realdanbreen wrote: » It's good to hear It's good to hear that you get such benefit from your faith. The God that you pray to, is that the same God that the 1.3 billion Muslims pray to? I'm not trying to be smart I just need someone to clarify these things.
John 5:36-47 wrote: For the works that the Father has given me to accomplish, the very works that I am doing, bear witness about me that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen, and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe the one whom he has sent. You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. I do not receive glory from people. But I know that you do not have the love of God within you. I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”
theological wrote: » Muslims don't believe that Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God or in the Trinity or in any other number of essential beliefs that Christians do. They deny the essential place of the cross in solving the problem of how a holy God dwells with a sinful people. Despite popular belief the difference between Christianity and Islam is not small. Islamic teaching about Jesus deviates so far from Christianity that they cannot be said to be the same in this regard. In fact that Qur'an is pretty revisionist in what it does share in common with Christianity, even in accounts from the Old Testament that feature it differs on important points. In short - no they don't believe in the same God. If they believed in the same God, they would believe the same things about Jesus. That's basically the same approach Jesus took to explaining it in John 5 for example.
realdanbreen wrote: » So what you're saying is that 1.3billion people believe in one God and 2.3 billion people believe in a different God not to mention the other couple of billion who believe in a completely different assortment of Gods! Is it any wonder that I along with many others are sceptical about the whole thing.
theological wrote: » In short - no they don't believe in the same God. If they believed in the same God, they would believe the same things about Jesus.
realdanbreen wrote: » Answering yes would not have changed anything but not giving a straight answer to my post isn't much help either. Do you think the 2.3billion Christians and the 1.3billion muslims are worshiping the same God?
theological wrote: » In short - no they don't believe in the same God.
Effects wrote: » Nah, same god. Just different stories about him. You hardly think there’s two different gods in heaven do you?
theological wrote: » In short - no they don't believe in the same God. If they believed in the same God, they would believe the same things about Jesus. That's basically the same approach Jesus took to explaining it in John 5 for example.
Peregrinus wrote: » Mmm. The same logic would lead to the conclusion that Jews and Christians don't believe in the same God. But the same Christians who tell you they worship a different God from Muslims would indignantly deny that they worship a differfent God from Jews. Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same God - the One God, the omnipotentent, omniscient, all-loving God who created all things other than himself, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob. If there's an outlier among the three groups its the Christians, who believe that God is Trinity, and that God became incarnate in the person of Jesus. Jews and Muslims both deny this. Whatever other differences they may have, Jews and Muslims are in absolutely no doubt, and never have been in any doubt, that they both worship the same God. And they agree that Christians also worship that God, albeit that Christians have some pretty odd ideas about him. This presents a real problem for those Christians who wish to claim that they worship the God of the Jews, but that Muslims worship a different God, because that's very hard to reconcile with the fact that Jewish and Muslim ideas about God have a lot more in common with one another than either of them do with Christian ideas.
John 8:42-47 wrote: Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”
santana75 wrote: » What is this about? Why would Jesus allow any concession to demons? Why not just cast them out and throw them into the so called bottomless pit? It seems like a compassionate act by Jesus, but compassion for demons, why?
ChrisJ84 wrote: » Finally, it shows Jesus' authority over all created things, including the demons - they can only do what he permits them to do.
theological wrote: » I'm not actually sure the Islamic view of God coheres as closely to the Jewish idea of God. There are also fundamental differences there too. For example, who is the child of the promise, and the nature of sin. I don't think the Jewish idea of God post-rejection of Jesus is actually the same God either. In so far as they reject Him as coming from the Son of God, they don't believe in the same God as the God Moses spoke about. That's the point that He is labouring at the end of John 5. Jesus is the one who makes God known (1:18). Jesus is the very word of God who spoke from creation (1:1-3). If we say that Jews and Muslims believe in the same God, we are denying that belief in Jesus is essential to knowing God in His true form. In one of the more heated exchanges Jesus has in John's gospel we see the following: I don't worship the same God as Jews who have rejected Jesus, because believing in Jesus is essential to knowing God. Shying away from the distinctives and the centrality of the Christian gospel namely that Jesus is fully God and fully man and that this is essential to God's character sells Jesus short. That's why I reject the idea that Christians follow the same God as Muslims and Jews. We don't, we follow the God of the Bible who is revealed to us supremely in Jesus Christ (Hebrews 1:1).
Mango Joe wrote: » Could somebody please advise on the one true God? - If it helps I'm deeply judgemental, hypocritical, misogynistic, homophobic and very small-minded...... I'm also ridiculously intolerant of the beliefs of others. Thanks in advance.
Peregrinus wrote: » Well, my advice would be that, if you want to get closer to the one true God, you need to be ready to let go of all these characteristics.
Mango Joe wrote: » Ok but it seems fair to say up front that I'll be looking for those within my chosen religion to lead by example..... Ah...I'm sure that won't be an issue.
