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The eBike thread

unkel

A quick look seems that this doesn't really seem to fit in the cycling forum. So starting a thread here about all things eBike

I'll get the ball rolling. I have zero experience with eBikes. But I was going to build myself a battery anyway, for various reasons (like in bringing with me in my EV as a "petrol can")

I'm going to buy a solderless kit to make the battery (with 18650 cells I have removed from dead / old laptop batteries). This kit cah handle 20A max, and I would like the battery pack to produce 1kW constant. P=V*I so 1000W = 50V * 20A

This dictates that my battery needs to be nominal 48V (was thinking of making a 24V battery pack, but that won't be able to charge my car)

A quick browse on eBay and Amazon shows that you could buy a powerful 1000W bike conversion kit with everything needed except the battery for about GBP120 (a bit more from Amazon but peace of mind)

What to buy though, front wheel or rear wheel kit? Pros and cons? Any other advice?

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unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

What charger is it ? link ? do the batteries have a 3rd wire too ?

See my above links. Cheap Chinese charger (€3 including shipping) and the battery pack has just an XT60 connector (so no other wires except DC positive and DC negative)

[Deleted User]

unkel wrote: »

See my above links. Cheap Chinese charger (€3 including shipping) and the battery pack has just an XT60 connector (so no other wires except DC positive and DC negative)

The plug on the charger is probably just using 2 of the 3 pins.

unkel

I'll know when I snap it off

unkel

Picked up my kit from Parcel Motel large packages in Finglas today. Installed. Was pretty straight forward (and I'm no DIY hero). Expecting my battery in the regular Parcel Motel tomorrow. Hopefully first test tomorrow evening

[Deleted User]

unkel wrote: »

Picked up my kit from Parcel Motel large packages in Finglas today. Installed. Was pretty straight forward (and I'm no DIY hero). Expecting my battery in the regular Parcel Motel tomorrow. Hopefully first test tomorrow evening

Pics,

What battery did you get in the end ?

unkel

Went for a 36V 4Ah pack with built in BMS, brand new for the glorious sum of €47 incl. delivery and Parcel Motel charges

Got an XT60 cable from a local model shop that I chopped up and crimped to the cable from the kit that I also chopped up. Working grand. It's the tiny blue pack behind the saddle. Can't do range test, as the batteries were only 60% SOC (as they should for transport / storage) and I don't have charger yet.

Great fun, with the dog chasing me up and down the cul-the-sac

Pretty fast too, faster than I need, even without pedalling

[Deleted User]

Well done Unkel, nothing like your first ebike build,

just make sure your wheel nuts stay tight, make sure the torque washers are always firmly in place.

Keep checking the controller , if it gets very warm you'll need to take it out of the bag.

unkel

xckjoo wrote: »

Just a heads up that I don't see a pedal sensor listed in the description. I'm sure you can pick that up separately though. I'd recommend the type that clip on so you don't have to remove the bottom bracket on the bike. The skin on your knuckles will thank you
Something like this :
https://www.ev-power.eu/EVBike-electric-bikes/SPARE-PART-Pedal-assistant-for-EV-BIKE-split-frame-mount.html

I'm only starting to understand some of this stuff now. To make my eBike fully equal to a normal push bike, I need to replace the throttle that came with the kit, with a pedal sensor? And this senses when you pedal and then applies full power of the motor? Do these have the same connector as my throttle does, so can plug straight into the controller? Looks like they do:

Linky

Those €2 eBay sensors look like a bitch to fit, even if you have the right tools (which I don't). So the one in your link can be fitted without having to take the axis off, just the pedal? The connector looks different though?

[Deleted User]

unkel wrote: »

I'm only starting to understand some of this stuff now. To make my eBike fully equal to a normal push bike, I need to replace the throttle that came with the kit, with a pedal sensor? And this senses when you pedal and then applies full power of the motor? Do these have the same connector as my throttle does, so can plug straight into the controller? Looks like they do:

Linky

Those €2 eBay sensors look like a bitch to fit, even if you have the right tools (which I don't). So the one in your link can be fitted without having to take the axis off, just the pedal? The connector looks different though?

I've never fitted a PAS system and as far as I'm aware there should be a PAS connector for PAS sensor, if not I wouldn't connect it to the throttle, last thing you want is wide open throttle, lol.

They won't be PAS as the like of Bosch which uses torque sensing, these systems are speed sensors and offers a completely different experience to torque which is vastly superior.

So in my opinion, keep the throttle and just pretend to pedal.

