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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

seligehgit

Discussion of all matters relating to this contentious subject is welcome and the potential implications of same.This thread is solely for this purpose.

There appears to be a perception that the moderators are attempting to shut down discussion of this topic and direct same off to a low traffic stickied thread.Nothing could be further from the truth.Our sole motive was to confine discussion to a single thread and prevent cross thread posting which was adversely affecting the enjoyment of fellow posters.

Can we please keep posts civil and constructive in nature.

The Changes in the GAA-super thread is now for discussion of all other suggested reforms not relating to Dublin GAA.

Extra Mod Warning:
Right, a separate warning to both sides in this debate:
Firstly, any more mentioning of "financial doping" or any intimation that rules have been broken by Dublin or that Dublin have cheated are banned from now on. You can debate the issue of the funding that Dublin have received without resorting to that. There is zero evidence of it and posting about it will be considered trolling from here on in.

Secondly, this topic is, like it or not, a big talking point in gaelic football at the moment. You are more than welcome to argue your point, but posting in this thread to simply mock those on the other side or complaining about the topic is known as thread spoiling and is specifically banned in the charter (see point 8 here). No one is forcing you to click on this thread and no one is forcing you to post in it. If you don't like the topic, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

This thread is here so that all the discussion is in one place and it won't filter into other threads. This makes it easier to ignore for posters who don't really want to be involved in it. As a result, we haven't really been moderating it as severely as other threads. However, a number of posts recently from both sides are sailing too close to the wind and getting borderline personal. So please take a minute before you hit submit to ensure that your post won't fall foul of the rules. We'll have no hesitation in issuing cards and/or threadbans to posters who fail to heed this warning.

Please report any posts that you feel break the rules.

Any questions, please feel free to PM the mods.

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Inspector Coptoor

Donnielighto wrote: »

Is that central funding, self generated or both?

That’s just central funding.

They get €1M a year from AIG as well in sponsorship and that’s just scratching the surface

LeinsterDub

Donnielighto wrote: »

Did you read the thread, info is a few years out of date acknowledged and I've clarified why is see they aren't dominant now, they are effectively further along than I thought they were.

Fancy having another go at why Dublin aren't dominating Hurling so? Given they've all the same advantages as the footballers?

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Football is Dublin's primary focus. They always had some success there. Hurling started at a much lower point but Dublin have improved.

ClanofLams

Donnielighto wrote: »

Is that central funding, self generated or both?

Sorry should have specified. It’s funding for coaching and development, can be seen below.

https://twitter.com/seanmcgoldrick1/status/1093268753725431808?s=21

Donnielighto

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Fancy having another go at why Dublin aren't dominating Hurling so? Given they've all the same advantages as the footballers?

I've already answered that in thread.

C__MC

In 2006 Kerry played Dublin in a league hurling final
13 years on Dublin are a formidable hurling county who knocked galway out

Hurling is healthy in Dublin, finance played a big part

Camogie and lgfa is also on an upward curve

ToBeFrank123

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yep 2011 won it against the run of play v Kerry - Kerry pulled up were caught cold momentum shifted

2013 - Although Dublin controlled the game O'Connor's dilly dallying aided Dublin's win

2016 - was delighted with the draw Mayo should defo have won the first game stupid og's keeper mistakes

- in the second game Costello won it with his three points from the bench - thought Dublin deserved it

2017 - if O'connor had got his free instead of hitting the post could easily have been a draw

I honestly cannot see Dublin dominating in five years time.
The quality coming through is just not the same as Fenton, Mannion, McCarthy, Scully, Kilkenny will be in thier 30's - Cluxton will be gone, Rock will likely be gone 34

Nothing lasts forever and all great teams fade.

They don't really need anything to come through for another 3 or 4 years at least and they'll have won another 5 in a row by then.

Father Hernandez

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Our grandchildren will have no interest in gaelic football. In fact many Dublin kids today have no interest in gaelic football! Because even they see it as boring and one sided with little competitive interest.

The falling attendences and tv audiences support this. The GAA won't be able to give away tickets to Leinster finals in future!

Dublin kids today do in fact have interest.

According to the Dublin county board, Dublin has grown participation rates in football in the last 10 years by 58%, in hurling it is 98%.

blanch152

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I see you've included the absolute sham of a game in Omagh in which Bernard Brogan, O'Gara and Connolly featured to make your case. O'Gara and Brogan are not even squad players any more, at least be honest about that. The game in Omagh was a nothing fixture.

