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Child Item

Galway Cycle Bus, Knocknacarra

bobbyss

Galway Bay had a piece about this group recently. School kids cycling to school along with adults. What a marvellous idea. And kudos to the organisers There's a video as well. One advantage from a safety point of view is that there's strength in numbers. Drivers can see a mass of colour moving and can adjust accordingly.

But one query Aren't cyclists supposed to use hand signals to indicate their intentions especially going through roundabouts? From the snippets I saw I wasn't sure the kids were doing this. I hope I am wrong.

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irisheddie85

bobbyss wrote: »

Galway Bay had a piece about this group recently. School kids cycling to school along with adults. What a marvellous idea. And kudos to the organisers There's a video as well. One advantage from a safety point of view is that there's strength in numbers. Drivers can see a mass of colour moving and can adjust accordingly.

But one query Aren't cyclists supposed to use hand signals to indicate their intentions especially going through roundabouts? From the snippets I saw I wasn't sure the kids were doing this. I hope I am wrong.

And cars are supposed to use indicators. They are a bunch of primary school kids. Isn't it enough just to get them all on their bikes and out of cars.

xckjoo

bobbyss wrote: »

Galway Bay had a piece about this group recently. School kids cycling to school along with adults. What a marvellous idea. And kudos to the organisers There's a video as well. One advantage from a safety point of view is that there's strength in numbers. Drivers can see a mass of colour moving and can adjust accordingly.

But one query Aren't cyclists supposed to use hand signals to indicate their intentions especially going through roundabouts? From the snippets I saw I wasn't sure the kids were doing this. I hope I am wrong.

It's a fantastic project. Has been running for a while now.

They have adult marshals that cycle with them and provide coverage for the kids. I'm not sure how exactly it works but I'd say this would cover the need for hand signals from a safety point of view. The roads around the city are fairly poor and taking a hand of the handle bars at the wrong time could send you flying if you're not very comfortable with balance on a bike. Probably better to let them learn to cycle before introducing added difficulties.

I know they're looking for volunteers for the marshalling for the coming year if you're (or anyone else) in the area. You could talk to them about introducing the idea of hand signals and stuff to the older/more experienced kids.

Mr_A

Fair play to those involved, the cycle bus is genuinely inspirational.

It's a shame that it's needed, but Galway is so cycle hostile there is little alternative. Hopefully planning standards will improve, people will use bikes if they can do so and feel safe doing it.

Del2005

irisheddie85 wrote: »

And cars are supposed to use indicators. They are a bunch of primary school kids. Isn't it enough just to get them all on their bikes and out of cars.

If you don't teach them the correct way to use the roads from the start then they will never know how to use the road correctly, all car drivers start as pedestrians and cyclists.

xckjoo

Del2005 wrote: »

If you don't teach them the correct way to use the roads from the start then they will never know how to use the road correctly, all car drivers start as pedestrians and cyclists.

There's a progression in learning. Being able to keep your balance on a bike if you hit a bit of crappy road while you only have one hand on the bike is not simple. And some people never learn to cycle but still manage to learn how to use indicators in a car.

bobbyss

Del2005 wrote:

If you don't teach them the correct way to use the roads from the start then they will never know how to use the road correctly, all car drivers start as pedestrians and cyclists.

Yeah this is the way I learn to drive from the motoring school so that no bad habits would start. It's a hugely responsible thing to marshal young kids on the roads and again fair play to those involved.

I would be very hesitant of marshalling kids on busy school mornings who are not confident enough of using hand signals at the risk of losing balance.

But again I'll take my hat off to those that do.

Del2005

xckjoo wrote: »

There's a progression in learning. Being able to keep your balance on a bike if you hit a bit of crappy road while you only have one hand on the bike is not simple. And some people never learn to cycle but still manage to learn how to use indicators in a car.

If you can't keep balance on a road you shouldn't be on the road.

There is a lot to be said for the cycle bus but untrained people shouldn't be using the open roads regardless of the reason. Yes they have marshals but they have no legal authority to control traffic so who will be responsible if there's a crash?

xckjoo

Del2005 wrote: »

If you can't keep balance on a road you shouldn't be on the road.

There is a lot to be said for the cycle bus but untrained people shouldn't be using the open roads regardless of the reason. Yes they have marshals but they have no legal authority to control traffic so who will be responsible if there's a crash?

It's all road bud. Where do you propose they learn? You can drive a car on the road after only taking a theory test. Much more dangerous no?

P.S Is it actually a legal requirement for cyclists to use hand signals?

Tipsygypsy

I've been out with cycle bus a few times and can assure you that they cycle two abreast with the children stay on the inside close to path with adults on the outside between them and the traffic and they are encouraged and protected very well. Aside from this the marshals do stop at all junctions and signal to drivers that the bus in coming and most traffic are very aware and conscientious of the cycle bus. On busier days (such as the monthly family day) there is often a member of An Garda with them.

Mrs OBumble

xckjoo wrote: »

It's all road bud. Where do you propose they learn? You can drive a car on the road after only taking a theory test. Much more dangerous no?

P.S Is it actually a legal requirement for cyclists to use hand signals?

