The glorious 12th

janfebmar wrote: »

How could they have ratted if they let her die? Why did they capture all of the paramilitaries: if they were in cahoots the paramilitaries would not have attacked then, aor would have made good their escape. You have failed to think things through yet again Francie.

The soldiers on-site made no move to get aid for nearly half an hour. For some reason.

I'd suggest its just you being obtuse. Capturing the attempted killers would - at a naive surface level - deflect questions about the possibility of state collusion in the murders.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are the very one on here that insists they were not all bad. They weren't all bad, or there would have been a bloodbath,

So you admit now that the soldiers who saved her life and arrested the paramilitaries who shot here were "not all bad". At least it is a change from
munsterlegend who claimed "It just shows how corrupt the north was. The BA watching the house she lived in and she gets shot."

janfebmar wrote: »

So you admit now that the soldiers who saved her life and arrested the paramilitaries who shot here were "not all bad". At least it is a change from
munsterlegend who claimed "It just shows how corrupt the north was. The BA watching the house she lived in and she gets shot."

the soldiers who saved her life and arrested the paramilitaries

....were not one and the same.

Odhinn wrote: »

The soldiers on-site made no move to get aid for nearly half an hour.

They gave her first aid, comandeered a car, went to a house that had a phone, waited for a helicopter to take her directly to hospital. If there was collusion they would not have caught all the attackers, would they?

janfebmar wrote: »

So you admit now that the soldiers who saved her life and arrested the paramilitaries who shot here were "not all bad". At least it is a change from
munsterlegend who claimed "It just shows how corrupt the north was. The BA watching the house she lived in and she gets shot."

Clinging on to any lifeline again.

Munsterlegend is spot on and factually accurate.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Clinging on to any lifeline again.

Munsterlegend is spot on and factually accurate.

How could a patrol watch a house when it was 2 miles away? And conscious it could be attacked itself either? It it was watching the house why did the paramilitaries attack the house while it was being watched?

janfebmar wrote: »

How could a patrol watch a house when it was 2 miles away? And conscious it could be attacked itself either? It it was watching the house why did the paramilitaries attack the house while it was being watched?

Here is her own story. Yet another story mired in collusion and dirty tricks.

There was a noise at the kitchen door. Then a hammering, and three gunmen broke through. One of them shot Michael in the head and he fell on the kitchen floor. In the bedroom, Bernadette tried to think. She didn’t want to pick up the 2-year-old because she was sure the gunmen would blow both of them away. Maybe I should throw the covers over him, she thought. Then she was shot in the back and fell to the floor. The gunman leaned over and fired six more bullets into her body.

“I called out and Michael didn’t answer, so I thought he was dead,” says Bernadette. “I did a mental runabout to see if I was shot where it would kill me. If I found the worst spot, then I could concentrate on it and stay alive for the children. I found I was having trouble breathing. So I concentrated on breathing to stay alive. I kind of shifted myself over to the bed and pulled the baby down, with the cover. I wrapped the cover over the two of us and just stayed on the floor and made sure I could breathe.”

As the gunmen left the house, they were grabbed by British paratroopers. One of the soldiers came into the kitchen. Bernadette heard her husband say they needed an ambulance. That was the first time she knew he was alive. For more than half an hour, she says, the soldiers stayed outside while she and her husband bled. Finally another detail of paratroopers arrived and took the McAliskeys by helicopter to a hospital in Belfast.

“The soldiers were there to make sure that the gunmen got into my house and that they were caught on the way out,” declares Bernadette. “The gunmen were set up and so were we.” As she sees it, the paratroopers, who rarely patrol the remote district (their barracks are 40 miles away), hoped she would be killed, yet would have gotten glory for seizing the culprits.

citytillidie

Shhhs don’t be destroying their version of events with facts from the horses mouth they can’t handle the people involved saying what the truth is

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Here is her own story.
Quote"The soldiers were there to make sure that the gunmen got into my house"
.

Yeah. Paramilitaries could not have got in to her house without the help of the British army. Next thing is she will be complaining the army had not a helicopter hovering over her house 24/7 to take her to hospital in case of emergency.

janfebmar wrote: »

Yeah. Paramilitaries could not have got in to her house without the help of the British army. Next thing is she will be complaining the army had not a helicopter hovering over her house 24/7 to take her to hospital in case of emergency.