I also said clearly the starting forwards in big games these days has no relation to 2011. O'Gara, Brogan, Connolly etc are has beens or no longer starters.

Lets see what the starting line up is for the final and compare it to 2011.

The bare facts of the issue are this:

10 of the Kerry 26 in 2015 made the squad last Sunday.
18 of the Dublin 26 in 2015 made the squad last Saturday.

You can cherrypick all you like, but if you go back to 2011, I think you can compare with the Mayo team from then.

https://munster.gaa.ie/event/all-ireland-gaa-football-championship-semi-final/

Hennelly, Vaughan, Aidan O'Shea and Cillian O'Connor are the only starters that day and last Saturday. Again, nothing different or unusual.

What is unusual is how close to the 2015 team the current Dublin team is now. It is almost if Gavin hit on a winning combination and stuck to it and kept winning.

C__MC

To be fair Peter Keane has rebuilt Kerry from scratch
Got rid of players still in their time and is blooding youth
Unfair to compare to Dublin say from 2015

ToBeFrank123

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Dublin kids today do in fact have interest.

According to the Dublin county board, Dublin has grown participation rates in football in the last 10 years by 58%, in hurling it is 98%.

But registered players are still relatively low compared to Cork for example. 39,000 registered in Dublin to 34,000 in Cork according to most recent stats.

There's something like 230,000 kids in Dublin so a vast number don't participate.

Donnielighto

blanch152 wrote: »

The bare facts of the issue are this:

10 of the Kerry 26 in 2015 made the squad last Sunday.
18 of the Dublin 26 in 2015 made the squad last Saturday.

You can cherrypick all you like, but if you go back to 2011, I think you can compare with the Mayo team from then.

https://munster.gaa.ie/event/all-ireland-gaa-football-championship-semi-final/

Hennelly, Vaughan, Aidan O'Shea and Cillian O'Connor are the only starters that day and last Saturday. Again, nothing different or unusual.

What is unusual is how close to the 2015 team the current Dublin team is now. It is almost if Gavin hit on a winning combination and stuck to it and kept winning.

7 of the same starters from 2915 final as the Mayo game. Including subs it brings the numbers up. Good few different forwards and I think some of the guys there now we're new enough for 2015. Not huge turnover but the team age is not getting older I'd say, maintaining the correct mix and getting rid of the older blood for newer as needed. It's not wholesale change but then again it isn't the Kerry team that had 1 change bringing in spillane between first and last.

ToBeFrank123

blanch152 wrote: »

The bare facts of the issue are this:

10 of the Kerry 26 in 2015 made the squad last Sunday.
18 of the Dublin 26 in 2015 made the squad last Saturday.

You can cherrypick all you like, but if you go back to 2011, I think you can compare with the Mayo team from then.

https://munster.gaa.ie/event/all-ireland-gaa-football-championship-semi-final/

Hennelly, Vaughan, Aidan O'Shea and Cillian O'Connor are the only starters that day and last Saturday. Again, nothing different or unusual.

What is unusual is how close to the 2015 team the current Dublin team is now. It is almost if Gavin hit on a winning combination and stuck to it and kept winning.

But Dublin are winning AIs that's the difference. A poster said Dublins dominance is cyclical, meaning them winning AIs will end soon.

It won't.

Quoting other counties is irrelevant.

There is zero evidence Dublins cycle has peaked and is on the wane. They are dominating now more than ever.

So its not cyclical.

ArielAtom

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

But registered players are still relatively low compared to Cork for example. 39,000 registered in Dublin to 34,000 in Cork according to most recent stats.

There's something like 230,000 kids in Dublin so a vast number don't participate.

So does this mean we can discount the population argument then?

blanch152

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

That’s just central funding.

They get €1M a year from AIG as well in sponsorship and that’s just scratching the surface

To correct again, it is €800,000.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/aig-renews-sponsorship-with-dublin-gaa-in-4m-deal-1.3487922

"The sponsorship will also provide for games development officers in the county who serve local communities, clubs and schools, and funding will be available for club initiatives, including safety equipment for juveniles and education programmes."