Learn in the park. A person without basic vehicle mastery should not be on the road.

Learner car drivers need to be accompanied by a licensed adult driver who is in charge of the vehicle.

xckjoo

Jesus the begrudgers are out in force already. I'm not going to reply to any of them directly again because it's a waste of time. Anyone that sees a story about a group of volunteers going above and beyond to provide kids with a means to safely cycle to school and starts moaning about inconsequential things should have a long hard think about who they are as a person IMO.

xckjoo

Tipsygypsy wrote: »

I've been out with cycle bus a few times and can assure you that they cycle two abreast with the children stay on the inside close to path with adults on the outside between them and the traffic and they are encouraged and protected very well. Aside from this the marshals do stop at all junctions and signal to drivers that the bus in coming and most traffic are very aware and conscientious of the cycle bus. On busier days (such as the monthly family day) there is often a member of An Garda with them.

Fair play. I'd love to get involved but I don't live near them. Great to see the Guards involved as well. Presumably they're just there to arrest the kids that don't hand signal correctly though :pac:

bobbyss

Can anyone clarify what the adult is doing at about 1:35 in the video? It's quite short but seems an odd way to enter a roundabout on a bicycle.

biko

From their Twitter

https://twitter.com/cycle_bus/status/1126853581854904321

wily minx

I can't think of any parents I know who would be stupid enough to let their children join the cycle bus without having a good grasp of how to cycle on the road. And thank god the 'but someone might get sued' brigade haven't had an impact on this initiative. Is there anything like the cycling proficiency test (from the uk, Google tells me it's now called 'bikeability') here? I haven't heard of anything through school. In the UK they were part organised through the school and everyone was encourage to take the tests (bronze, silver and gold) to learn the rules of the road.

xckjoo

wily minx wrote: »

I can't think of any parents I know who would be stupid enough to let their children join the cycle bus without having a good grasp of how to cycle on the road. And thank god the 'but someone might get sued' brigade haven't had an impact on this initiative. Is there anything like the cycling proficiency test (from the uk, Google tells me it's now called 'bikeability') here? I haven't heard of anything through school. In the UK they were part organised through the school and everyone was encourage to take the tests (bronze, silver and gold) to learn the rules of the road.

I've heard cycling skills are taught in some schools around 5th or 6th class but don't know the details. I've a feeling it's just an afternoon of going around the yard in a circle but open to correction.

what_traffic

http://www.cycleright.ie/
is now the Irish National Standard. It is modeled on the UK Bikeability
Generally thought from 12+
Under that age, all other road users have a duty of care towards Children.

Mrs OBumble

what_traffic wrote: »

Generally thought from 12+
Under that age, all other road users have a duty of care towards Children.

And over that age, they don't? Really?

Seriously folks. All vehicle users ( any no of wheels) have a duty of care towards all other people especially vulnerable ones.

Parents have a duty of care to get their kids to school, and to ensure their kids aren't placed in situations which are beyond their physical of emotional capacity. Ideally this includes not sending kids to play in the traffic.

at1withmyself

Ah right so the tone of this thread is basically less bikes and more cars on the road. Gotcha!

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And over that age, they don't? Really?

Seriously folks. All vehicle users ( any no of wheels) have a duty of care towards all other people especially vulnerable ones.

Parents have a duty of care to get their kids to school, and to ensure their kids aren't placed in situations which are beyond their physical of emotional capacity. Ideally this includes not sending kids to play in the traffic.

ben.schlomo

at1withmyself wrote: »

Ah right so the tone of this thread is basically less bikes and more cars on the road. Gotcha!

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And over that age, they don't? Really?

Seriously folks. All vehicle users ( any no of wheels) have a duty of care towards all other people especially vulnerable ones.

Parents have a duty of care to get their kids to school, and to ensure their kids aren't placed in situations which are beyond their physical of emotional capacity. Ideally this includes not sending kids to play in the traffic.

She has a long standing issue with/fear of bicycles. Those attitudes are best ignored really.

what_traffic

ben.schlomo wrote: »

She has a long standing issue with/fear of bicycles. Those attitudes are best ignored really.

I would concur with this analysis.

jace_da_face

I am all for cycling and building cities to accommodate it, but I am sorry to have to say it, this scheme is and quite likely dangerous and an nuisance at best . The adults occupy the roadway and hold up the traffic. I understand they are trying to shield the kids from danger but clearly there is a conflict here.

If the cycle lanes are considered too dangerous for small kids that adults need to chaperone from the road external to the cycle lanes, then its unworkable. It leads to frustrated drivers, who get annoyed at being held up, and the sense of entitlement of cyclist taking over the road when there is a lane available to them. They then try to overtake which leads to gridlock and increases the chance of accidents.

xckjoo

jace_da_face wrote: »

I am all for cycling and building cities to accommodate it, but I am sorry to have to say it, this scheme is and quite likely dangerous and an nuisance at best . The adults occupy the roadway and hold up the traffic. I understand they are trying to shield the kids from danger but clearly there is a conflict here.