This is where we get 50 posts of you claiming you know more than the people there. OK...you have an audience of one. Yourself.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This is where we get 50 posts of you claiming you know more than the people there. OK...you have an audience of one. Yourself.

I think it would be more accurate to say that you are his audience of one. You won't let anything go without getting in a response.

buried

janfebmar wrote: »

Yeah. Paramilitaries could not have got in to her house without the help of the British army. Next thing is she will be complaining the army had not a helicopter hovering over her house 24/7 to take her to hospital in case of emergency.

Are you getting paid to make a total show of the agenda you're spewing, or are you literally doing it for free? Which ever one it is, you might want to reign it in because either one is doing you no good.

buried wrote: »

Are you getting paid to make a total show of the agenda you're spewing,.

I do not have an agenda and nobody pays me. I just disagree with the poster who claimed

munsterlegend wrote: »

It just shows how corrupt the north was.

because if it was that corrupt, the paramilitaries would not have been captured and jailed, surely.

Odhinn wrote: »

RobMc59 wrote: »

It would be interesting to know how many of the regular republican posters here are actually fluent in Irish and use it daily as their first language?

Why?

I would expect those who are so passionate about it would have taken the trouble to be fluent in Irish-is that an unreasonable assumption?

Odhinn wrote: »

janfebmar wrote: »

How could they have ratted if they let her die? Why did they capture all of the paramilitaries: if they were in cahoots the paramilitaries would not have attacked then, aor would have made good their escape. You have failed to think things through yet again Francie.

The soldiers on-site made no move to get aid for nearly half an hour. For some reason.

I'd suggest its just you being obtuse. Capturing the attempted killers would - at a naive surface level - deflect questions about the possibility of state collusion in the murders.

Has the thought occurred to you that if the British soldiers were hoping she was killed they could have made sure that happened and killed or arrested the perpetrators and no one would have known any different-they were doing their job and their presence arguably saved the families lives,its extraordinary people can twist that rather than say fair play to the soldiers.

citytillidie wrote: »

Shhhs don’t be destroying their version of events with facts from the horses mouth they can’t handle the people involved saying what the truth is

Do you think Bernadette Devlin would praise the BA for saving her and her family?-Highly unlikely given her well known opinion and stance.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

RobMc59 wrote: »

It would be interesting to know how many of the regular republican posters here are actually fluent in Irish and use it daily as their first language?

Cén fáth/why?
Would it have any bearing on someone purposely demeaning it?

If people are so passionate about it they should be able to speak it fluently imo-unless its being used as a political stick to hit the Ulster Scots over the head with.
I would never disrespect anyone's desire to speak their own language btw.

Dytalus

RobMc59 wrote: »

If people are so passionate about it they should be able to speak it fluently imo-unless its being used as a political stick to hit the Ulster Scots over the head with.

I used to think this way.

In, like, primary school.

The problem with Irish not being most people's first language goes way back and I'm not about to get into that. But when it comes to why most cannot speak it fluently now it's easier to discuss.

Kids brains are pretty easy to mould, and they pick up languages well - especially when hearing them spoken. The problem Irish faces is a cyclical problem of parents not knowing it, and so they don't speak it to their kids, so their kids can't speak it and grow up to be parents who can't speak it. I actually know quite a few people who would love to be able to speak it, but it's taught pretty poorly in schools and by the time you're an adult and can go pay for classes your brain can't retain language as easily, and you have less free time to immerse yourself in it.

That said, if one relaxes the meaning of 'fluent' I know a surprising number of people who can speak Irish. They may not know every word of the language, but they can maintain decent conversation and get through the day to day - they just couldn't talk about the US/China Trade War with any certainty. Coming out of college I noticed it's not quite as dead as I originally thought it was, but it's definitely struggling. The government, I think, focuses too much on putting it into schools as a "foreign language" at a time when children already have a whole host of other things to worry about. They should either go the whole way and treat it as a 'first language' class, or find some way of getting adults into classes after school and transfer it to a proper 'second language' that can be chosen alongside the others. I'd have been more inclined to pay attention in Irish class if I had the option of not doing French alongside it as an extra workload. Children won't necessarily recognise the importance of keeping that part of our culture alive (I know I very much viewed it as "oh god more homework") whereas adults might.

