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Mass shooting in Dayton Ohio

banie01

Another mass shooting in US today with multiple fatalities.(Within 13hrs of El Paso attack)

Edit: 9 dead and 26 wounded in Dayton Ohio.
The shooter was killed within @1minute of opening fire yet 35people were hit.
Surely evidence that high capacity semi auto or full auto have no real place in "public" hands.
Shooter also in body armour

The US is reaping the benefits of Trump and right wing antagonism.
I really do hope that some change can be brought about to cut the volume of these incidents and reduce the divisiveness that is driving so many people to these acts

That White men are the primary actors in these attacks, needs to be addressed and dealt with.

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Silentcorner

When it comes to gun violence in the US, doesn't the breakdown of the traditional family unit have something to do with it...could it be fatherless homes that play a big part in all of that kind of violence?

dublinman1990

These mass shootings bring the official total now to 251 so far in 2019. That statistic should really leave you of being sick to the pit of your stomach.

BBC News just reported that the mass gunman in Ohio is now among the dead. The local police in Ohio had killed him within one minute of him holding gunfire.

greencap

there is no solution.
the cat is out of the bag as regards weapons, you may as well try picking up raindrops in a storm.

that theres a prevalence of white guys doing the mass shooting is not surprising due to demographics and probability.

the US will now just suffer the consequences of its decisions. the pro-guns won, and here is their prize.

riclad

Theres zero mass shootings in japan, to buy a gun you have to do a written test, and the police visit you once a year to check is it stored in a safe place.Theres very few people who own guns in japan apart from security gaurds or the police force .
Every walmart has a section where you can buy rifles and small guns .
Every large town has a branch of walmart or target .
The solution is strict gun control regulation and complete records of every person who owns a gun,
and anyone who buys ammo or bullets .
theres no reason for an ordinary person to need to own a machine gun .
deer hunters use rifles for hunting .

Overheal

InTheShadows wrote: »

Black's kill more people per day with guns than any other sector of American society. But you know Trump something something

This is a misconstrued claim based on incomplete data:

More blacks are KILLED with guns than any other demographic.

The majority of SHOOTERS are NEVER caught or identified.

There is no evidence to connect that the ethnicity of the victim directly correlates to the ethnicity of the shooter. QED: the Texas shooter wasn’t Hispanic.

lawlolawl

riclad wrote: »

Theres zero mass shootings in japan, to buy a gun you have to do a written test, and the police visit you once a year to check is it stored in a safe place.Theres very few people who own guns in japan apart from security gaurds or the police force .
Every walmart has a section where you can buy rifles and small guns .

Even the organised crime gangs have a hard time getting guns in Japan. There's **** all in the country that they can steal and they try to smuggle them in from China with patchy success.

It's the reason that Aum Shinrikyo built their own labs to make sarin gas rather than attempt to get their hands on a bunch of guns. They had billions of yen but it was just too hard to get the weapons into Japan.

Manic Moran

Someone woke up yesterday, saw the news about the shooting in El Paso, and said to himself something like "what a good idea. I'll go do the same thing".
Or else he thought "That bastard stole my idea. I'd better do it now to increase impact".
Or something like that.

From four years ago
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/yes-mass-killings-inspire-copycats-study-finds-n386141

Police have said so for years and now scientists have measured the effect: Mass shootings and school attacks do inspire copycats.

We have a serious sociological and psychological problem. That problem needs to be dealt with, no matter what happens to firearms in the country. Yet, if the problem is dealt with, then the firearms in the country are less of a public problem.

I would very much like politicians in the US to take a solid, direct effort at dealing with the root causes. No politician in the US is really talking about it in a serious way. Not an easy vote-getter, apparently.

1) The solution is strict gun control regulation and complete records of every person who owns a gun,
and anyone who buys ammo or bullets .
2) theres no reason for an ordinary person to need to own a machine gun .
3) deer hunters use rifles for hunting

1). To what end? I mean, what would you do with the information of who owns a gun? If someone goes on a spree shooting, identification is usually pretty easy anyway.
2) That's OK, most don't.
3) They do, indeed. https://www.guns.com/news/2017/11/17/why-hunters-are-trading-in-traditional-hunting-rifles-for-the-ar-15
https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/deer-hunt/deer-hunting-tips/rig-your-ar-rifle-for-optimal-deer-hunting

banie01

banie01 wrote: »

Just to add.
Regarding Dayton.
I do not yet know the Ethnicity or Motivations of that particular shooter...

It does not alter IMO the fact that the majority of mass shooter in the US are disaffected White men.
It is a conmanality that is quite pronounced and needs to be addressed IMO.

The driving factors behind the radicalism that drives anyone of any colour to believe pulling a trigger is a solution needs addressing.
Be it racism, social isolation and division, political belief or some kind of Uber environmental belief that they can be Thanos with a gun

Not much of a surprise that the assailant is a young, white male.

