steddyeddy wrote: » OK let's call it white supremacist terrorism. Those with extreme victim complexes regarding immigrants and an insecurity around ones own race projected as an inferiority of other races.
jackofalltrades wrote: » Calling terrorism committed by people who happen to be white as "white terrorism", is as dumb as referring to violent Islamists as Arab terrorists, just because they happen to be Arab. You may as well talk about bi-pedal or carnivore terrorism. You seem to think being a member of a race is comparable with being a member of a group with a shared ideology. So you've moved on from talking about white terrorism to now talking about mass shootings. Islamist terrorism has shown the ability to carry out wide scale attacks with casualties in the thousands and is persistent threat on a global level. Far-right/white supremacist terrorism while being a serious threat is no where near the same level. Exactly, your interpretation, other people defending her have a different interpretation. And no she didn't refer to white people, just white men.
hill16bhoy wrote: » White supremacist terrorism is explicitly...in its tracks.
DreamsBurnDown wrote: » Hopefully we can agree that every life is of equal value, and every murder is utterly defenseless and an absolute tragedy. In this context, the statement that "America should be more fearful of white men" is utter garbage, and particular garbage if you are an African American. Of the roughly 3,000 solved cases of African Americans murdered each year, ~250 were murdered by whites. The reality is whatever race you are, the most you have to fear from is your own race, as the vast majority of murder victims (and victims of violent crime in general) are killed by their own race. The murder rates are roughly 20/100,000 for African Americans, 5/100,000 for Hispanics and 3/100,000 for whites. Roughly 50% of all murder victims are African Americans and of the cases solved, 90% were killed by fellow African Americans. The real American tragedy is the overall murder rate, about 17,000 victims per year. The number of people killed in mass killings, involving 3 or more, is no more than 100 per year, but yet these get all the attention. The other 16,900 victims are surely of equal importance. Obama tried to shine a light on this national tragedy but if anything it has got worse, it is utterly insane what is going on in America's inner cities, and gets scant attention in the media.
jackofalltrades wrote: » Calling terrorism committed by people who happen to be white as "white terrorism", is as dumb as referring to violent Islamists as Arab terrorists, just because they happen to be Arab.
Matt Barrett wrote: » Terrorism perpetrated by whites. Pretty self explanatory.
If a Muslim kills she's asked to condemn it, because she's Muslim. Or she risks being accused of supporting it. When a white person shoots up a cinema, nobody expects any white politician to have to denounce it or risk being seen to support it.
There have been 250 mass shooting in the US so far. How many ISIS/Al Qaeda attacks?
Her point, in my interpretation, was that the average american has more to fear from white people than Jihadis. On a percentage scale she's got a point. It's only clumsy when it's taken out of context like the OP. She's a member of congress not a presidential candidate.
Matt Barrett wrote: » She had a point and the gun lobby are happy to ignore it. Jihadi's don't make up a significant NRA/Gun customer base after all.
fly_agaric wrote: » It's not a "set up"...it's just logic and I don't see any flaw in it assuming you are using your "white" terrorism term as shorthand for violence by right wing extremists in the US for impact. Listening to opening post video that sounded like what Omar meant as well (she referred to radicalisation). Trump and his followers will abhor the violence and say its nothing to do with them or their beliefs/ideology in same way that you see on the other side of the coin, but it is not true. Is it? I'm not sure but didn't get into it earlier. Islamic extremists do have attacks on Sept. 11th 2001 weighing in their "favour" although that may be too long ago/you might be too young to remember it. edit: I think Islamists have been a bigger threat since Sept. 11th hence the resources & focus, but will be interesting to see how FBI, police etc. will deal with right wing extremisim if its growing as a threat again in the US given who is in power at the present. What left sometimes deny is that the extremism has to do with Islam. That the extremists are not real muslims anyway etc. I think mental health has been linked to several of the Islamist attacks as a factor. I mean most people who will swallow extremist propaganda and go on to do a terrorist attack will have issues I think... I have found an article (2018) that discusses it.https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/world/americas/islamic-state-mental-health.html"After a 31-year-old man used a cargo truck to crush 86 people to death on the promenade in Nice, France, his distraught father rushed to tell reporters his son had once suffered a nervous breakdown. When Omar Mateen used a Sig Sauer MCX semiautomatic rifle to gun down 49 people at an Orlando nightclub, relatives described him as bipolar. And in Canada this week, after a 29-year-old man opened fire on a street full of cafes, hitting 15 people and killing two, his family issued a statement: Faisal Hussain, it said, had long struggled with mental illness." I don't usually post here and did not see it. I don't really think anyone in that position should have to justify themselves personally, certainly not for crimes of others because they are the same ethnicity. People do have to justify their ideology though and religion is a part of that as is politics. I'm betting Trump and the republicans in general are going to have to do a lot of justifying of their views & repeated denouncing of violence given what has happened.
jackofalltrades wrote: » First off, what's white terrorism? Do you mean white supremacists or far-right terrorism committed by white people? Secondly it's fairly obvious why Islamic extremism gets a lot more attention in the US, namely the significantly higher death toll. Why would the ethnicity be mentioned? Omar's comment are at best clumsy and poorly explained. At worst they're quite divisive. I'd expect a more from a presidential candidate.
Matt Barrett wrote: » That's a fine set up you have there if built on faulty foundations.