The only reason I haven't been able to start taking classes is because there aren't that many for complete adult beginners, and the ones that do exist are pricy. The state needs to work on helping out the adults who do want to learn rather than focusing only on the kids.

munsterlegend

RobMc59 wrote: »

If people are so passionate about it they should be able to speak it fluently imo-unless its being used as a political stick to hit the Ulster Scots over the head with.
I would never disrespect anyone's desire to speak their own language btw.

Ulster Scots is a dialect and not a language.

RobMc59 wrote: »

If people are so passionate about it they should be able to speak it fluently imo-unless its being used as a political stick to hit the Ulster Scots over the head with.
I would never disrespect anyone's desire to speak their own language btw.

I could be speaking Ulster Scots within a couple of days and so could you. That isn't to demean it, it is a statement of fact.

A language is more important culturally than just the number of people who speak it.
I can have a conversation in it, but I am fully aware of how it underpins huge amounts of our culture.
The language is only emerging from the damage done to it by the experience of colonialisation. There are still some people profoundly embarrassed to have anything to do with it. The current dismissal of the language by Unionists in the North is a colonial urge to destroy and subjugate the native identity.
A colonial experience that is not uniquely ours frankly. Happened almost everywhere.

munsterlegend

janfebmar wrote: »

How could a patrol watch a house when it was 2 miles away? And conscious it could be attacked itself either? It it was watching the house why did the paramilitaries attack the house while it was being watched?

I am sure you know more than Bernadette. The British army shot innocent people on a street holding handkerchiefs. The RUC engaged in well documented shoot to kill policies.

The north was corrupt from the top down.

RobMc59 wrote: »

Has the thought occurred to you that if the British soldiers were hoping she was killed they could have made sure that happened and killed or arrested the perpetrators and no one would have known any different-they were doing their job and their presence arguably saved the families lives,its extraordinary people can twist that rather than say fair play to the soldiers.

Yeah, then I woke up and apologised. Great similarity between that shooting and the attempt on Gerry Adams.

janfebmar wrote: »

I do not have an agenda and nobody pays me. I just disagree with the poster who claimed because if it was that corrupt, the paramilitaries would not have been captured and jailed, surely.

No, its the best way to avoid accusations of collusion.

munsterlegend

Odhinn wrote: »

No, its the best way to avoid accusations of collusion.

Security forces well aware Devlin a target just like pat finucane and many others on both sides. They let the IRA and loyalists get rid of what they deemed troublesome individuals.

It is incredible to think that Devlin, one day after Bloody Sunday, knew that the Home Secretary, Reginald Maudling was lying through his teeth when he told parliament that the soldiers fired in 'self defence'. The cover-up was on straight away.

So incensed was she by that lie, she walked across the house and slapped his face.

She was a witness to Bloody Sunday but the House conspired to never let her speak about it there. Amazing really.

Whatever else she was, she had huge courage of conviction.

James Brown

RobMc59 wrote: »

I would expect those who are so passionate about it would have taken the trouble to be fluent in Irish-is that an unreasonable assumption?

Whats that got to do with Jan disrespecting it? Seems like you're on an effort to score points for some reason.

James Brown

RobMc59 wrote: »

If people are so passionate about it they should be able to speak it fluently imo-unless its being used as a political stick to hit the Ulster Scots over the head with.
I would never disrespect anyone's desire to speak their own language btw.

Nope. People, like myself believe the Irish language should have a place in Ireland. I won't deny anyone the opportunity or choice to learn and speak it. Why would I?
It's the like of the DUP and posters on boards use it like that. The Irish language is here already. It's people disrespecting it and side lining it that are using it to score points, like you seem to be.
Not content with the Queen's English the like of the DUP use their Ulster Scots as a stick to beat Irish with. Ireland and it's culture is bigger than the DUP or any parlor games they play.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

RobMc59 wrote: »

If people are so passionate about it they should be able to speak it fluently imo-unless its being used as a political stick to hit the Ulster Scots over the head with.
I would never disrespect anyone's desire to speak their own language btw.

Nope. People, like myself believe the Irish language should have a place in Ireland. I won't deny anyone the opportunity or choice to learn and speak it. Why would I?
It's the like of the DUP and posters on boards use it like that. The Irish language is here already. It's people disrespecting it and side lining it that are using it to score points, like you seem to be.

That's not the case Matt,I enquired about it here ,there are lessons available in the Irish centre in Liverpool but decided against it.
Although many probably won't admit it ,with English being pretty much used universally by all is it worth the effort as an adult?