Peregrinus wrote: » Well, you're consistent, I'll say that for you. But I think your position is too extreme, and is contradicted by scripture. If "believing in Jesus is essential to knowing God", as you say, then nobody who lived before the time of Jesus can be said to have known God - not the patriarchs, not the prophets, nobody. On your view, then, Jews have never worshipped God. But of course that view is abundantly contradicted in scripture. I think your problem here is that you are equating "knowing God' and "worshipping God". This is wrong, if only because, with our limited understanding and our fallen humanity, we can never fully know God. To worship God it's not necessary to know him fully, or even to know him as fully as you might; it's enough to seek him. Those who never hear the message of Jesus, or who hear it but do not accept it, may perhaps be said to know God less than they otherwise would, but it can't be said that, as a result, they don't worship God.
theological wrote: » The Son of God is an essential fundamental characteristic of who God is in His triune nature. In so far as Jews and Muslims don't honour Jesus as they should, I can't say they worship the same God, because Jesus Himself wouldn't.
Peregrinus wrote: » Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same God - the One God, the omnipotentent, omniscient, all-loving God who created all things other than himself, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob. If there's an outlier among the three groups its the Christians, who believe that God is Trinity, and that God became incarnate in the person of Jesus. Jews and Muslims both deny this.
theological wrote: » That's why I reject the idea that Christians follow the same God as Muslims and Jews. We don't, we follow the God of the Bible who is revealed to us supremely in Jesus Christ (Hebrews 1:1).
ChrisJ84 wrote: » The statement that Christians, Jews and Muslims all worship the same God is true only at the most superficial leve . . .
theological wrote: » I appreciate this is a cheeky question, but if you think I'm "extreme" for quoting the words of Jesus verbatim from the gospel, then do you also think that Jesus was extreme? Surely you can see that that is problematic if so?
theological wrote: » In order to worship, you need to be aware of who you are worshipping. Who you are worshipping is crucially important. The identity of the God we worship depends on what He has revealed to us about Himself. That isn't a minor detail. I don't agree that the patriarchs didn't know God, or the prophets. They knew and acknowledged God as He revealed Himself to them. I believe Scripture is a progressive revelation. Now about the patriarchs and the prophets, we know God in a much clearer way now than they did then in and through Christ. The Scriptures are clear about that we have in Christ what the prophets and what angels longed to see. (1 Peter 1:12). But to continually deny the Son of God, after Christ, is a rejection of God's eternal nature based on what He has revealed about Himself. The Son of God is an essential fundamental characteristic of who God is in His triune nature. In so far as Jews and Muslims don't honour Jesus as they should, I can't say they worship the same God, because Jesus Himself wouldn't.
ScottCapper wrote: » Why isn’t there an Islamic thread?
Peregrinus wrote: » On the contrary, it's profoundly true, both theologically and historically. I accept, of course, that Christians, Jews and Muslims have some different ideas about God. Indeed, that's true within each of those three religions as well as between them. But this doesn't mean that they worship different Gods. To claim that it does is to claim that the reality of the God we worship is determined by our conceptions about him - that God is, in the most literal sense, a creature of our imagination.
ChrisJ84 wrote: » . . . When anyone says "Christians, Muslim and Jews all worship the same God" we really need to ask, "What do you mean by that, and what are you implying?" Usually it's something along the lines of all paths lead to truth, or the pluralistic notion that we all believe more or less the same things.
Peregrinus wrote: » That's nonsense, Chris. People who say that Christians, Jews and Muslims worship the same God justify this by pointing to (a) the common concept of God that is shared by all three religions, both as a theoligical construct and as an actor in human history, and (b) the undoubted historical fact that Christians and Muslims inherited their concept of God from Judaism.
Peregrinus wrote: » Let me ask you this. If one Christian's understanding of God includes this characteristic: "is not the same God as Jews and Muslims worship", and another Christian's concept of God includes this characteristic "is the same God as Jews and Muslims worship", given that they have directly contradictory undstandings of God, one of which must be objectively wrong, are those two Christians worshipping the same God?
ChrisJ84 wrote: » If someone can sincerely subscribe to (for example) the Apostles Creed then we are certainly worshipping the same God, whatever else we may disagree on. If they can't, then unfortunately we are not.
Effects wrote: » ChrisJ84 wrote: » If someone can sincerely subscribe to (for example) the Apostles Creed then we are certainly worshipping the same God, whatever else we may disagree on. If they can't, then unfortunately we are not. But by your own definition, are you saying there is more than one God? Or just that your God must be the only one true god because you happen to believe so? Surely just because you believe something doesn't make it correct or true.
Effects wrote: » But by your own definition, are you saying there is more than one God? Or just that your God must be the only one true god because you happen to believe so? Surely just because you believe something doesn't make it correct or true.
Prestonites wrote: » If you read your word you will see it discussed that all religions worship the one God. They consider the same almighty and omnipresent God, they may have different perceptions or views on Jesus I.E Islam- Holy trinity But to me as a Christian, I see the same Christ that Catholics see or muslims see. Our forms of worship may be different but end game is the same.
