin have won nearly 90 titles since 2005.

Explain to me again how the qualified coach working as a GDO in St. Peter's Special School in Rathgar helps the Dublin senior football team?

Gachla

blanch152 wrote: »

Do you have a link to back this up?

If that is the case, why are Dublin not winning five-in-a-row at minor level?

It was in the Irish Examiner over the weekend. This is a quote from it by Pauric McDonald.

"I went back the following year to an U15 development squad. And if you were to compare the quality of player coming through then to the U13s now, the difference is night and day. Kids were coming into us without the basic skills. They were kick-passing a five-yard pass instead of hand-passing it but their instinct was to kick it along the ground. So they obviously hadn’t been exposed to any level of coaching.

I look now at U14 football in Dublin and the standard of football in the county is phenomenal. The level of individual skill the players have, the level of coaching teams, it’s incomparable to the late ’90s, early ’00s. And a big reason why is obviously the GDO system going into Dublin."

The system is geared towards producing seniors. Underage titles are just a by product and not the number one priority. Look at last years u20 team's age profile to see that.

Scoundrel

kilns wrote: »

2017 figures

Dublin 33,13 per reg player, Leitrim 37,01 per reg player, Carlow 30,49 per reg player, Sligo 29,85 per reg player, Fermanagh 30,59 per reg player

Not near as close you are right...:rolleyes:

The 2017 figures seem to be all the rage with the dubs here noting to say on the 10 years previous no?? I wonder why?:rolleyes:

Gachla

kilns wrote: »

Thin air stuff

Are you calling gthese men who've worked for Dublin GAA for two decades liars?

"I went back the following year to an U15 development squad. And if you were to compare the quality of player coming through then to the U13s now, the difference is night and day. Kids were coming into us without the basic skills. They were kick-passing a five-yard pass instead of hand-passing it but their instinct was to kick it along the ground. So they obviously hadn’t been exposed to any level of coaching.

I look now at U14 football in Dublin and the standard of football in the county is phenomenal. The level of individual skill the players have, the level of coaching teams, it’s incomparable to the late ’90s, early ’00s. And a big reason why is obviously the GDO system going into Dublin."

D9Male

kilns wrote: »

2017 figures

Dublin 33,13 per reg player, Leitrim 37,01 per reg player, Carlow 30,49 per reg player, Sligo 29,85 per reg player, Fermanagh 30,59 per reg player

Not near as close you are right...:rolleyes:

I am sure you have posted this already, but can you send me a link to this please?

kilns

Gachla wrote: »

A huge number of professional coaches help but also the highly paid officials who make detailed development plans, oversee them, review them and improve them. Dublin GAA spend millions on wages every year. Their strategic program manager, regional development manager, high performance manager, hurling development manager etc etc don't come cheap. This professional system has costs millions and it is multi layered. When you dig into the detail of the system, you can see exactly why Dublin have won nearly 90 titles since 2005.

So in other words, Dublin got organised and put structures in place and the right people in the right place and used their money wisely

partyguinness

Gachla wrote: »

A huge number of professional coaches help but also the highly paid officials who make detailed development plans, oversee them, review them and improve them. Dublin GAA spend millions on wages every year. Their strategic program manager, regional development manager, high performance manager, hurling development manager etc etc don't come cheap. This professional system has costs millions and it is multi layered. When you dig into the detail of the system, you can see exactly why Dublin have won nearly 90 titles since 2005.

Well, that is kinda my point.

Gachla

partyguinness wrote: »

Sure when Dublin only had one title between 1983 and 2011 everyone has a having a great laugh at their expense and sticking the boot in. And sure Cork lads will tell you they only won in 1995 because Mark O'Connor slipped in the semi-final to let in Jason Sherlock for a decisive goal.

"Soft underbelly"
"Weak"
"Not tough enough"
"The culchies beating up the soft city boys"

Mocking and sneering at Dublin was all the rage and what a disgrace they were with all the pick and resources in the world and they should be dominating.

Well lads, be careful what you wish for.

Were they so embarrassed by it that they decided to go against the very ethos of the GAA?

Happyilylost

blanch152 wrote: »

Why? Isn't increased awareness of the national games and better long-term health and activity levels sufficient?

Why does it have to lead to increased participation levels within clubs?

What do you think GDOs do during the day when kids are at school?

https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/cfmp6cax48v7w6mxrp9t.pdf

"77% OF ALL SCHOOLS RECEIVED 8 OR MORE COACHING SESSIONS"

The aim is the promotion of the games, that doesn't mean increasing club numbers.

This is an extract from the 2015 Games Development Report:

"Another example – albeit in very different circumstances – is the Special Inclusion Initiative that Dublin County Board run with St. Peter’s School, Rathgar.