CNN are reporting the assailants name as Connor Betts.
https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts/

biko

Manic Moran wrote: »

Someone woke up yesterday, saw the news about the shooting in El Paso, and said to himself something like "what a good idea. I'll go do the same thing".

Looking at timeline from MotherJones for shootings they look to cluster, not too sure about copycat motive though. Every shooting needs to be analysed for that.

and for some reason takes off big time in 2012.
I'm sure there is similar data for beyond 2014

As can been here the number of days between shooting are decreasing
http://assets.motherjones.com/politics/2014/10/activeShooter.png

dublinman1990

Channel 4 News & BBC News reported there that the gunman's 22 year old sister was also killed in the shooting in Ohio.

Timberrrrrrrr

Sister of gunman among nine dead in Ohio shooting

https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/8B3UY

Sent via @updayUK

The sister of the Ohio gunman and her boyfriend have been found shot dead in a car just hours after the 24-year-old opened fire in a crowded bar, killing nine and injuring 27 others in less than a minute

klaaaz

6 of the 9 victims were black. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49229054

Plumbthedepths

Thoughts and prayers.....

InTheShadows

banie01 wrote: »

That's a nice way to dance around random unprovoked incidents of mass shootings targeting race or sexuality.

How many incidents of mass shootings of the 251 incidents to date in the US this year were carried out by people of colour?

Yes black violence is higher, particularly in areas like Chicago.
However that is primarily gang driven and as such however perverse the motivation for the shooting, there is a motive other than "I'm angry and racist"

Of the total number of school shootings, how many have been carried out by people of colour?
Of the total of spree shootings, how many have been carried out by people of colour?

It's quite disingenuous to conflate the total US gun violence figure including gang, domestic violence and robbery with Spree shootings and then claim it's racist when the predominantly white ethnic background of spree shooters is raised.

The facts don't lie. You are the one doing the dancing.

banie01

InTheShadows wrote: »

The facts don't lie. You are the one doing the dancing.

You have yet to actually lay out any facts rekated to spree killings or demonstrate any actual understanding of the numbers you have posted?
Other than more Blacks die, what is your actual thesis?

How about answering the questions I asked regarding the proportion of spree shooters who are White versus those who are black?

This is a discussion about mass shootings and spree murders.
Please demonstrate how the link you posted, relates to killings and their perpetrators in those particular circumstances?

InTheShadows

Overheal wrote: »

This is a misconstrued claim based on incomplete data:

More blacks are KILLED with guns than any other demographic.

The majority of SHOOTERS are NEVER caught or identified.

There is no evidence to connect that the ethnicity of the victim directly correlates to the ethnicity of the shooter. QED: the Texas shooter wasn’t Hispanic.

Why are you shouting?

Blacks are the biggest killers of any ethnic grouping in the US. I've presented the facts when asked and i know from my time spent living in the US that this was true then and is still true now. Because it's gang violence it doesn't excuse it.

Anyway im out as iv'e shown the facts and figures and some just can't accept the truth when it's presented to them.

Overheal

InTheShadows wrote: »

Why are you shouting?

Blacks are the biggest killers of any ethnic grouping in the US. I've presented the facts when asked and i know from my time spent living in the US that this was true then and is still true now. Because it's gang violence it doesn't excuse it.

Anyway im out as iv'e shown the facts and figures and some just can't accept the truth when it's presented to them.

“I’ve the facts but I’m not showing them and leaving the discussion.”

Bye

Most of the victims were black, but the shooter wasn’t. Hmmm

Sweetemotion

Overheal wrote: »

This is a misconstrued claim based on incomplete data:

More blacks are KILLED with guns than any other demographic.

The majority of SHOOTERS are NEVER caught or identified.

There is no evidence to connect that the ethnicity of the victim directly correlates to the ethnicity of the shooter. QED: the Texas shooter wasn’t Hispanic.

That's Clutching at straws and you know it.

And saying the Texas shooter wasn't Hispanic isn't evidence of your claim either.

Woodsie1

More whites commit mass shooting because America has more whites living there than any other "person of colour".

Manic Moran

biko wrote: »

Looking at timeline from MotherJones for shootings they look to cluster, not too sure about copycat motive though. Every shooting needs to be analysed for that

Oh, there isn't much quarrel on the issue of copycats. From 4 years ago.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/yes-mass-killings-inspire-copycats-study-finds-n386141

Police have said so for years and now scientists have measured the effect: Mass shootings and school attacks do inspire copycats.

As many as 20 to 30 percent of attacks are set off by other attacks, according to researchers at Arizona State University and Northeastern Illinois University.

Or more recently
http://www.center4research.org/copy-cats-kill/

Shooters get enormous attention: their name, photo, motivations, and story are often shared for days following the event. The American Psychological Association points out that this “fame” is something that most mass shooters desire
...
Studies indicate that the more media attention a shooter gets, the more likely the event will inspire a future mass shooter
...
As long as the media continue to focus their news stories on the attacker, it is likely that the contagion will continue. The American Psychological Association recommends that mass media deny shooters the fame they desire by not sharing so many details about them and instead direct their attention to the victims and their stories.