I take it you fund out already how much of a B1tch it is to pedal without power ?

krissovo

Once you have a throttle its becomes a bad habit and you end up using that all the time. I recently took mine off and now use the pedal sensor exclusively so at least I get some form of exercise.

krissovo

This is my beast, its fun overtaking Uber expensive MTB’s on the Ballyhoura trails. I have recently added brake sensors and they make a safer ride.

Calahonda52

krissovo wrote: »

Once you have a throttle its becomes a bad habit and you end up using that all the time. I recently took mine off and now use the pedal sensor exclusively so at least I get some form of exercise.

I like the throttle, especially in traffic, at lights etc.
I did a lot of e-biking between San Mateo and Santa Barbara and got very used to it, it is also much less pressure on the hips and lower back when starting off.

unkel

krissovo wrote: »

I have recently added brake sensors and they make a safer ride.

What are they? My kit came with replacement brake handles, that connect to the controller. If I press either handle, the motor is cut off. Does your system work differently? Regen braking on the driven wheel would be nice too, but I guess that is expensive?

Also does your battery and controller all fit in that box? What power motor and what battery setup do you have?

krissovo

unkel wrote: »

What are they? My kit came with replacement brake handles, that connect to the controller. If I press either handle, the motor is cut off. Does your system work differently? Regen braking on the driven wheel would be nice too, but I guess that is expensive

Also does your battery and controller all fit in that box? What power motor and what battery setup do you have?

Mine came with the standard crap brake handles that were flexing at speed so I added the sensors to the existing brake setup I had. I now have far superior stopping power, I also added similar sensor for the gears so they do not “crunch” under load.

The battery is a 52v 14.5 ah samsung, I believe the controller is located in the motor which I bought as a 500w motor but looking at the case it has 750 stamped on the side.

[Deleted User]

krissovo wrote: »

This is my beast, its fun overtaking Uber expensive MTB’s on the Ballyhoura trails. I have recently added brake sensors and they make a safer ride.

Nice Neat setup,

That's probably more like 1 Kw peak or 1200 watts depending on what the controller was set to , I know on EM3EV it could be set to a lower power. But with the cable and software you can do it yourself.

That's the BBS02 isn't it ? That would suit me fine but I don't think they make it any more because they now make the BBSHD.

Anyway, for all the cycling I get to do these days I will just keep my 2013 Bosch but it's a waste having it because I rarely use it. Country roads and no cycle lanes !

[Deleted User]

See below my 3rd Ebike I made up. This was definitely my favourite, this is the MAC 8T Motor.

Below then you will see the cycle analyst which was dead handy for monitoring voltage , current and ah pulled from the pack so it was easy to know exactly what you use and what's left.

Also you will see all my LiPo, this was about 66 volts hot off the charger and allowed me about 64 Km/h, oh yes, I really loved this setup !

The Town in the background is Carlow Town. Pic was taken from Rossmore in County laois.

And the all essential torque arms, I was running about 3 Kw into this motor !

[Deleted User]

This is what I have since 2013. Haibike , powered by a Bosch 50 Nm motor, tiny power compared to what I was used to and for long steep hills I wish it had more power but it's amazingly efficient and I got up to the RTE mast up Mount Leinster on it.

the new Bosch motors, I think for 2019 have addressed the pedal resistance when no power is applies + they are about 75 Nm now or more on their higher end, think they still sell 50 Nm motors but smaller and lighter package.

xckjoo

unkel wrote: »

I'm only starting to understand some of this stuff now. To make my eBike fully equal to a normal push bike, I need to replace the throttle that came with the kit, with a pedal sensor? And this senses when you pedal and then applies full power of the motor? Do these have the same connector as my throttle does, so can plug straight into the controller? Looks like they do:

Linky

Those €2 eBay sensors look like a bitch to fit, even if you have the right tools (which I don't). So the one in your link can be fitted without having to take the axis off, just the pedal? The connector looks different though?

Don't think I even had to take the pedal off with the sensor I linked to. The ring comes apart and clicks around the pedal axel and you have a separate sensor that attaches to the frame (just used a cable tie for that (incidentally, cable tie are your best friend for building eBikes. Should have said that in my first post

)). They're just some kind of magnetic sensor. I'll readily admit I don't find it the best. The controller is a bit conservative with it towards 25kmph and cuts out earlier than I'd like. I still find myself using the hand throttle a good bit or it's slow to kick back in if my speed drops below 25. Technically to be legal I think I would have to get rid of that hand throttle. I assume I could improve the pedal throttle responsive curve through the controller but I haven't looked into reprogramming it yet. Some day I'll do that and remove the hand throttle....
I'll check the wiring tomorrow but there must be two throttle controller wires and as far as I remember they were both the same. Connector plugs could well be different to yours but as far as I know they're all 3 wires inside (+, —, sig?). Happy to be corrected on that though. I'd use away at it for now while you're figuring out the PAS.

unkel

I don't have any "left over" connectors on my controller, so that's the end of it then, no pedal assist for me.