If the cycle lanes are considered too dangerous for small kids that adults need to chaperone from the road external to the cycle lanes, then its unworkable. It leads to frustrated drivers, who get annoyed at being held up, and the sense of entitlement of cyclist taking over the road when there is a lane available to them. They then try to overtake which leads to gridlock and increases the chance of accidents.

There'd be more of a hold up on the roads if all those kids were being driven to school instead of cycling.

wily minx

It's a fairly small wait for the car drivers to allow the cycle bus to use the roundabouts. And at that time of day traffic is fairly slow anyway along WDR! And surely the whole point is that by encouraging more to use the cycle bus you're taking more yummy mummies cars off the road?? More of this sort of thing!

what_traffic

xckjoo wrote: »

There'd be more of a hold up on the roads if all those kids were being driven to school instead of cycling.

Always amazes me how people struggle to understand this basic concept.(same applies for public transport)

jace_da_face

what_traffic wrote: »

Always amazes me how people struggle to understand this basic concept.(same applies for public transport)

I doubt the same applies in the case of taking up the road to bicycles so that they may shepherd little cyclists at a snail’s pace. I want schemes like these to work but they need to work well. You saw the video on that Twitter feed some posts back. Check out the cyclist in the road, who’s not in the cycle lane as should be. And check out the motorists eager to overtake.

What gives that cyclist the right to take up the road and slow traffic when a lane is available? If that cycle train can’t keep in the cycle lane and that some of the cyclists need to occupy the road, then either those little cyclists are too young to use cycle lanes or our cycle lanes are just plane dangerous, or both.

Unless we start building cycle lanes that are separated from the roads, those kids should be up on the footpaths. The adults could then safely ride along in the cycle lanes. What they are currently doing is dangerous, will cause resentment and just looks like middle class virtue signaling.

xckjoo

jace_da_face wrote: »

I doubt the same applies in the case of taking up the road to bicycles so that they may shepherd little cyclists at a snail’s pace. I want schemes like these to work but they need to work well. You saw the video on that Twitter feed some posts back. Check out the cyclist in the road, who’s not in the cycle lane as should be. And check out the motorists eager to overtake.

What gives that cyclist the right to take up the road and slow traffic when a lane is available? If that cycle train can’t keep in the cycle lane and that some of the cyclists need to occupy the road, then either those little cyclists are too young to use cycle lanes or our cycle lanes are just plane dangerous, or both.

Unless we start building cycle lanes that are separated from the roads, those kids should be up on the footpaths. The adults could then safely ride along in the cycle lanes. What they are currently doing is dangerous, will cause resentment and just looks like middle class virtue signaling.

I think it's more "middle class virtue signalling" to be moaning that a group of kids cycling to school might cause you to take 30s longer to get your multi-thousand euro car to the next traffic jam. The roads are for everyone.
And learn your rules of the road if you're going to be driving a car. There's no requirement for a cyclist to use cycle lanes. So to answer your question about what "What gives that cyclist the right to take up the road and slow traffic when a lane is available?", the law does.

Salary Negotiator

jace_da_face wrote: »

I doubt the same applies in the case of taking up the road to bicycles so that they may shepherd little cyclists at a snail’s pace. I want schemes like these to work but they need to work well. You saw the video on that Twitter feed some posts back. Check out the cyclist in the road, who’s not in the cycle lane as should be. And check out the motorists eager to overtake.

What gives that cyclist the right to take up the road and slow traffic when a lane is available? If that cycle train can’t keep in the cycle lane and that some of the cyclists need to occupy the road, then either those little cyclists are too young to use cycle lanes or our cycle lanes are just plane dangerous, or both.

Unless we start building cycle lanes that are separated from the roads, those kids should be up on the footpaths. The adults could then safely ride along in the cycle lanes. What they are currently doing is dangerous, will cause resentment and just looks like middle class virtue signaling.

There's no requirement to use a cycle lane, once you understand that point you will see that the rest of your post is nonsense.

what_traffic

jace_da_face wrote: »

I want schemes like these to work but they need to work well.

No you don't.

jace_da_face

In response to the previous three posts, I think you’re missing the tone of my post. Perhaps I should have preceded my question with “Allow me to play devil’s advocate here ....”. And why you want to paint me as the guy in the gas guzzling SUV who has something against cyclists, I don’t know? Turn this into a typical polarized debate, as we see all over the internet and social media if you want, rather than a constructive discussion. I want to see more cycling and better lanes. If you stop attacking for a minute you would see that.

So on the issue of the law and regulation, is that true about no requirement to use a cycle lane where one is available? All I can find on this is:

Article 14 of the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations 1997

14. (3) All pedal cycles must be driven on a cycle track where one is provided.

Anyway, I didn’t want to go too far down the law route. I’m sure I could apply the letter of the law, and cycle in the road in such away as to become a nuisance, although I would probably get done for obstruction. Incidentally, it is no 30 second delay getting stuck behind that cycle bus going from the Blake roundabout down to Aldi. Not by a long shot, according to my wife anyway. But hey, she’s just a gas guzzler too, so her and other drivers frustrations don’t matter.

But forgive me for trying to suggest any reasons as to why we shouldn’t try do better with cycle behaviour and infrastructure, and more importantly, safety.