Which brings us back to two points. First, that there is fundamentally something wrong with some people who need help. And second, there is a very easy way to knock some 30% off the number of shootings without any particular requirements for new regulation.

jaxxx

Again? Christ. The big issue I have with guns is this: guns weren't built for defending, they were built for killing. No one outside of the army in active service should have guns IMO. But then it's not as simple as that, cos criminals will just get them through the black market, which means armed police need them, and so a huge escalation race sets off in a vicious cycle.

Sweetemotion

jaxxx wrote: »

Again? Christ. The big issue I have with guns is this: guns weren't built for defending, they were built for killing. No one outside of the army in active service should have guns IMO. But then it's not as simple as that, cos criminals will just get them through the black market, which means armed police need them, and so a huge escalation race sets off in a vicious cycle.

Which army? And who chooses, which one is defending and which one is attacking .

lawlolawl

jaxxx wrote: »

Again? Christ. The big issue I have with guns is this: guns weren't built for defending, they were built for killing.

Killing someone is a pretty good way of defending something.

It's pretty much the best way of defending something in fact.

jaxxx

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Which army? And who chooses, which one is defending and which one is protecting.

Humans create guns to use against.. .. .. humans?

UK vs USA vs Iran vs China vs Russia vs.. .. ..

All this money spent on defence and the only threat we face is ourselves?

Until such time as the aliens or robots take over that is.

Sweetemotion

jaxxx wrote: »

Humans create guns to use against.. .. .. humans?

UK vs USA vs Iran vs China vs Russia vs.. .. ..

All this money spent on defence and the only threat we face is ourselves?

Until such time as the aliens or robots take over that is.

Has somebody been watching planet of the apes tonight or just stoned?

hatrickpatrick

banie01 wrote: »

That White men are the primary actors in these attacks, needs to be addressed and dealt with.

Maybe we could start by addressing the fact that if society continues to use certain people as a 'legitimate' and 'allowed' punching bag because of who they are, eventually those people will snap, and those of a certain psychological disposition will snap in ways which are unpredictable, violent, and dangerous?

The alt-right only came into mainstream prominence in 2016 in the context of a three-year campaign from 2013 onwards by vocal commentators and the media to push this toxic agenda that racism and sexism aren't just about bigotry, but collectivist social status as well. As soon as it became "ok" to print flagrantly anti-white, anti-male headlines - and to excuse the behaviour of downright psychotic racists and sexists in a way which would never be excused if their bigotry was targeted towards any other demographic (Sarah Jeong anyone?) - a violent, reactionary movement born out of frustration at being constantly pilloried and mocked with absolutely no recourse to object or retaliate, was the inevitable result.

What's been happening over the last number of years doesn't surprise me in the least. If someone spends their entire childhood or teenage years constantly reading about how sh!t they are as human beings because of who they were born as, coming from the mainstream, "respected" media which would never tolerate such commentary about anyone else, they are going to feel angry, aggrieved, discriminated against, and hopeless. Some proportion of these people will deal with it in dangerous and violent ways - such is always the case when persecution and resentment meet mental illness.

A mainstream culture which tolerates abhorrent cultural phenomena such as #KillAllMen and "cancel white people", while simultaneously battering both of these demographics any time they have the temerity to object, is a f*cking powder keg waiting to be ignited.

JP Liz V1

klaaaz wrote: »

6 of the 9 victims were black. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49229054

RIP

Kermit.de.frog

FG youth leader attends US right wing conference.

The Fine Gaeler....

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/anger-as-fg-youth-leader-attends-us-rightwing-conference-38374027.html

I'm just sayin...

Manic Moran

Overheal wrote: »

This is a misconstrued claim based on incomplete data:

More blacks are KILLED with guns than any other demographic.

The majority of SHOOTERS are NEVER caught or identified.

There is no evidence to connect that the ethnicity of the victim directly correlates to the ethnicity of the shooter. QED: the Texas shooter wasn’t Hispanic.

Apparently the FBI has sufficient data for a little under half of all murders where they can list the races of both victim and offender. You are correct to say that there is no direct correlation, but 6,000 cases out of 15,000 is enough to indicate a trend.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers

banie01

Manic Moran wrote: »

Apparently the FBI has sufficient data for a little under half of all murders where they can list the races of both victim and offender. You are correct to say that there is no direct correlation, but 6,000 cases out of 15,000 is enough to indicate a trend.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers

Again as I said to a different poster.
That is looking at the overall murder rate.

It is not looking at spree killing in isolation.
Of every spree killing that records are held for, what is the ratio of White perpetrators? To people of colour?

All facets of gun violence are an issue stateside, there is much that needs to be done on every level to address that violence.
However, the thrust of this thread is the preponderance of White Male spree shooters/mass murderers.
The total murder by violence rate plays no real part in a comparison here of black versus white IMO.