"“This long-term commitment will allow us plan for the development of our games in the county on a sound financial footing,” he said. “With the backing of AIG, we can look forward to building on the work already being done and continue to invest in allowing as many girls and boys as possible to take part with the guidance of the best coaching.”"

All about the kids:)

Blueshoe

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yep 2011 won it against the run of play v Kerry - Kerry pulled up were caught cold momentum shifted

2013 - Although Dublin controlled the game O'Connor's dilly dallying aided Dublin's win

2016 - was delighted with the draw Mayo should defo have won the first game stupid og's keeper mistakes

- in the second game Costello won it with his three points from the bench - thought Dublin deserved it

2017 - if O'connor had got his free instead of hitting the post could easily have been a draw

I honestly cannot see Dublin dominating in five years time.
The quality coming through is just not the same as Fenton, Mannion, McCarthy, Scully, Kilkenny will be in thier 30's - Cluxton will be gone, Rock will likely be gone 34

Nothing lasts forever and all great teams fade.

For sure. It's a golden generation for Dublin football. As good and all as they are I hope Kerry somehow can turn them over in a couple of weeks. Cant see it happening but all Ireland finals or any type of finals can and do have upsets and it's a one off winner take all event. As mentioned previously many of the finals have only been won by a point. No hammerings.
Bookies have Kerry +5 @ 6/5. Il think Dublin by 3

odyssey06

ClanofLams wrote: »

Sorry should have specified. It’s funding for coaching and development

The funding should be spread around.

But there are limits to how much it affects results. Or Meath, Derry and Kildare would be twice the teams that Mayo and Tyrone are. And Dublin would have won a hurling all ireland.

LeinsterDub

ClanofLams wrote: »

Is there any justification for Dublin to receive almost thirteen times what Cork received from ‘07 to ‘18? When the population difference is two and a half times?

Work goes in every county to looking after all kids. You seem to be implying that is unique to Dublin or something.

The gaa is a democracy. This funding was democratically allocated. That's the justification

Blueshoe

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

But Dublin are winning AIs that's the difference. A poster said Dublins dominance is cyclical, meaning them winning AIs will end soon.

It won't.

Quoting other counties is irrelevant.

There is zero evidence Dublins cycle has peaked and is on the wane. They are dominating now more than ever.

So its not cyclical.

Of course it's cyclical. If not then it would be a first in sports of any description.

Kerry have won 5 minors in a row. Dublin won't drop off but they won't win it every year. Not a hope. Semi final or final for years to come but they won't win them all

beggars_bush

I think that Dublin GAA and most of the Dublin clubs are well capable of generating finance to fund their full time coaches, without help from the rest of us in the GAA.

It'd be nice to see the GAA as concerned about the health of the games in urban areas such as Limerick, Cork, Galway, Drogheda, Dundalk to name but a few
And also finance a model of supporting non urban clubs.
I don't see why a child in Dublin should get a better level of coaching or more frequent visit than a child elsewhere in the country
We're very quickly creating a have and have nots in the GAA

odyssey06

blanch152 wrote: »

To correct again, it is €800,000.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/aig-renews-sponsorship-with-dublin-gaa-in-4m-deal-1.3487922

"The sponsorship will also provide for games development officers in the county who serve local communities, clubs and schools, and funding will be available for club initiatives, including safety equipment for juveniles and education programmes."
"“This long-term commitment will allow us plan for the development of our games in the county on a sound financial footing,” he said. “With the backing of AIG, we can look forward to building on the work already being done and continue to invest in allowing as many girls and boys as possible to take part with the guidance of the best coaching.”"
All about the kids:)

Cork have a seven figure deal with Chill, spread over 3 years. I doubt Clare get that.
Should sponsorship be allowed? Capped?
A certain amount go into central funds?

beggars_bush

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The gaa is a democracy. This funding was democratically allocated. That's the justification

Who elected the Director General and full time staff who dictate policy?

The GAA is actually run like a polit bureau.

Why is Dublin treated like a province for funding when they only have one team?

ClanofLams

odyssey06 wrote: »

The funding should be spread around.

But there are limits to how much it affects results. Or Meath, Derry and Kildare would be twice the teams that Mayo and Tyrone are. And Dublin would have won a hurling all ireland.