St. Peter’s School is a Special School, which caters for up to 60 children and young people with special needs, serving a wide catchment area in South Dublin. The children and young people receive 4 hours per week of Gaelic Football coaching. The over-arching objective of the programme is to provide a safe and positive environment for the children to experience playing and being coached Gaelic games, ensuring that they can learn at their own pace. Within the planning of each coaching session, the programme coach attempts to align the objectives of the session closely with the moral values promoted by the school i.e. hospitality; compassion; respect; justice; excellence. The coach aims to deliver the coaching session by taking every child’s needs into consideration whatever their ability. Mindful of the school’s values, the coach sets objectives for technical and – in particular – social aspects, to be built into the planning and delivery of each session e.g. technical skill: catching; social skill: participation and teamwork."

Can you explain to me how the GDO working in St. Peter's School is somehow helping the Dublin Senior County Team?

If the next Con or Connolly play for Dublin in ten years time who attended St. Peters do you think it would be of benefit to Dublin Senior team? You seem to be only looking at the short game and to be fair to a lot of posters here they amore have an issue with the long game.

Gachla

kilns wrote: »

2017 figures

Dublin 33,13 per reg player, Leitrim 37,01 per reg player, Carlow 30,49 per reg player, Sligo 29,85 per reg player, Fermanagh 30,59 per reg player

Not near as close you are right...:rolleyes:

You are ignoring facts. Dublin were getting 1.5 million plus while others were getting 7,000. Do the maths on that one.

kilns

Scoundrel wrote: »

The 2017 figures seem to be all the rage with the dubs here noting to say on the 10 years previous no?? I wonder why?:rolleyes:

Because everyone complaining about the funding are saying it needs to stop, do something about the funding and for the last 3 years it has and 2017 for example can back those claims up

I dont think any one will deny the extra funding Dublin received previously

Scoundrel

kilns wrote: »

So in other words, Dublin got organised and put structures in place and the right people in the right place and used their money wisely

Or to phrase it correctly they put their massive amounts of money to good use nobody is saying they didn't spend wisely people are saying they have been given far more than other counties and thus have spent far more and that this is inequality and to the detriment of the football championship.

Gachla

blanch152 wrote: »

Explain to me again how the qualified coach working as a GDO in St. Peter's Special School in Rathgar helps the Dublin senior football team?

He doesn't. There's not just one GDO in Dublin though. Did you read what one who was there from the start said in my earlier post? Is he lying?

blanch152

Gachla wrote: »

He doesn't. There's not just one GDO in Dublin though. Did you read what one who was there from the start said in my earlier post? Is he lying?

Does he exist?

Happyilylost

kilns wrote: »

So in other words, Dublin got organised and put structures in place and the right people in the right place and used their money wisely

And for the counties that couldn't afford this level of administration it's just tough luck?

kilns

Gachla wrote: »

You are ignoring facts. Dublin were getting 1.5 million plus while others were getting 7,000. Do the maths on that one.

7000? good luck to you:rolleyes:

D9Male

Is there a reliable source of playing population per county? Ideally broken out by football / hurling?

Thanks,

Barry

Gachla

kilns wrote: »

So in other words, Dublin got organised and put structures in place and the right people in the right place and used their money wisely

No, in other words, Dublin set up a professional system with money that other counties can only dream about, money taken from all the citizens of Ireland, not just GAA people. This money and system has won them an enormous amount of titles and seen their standards rise across the board. This money and system has been given a phrase that you might have heard before; financial doping.

ToBeFrank123

blanch152 wrote: »

Why? Isn't increased awareness of the national games and better long-term health and activity levels sufficient?

Why does it have to lead to increased participation levels within clubs?

Ah come off it. A kid holding a hurley or kicking a ball once or twice at a cul camp is not participation.

Where are all these mythical kids playing the game to keep fit? I've rarely if ever seen a kid play gaelic football in a kick around in a park in Dublin. Playing soccer, sure.

As for cumann na mbunscol, its always going to be the best players playing and 90% of the time its the same kids registered with gaa clubs.

Its a complete lie and myth that kids who aren't affiliated to clubs are learning GAA games and then playing it in the park to keep fit. It ain't happening. And as if they have to learn gaelic sports to keep fit, FFS.

Gachla

partyguinness wrote: »

Well, that is kinda my point.

So you think it's right and fair that one county buys success in an amateur sport?

partyguinness

Scoundrel wrote: »

Great and what does this nonsense have to do with the GAA funding them to hilt at the expense of other counties and general principles of fairness and equality?

Nothing and it's got nothing to do with salmon fishing in Bulgaria but there you go.

It is a comment on how no matter what Dublin are always considered fair game with the bitching and bitterness.

'Fairness and equality' - while you are at it why not mention the under the table cash payments in brown envelopes that players & coaches get all around the country and for decades.