Matt Barrett wrote: » If you compare white terrorism to Islamist, there's a hell of a lot more attention time and money given to one over the other, despite the homegrown white brand being the far greater threat, based on death toll. She's pointing out that people should maybe be more fearful of that.
Matt Barrett wrote: » Also if you can show anyone denying there's any problem with Muslim extremism, I'd be interested to read it.
Matt Barrett wrote: » On mental health, we never hear about an Islamist terrorist's mental health. When a white kid guns down innocents we see how they fell through the cracks, it was video games, porn, bad family life etc. We find excuses, anything other than ethnicity.
Matt Barrett wrote: » I agree though, not all whites are terrorists. See how frustrating it must be for a minority? As Ilhan Omar herself has stated almost every day she's asked to denounce Muslim or immigrant related crimes. Does the press walk up to white congress people to ask same based on their being white? We'd a whole thread on AOC not responding to such a question.
jackofalltrades wrote: » Matt Barrett wrote: » If you compare white terrorism to Islamist, there's a hell of a lot more attention time and money given to one over the other, despite the homegrown white brand being the far greater threat, based on death toll. She's pointing out that people should maybe be more fearful of that. First off, what's white terrorism? Do you mean white supremacists or far-right terrorism committed by white people? Secondly it's fairly obvious why Islamic extremism gets a lot more attention in the US, namely the significantly higher death toll. On mental health, we never hear about an Islamist terrorist's mental health. Because When a white kid guns down innocents we see how they fell through the cracks, it was video games, porn, bad family life etc.We find excuses, anything other than ethnicity. Why would the ethnicity be mentioned? Omar's comment are at best clumsy and poorly explained. At worst they're quite divisive. I'd expect a more from a presidential candidate.
On mental health, we never hear about an Islamist terrorist's mental health. Because When a white kid guns down innocents we see how they fell through the cracks, it was video games, porn, bad family life etc.We find excuses, anything other than ethnicity.
fly_agaric wrote: » IMO likes of Ilhan Omar on the left in the US are correct re far right ideology/white "nationalism" being a driver for mass shootings in the US. Trump's election & his politics and statements since then have ginned up these people. Of course you can profile that by "race" or better by politics/ideology... However they will not accept same re the Islamist terrorism in the US and Europe and its ideological underpinnings. For this they prefer to have other factors (Western foreign policy, poverty, anger at discrimination, mental health issues) as complete explanations. The left doesn't like such profiling being applied in that case, even though the connections are just as obvious (given by terrorists themsleves in their own manifestos and videos, just like with the right wing terrorism). I know in that case its a minority grouping (muslims) that are often already disadvantaged in the West and there is a desire to protect them from a backlash but it seems hypocritical of them to me.
Matt Barrett wrote: » So in regards to white terrorism and Islamic. I think whitey is ahead on death count.
Ulysses Gaze wrote: » ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You know we have crossed the Rubicon when far left posters are still harping on about Russian bots with little to no evidence of such Years ago, and even still today, they'd be calling Alex Jones a tinfoil hat, crank for alluding to this type of stuff. Far Left = Far Right when it comes to this conspiracy stuff. You're all nuts to believe it.
'Mitch McConnell is a Russian' trends after GOP senator blocks election security billshttps://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/454999-mitch-mcconnell-is-a-russian-trends-after-gop-senator-blocks
splashuum wrote: » In a bizarre statement Ilhan Omar claims Americans should be more fearful of white men. These comment are totally incorrect seeming as the homicide rate committed by black men is soaring. Its frightening to see people gobble up her garbage. I firmly believe she could play a major factor in getting Trump re-elected due to her radical views.https://twitter.com/mollyfprince/status/1154039284950716419
Ilhan Omar suggests people should be ‘more fearful of white men’ than jihadists in 2018 interviewhttps://nypost.com/2019/07/25/ilhan-omar-suggests-people-should-be-more-fearful-of-white-men-than-jihadists-in-2018-interview/
splashuum wrote: » https://www.facebook.com/TraditionalWesternMan/photos/a.575611352649492/1147507385459883/?type=3&theater The vast vast majority of mass shootings are carried out by black men. Sad to see people not realising this. All men in this image listed below:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2019?fbclid=IwAR0YWRZQ6rjiivmGOYc8YaCEVTXF7tOSRm8jzzuSkjks--k3drDWu3g3Sxs
notobtuse wrote: » Is it your contention that alerting the public to the horrid conditions in parts of Baltimore, as a result of their failed leadership, is racist
notobtuse wrote: » Sadly, it's the truth. Black GOP members are called such things as Uncle Tom, brainwashed, sellouts, traitors. It's like saying they can't think for themselves. Who wants to go through that? Here's an example from just the other day of Lemon of CNN attacking Rev. Owens...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXmJikGe7z0
steddyeddy wrote: » "Orchestrated by blacks"...... I don't think this can be a pleasent debate at this stage.
notobtuse wrote: » What black person in their right mind would run for national office as a republican in this age of hatred towards republican blacks… orchestrated by democrats, liberals and blacks. Who could blame them for not putting themselves through it.
steddyeddy wrote: » The only black Republican congressman is standing down after accusing Trump of xenophobia and racism.
mike_ie wrote: » Mod: You're obviously not willing to engage in anything remotely resembling an adult discussion. Don't post in this thread again.