Dublin hurling has been transformed. They just started at a much lower base, gone from getting beat by Offaly by fifteen points in ‘04 and knocked out by Westmeath in ‘05 to being a serious outfit that narrowly lost to All Ireland finalists Kilkenny this year, defeated Galway, drew with Wexford. Those sort of results were as unlikely fifteen years ago as Dublin winning five in a row.

odyssey06

ClanofLams wrote: »

Dublin hurling has been transformed. They just started at a much lower base, gone from getting beat by Offaly by fifteen points in ‘04 and knocked out by Westmeath in ‘05 to being a serious outfit that narrowly lost to All Ireland finalists Kilkenny this year, defeated Galway, drew with Wexford. Those sort of results were as unlikely fifteen years ago as Dublin winning five in a row.

Not unlikely in the late 80s or early 90s when they reached two leinster finals, losing to Kilkenny by 2 points in one. That was a serious outfit too.
There were no second chances back then alas.

Mokuba

blanch152 wrote: »

To correct again, it is €800,000.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/aig-renews-sponsorship-with-dublin-gaa-in-4m-deal-1.3487922

"The sponsorship will also provide for games development officers in the county who serve local communities, clubs and schools, and funding will be available for club initiatives, including safety equipment for juveniles and education programmes."

"“This long-term commitment will allow us plan for the development of our games in the county on a sound financial footing,” he said. “With the backing of AIG, we can look forward to building on the work already being done and continue to invest in allowing as many girls and boys as possible to take part with the guidance of the best coaching.”"

All about the kids:)

I notice you ignored the question about Dublin receiving 13 times the funding that Cork did, despite having 2.5 times the population. And in 2015 they had just over 5000 more registered players. But 13 times the funding. Seems a little unfair. :rolleyes:

All Dublin fans can do is bury their heads in the sand and stick their fingers in their ears. How anybody could gain satisfaction from winning a competition like this is beyond me.

It is rotten to the core. Dublin are financially doped up to their eyeballs. No other county has a hope. It'll take decades for the rest to catch up to Dublin, given their other advantages such as sponsorship, population and getting to play almost every game at home. By that point I doubt anyone will care.

Bonniedog

Width of a butt of a goal post between Ryan and a goal that would have beaten the Cats. Would quite possibly have gone on to win the All Ireland...…

(Goes to find a quiet corner and weep...)

Blueshoe

Bonniedog wrote: »

Width of a butt of a goal post between Ryan and a goal that would have beaten the Cats. Would quite possibly have gone on to win the All Ireland...…

(Goes to find a quiet corner and weep...)

Ah stop.

odyssey06

Mokuba wrote: »

It is rotten to the core. Dublin are financially doped up to their eyeballs. No other county has a hope. It'll take decades for the rest to catch up to Dublin, given their other advantages such as sponsorship, population and getting to play almost every game at home. By that point I doubt anyone will care.

If it is rotten please explain the corruption that has led it to occur and persist.
Or it isnt rotten.

The GAA took a decision to promote the sports - both codes - in the most competitive environment for sports in the country. Or risk losing out on generations of kids to soccer or rugby.

There are lots of discrepancies in funding between counties and in spinsorship.
Looking at the twitter table it has not affected results on the field significantly. Or we would not expect to see Tyrone in a semi final given they got same funding as Leitrim and half as much as Meath.

There was nothing rotten about it.
If you have information to the contrary please share it.

Black charlie

Dublin footballl is very dominant due to money and population.
They are a complete professional setup
Because it is a complete professional set up underage success means very little
What matters is that young talent is identified and professionally managed into the senior set up.

There is no blaming Dublin football for what they have become - it is the natural progression of the game itself becoming more professional

I do not see any change in Dublin dominance. I would break Dublin into 2 for now and divide clubs fairly
I think this could suit everyone including the dubs as there would probably be an all dub final almost immediately.

ClanofLams

odyssey06 wrote: »

Not unlikely in the late 80s or early 90s when they reached two leinster finals, losing to Kilkenny by 2 points in one. That was a serious outfit too.
There were no second chances back then alas.

They hadn’t won a Leinster title in fifty years and 1990 aside hadn’t even come close.

They had one Leinster club hurling title go to a Dublin club since 1970, no All Irelands.

This decade they have won a Leinster intercounty title, get Cunningham aside are very competitive against the best teams in the country and had a club win back to back All Irelands, albeit one with a few immigrants.

Saying Dublin hurling has not been transformed since funding massively jumped is really head in the sand stuff.