[Deleted User]

unkel wrote: »

I don't have any "left over" connectors on my controller, so that's the end of it then, no pedal assist for me.

It's no surprise , PAS is only a legal requirement in Nanny EU lol.

Don't worry about it, throttle is good.

krissovo

A haibike has been on my wishlist for a few years now, I converted my trusty surly originally just to dip my toe into ebikes.

I am not sure that I could get the same enjoyment from a EU legal setup so have been holding back. I would love the torque sensing and that would be a step up so I may have to look at chipping a Bosch system.

[Deleted User]

krissovo wrote: »

A haibike has been on my wishlist for a few years now, I converted my trusty surly originally just to dip my toe into ebikes.

I am not sure that I could get the same enjoyment from a EU legal setup so have been holding back. I would love the torque sensing and that would be a step up so I may have to look at chipping a Bosch system.

It depends, what attracted me to the Bosch was trying it out in Germany, I was blown away how it could climb a 16% hill so easy with only 250 watts of power, little did I know and later learned that they are more like 500 watts and 700 Watts peak and probably more now because they have 75+ Nm torque.

The next thing that attracted me was the sheer brilliance of Bosh's torque sensing. It feels so natural and you really don't need a throttle.

I found on steep hills my legs and knees can get tired and my pedal cadence can slow down and as a result power is reduced, the Bosch system makes you work and shows no mercy for tired Humans lol and this is where I would like a throttle, still the ability to climb anything with this little motor is amazing + the gearing is what counts the most for climbing 20% + grades like on Mount Leinster, I could not have done it so well with a Hub motor, ok I could but the Hub would be roasting at least the version I had, the 8T Mac, I would not have attempted such a climb with the 8T , perhaps the 12T version. Climbing Mount Leinster on the Bosch was tough though but the difference was cycling up V walking.

Anyway, yes if you want to you can hack the Bosch but get the device that software mods it and not those dongle yokes because your speedo will be all messed up and you would greatly appreciate the Torque sensing system, the device can also put the bike back to stock.

With the software mod you can apply any top assisted speed you like or remove the limit altogether. I don't know the max assisted power , I never modded it myself but I will if I keep it.

I could possibly sell the bike if you made a good enough offer, it's in super condition, battery I can't say but I never stored it at more than 50% charge. It's got about 1000 miles, can't remember exactly, It's a waste having it in the shed really because I can't get out on it much any more. I got it 2nd hand from Germany.

One of the best bikes out there use the Berlin designed and build Brose motors but they are expensive and sadly they as with Bosch only for OEM and no kits available. 120 Nm torque, if you go to the Haibike website you will find them.

[Deleted User]

If I lived in Germany with access to so many Bike trails through towns, villages and forest I would never be home, I'd pack the lads up in a trailer and toe them behind me, but sadly we don't have such luxuries in Ireland and it's a crying shame. The closest thing to me is the new cycle trail in waterford, that's about 80 Kms away and it's not even that long, in Germany they're everywhere, at least everywhere I've been.

Unfortunately the Irish Countryside is no place to have small kids on bike, funny that , you'd think it would be the best place for them !!!

unkel

Did you do the greenway? Surely that's near enough to where you are? That should be as safe as it gets.

[Deleted User]

unkel wrote: »

Did you do the greenway? Surely that's near enough to where you are? That should be as safe as it gets.

IF you call 92 kms close to get to the nearest proper cycle lane

..............

But yeah I must do it, can rent leccy bikes and kid trailers too.

nokiatom

just wondering where i could get a controller like the one in the photo. The bike is a good few years old and was made by Kenbay. Model of the bike is Wilde. I know nothing about electrics so im asking here

unkel

Looks like a bog standard 36V controller for a 500W motor. Just like mine. You need to carefully compare the connectors on your controller with one you might buy from the likes of eBay, to make sure it is a click in replacement for your one, but a standard controller is about €35

Like this

[Deleted User]

nokiatom wrote: »

just wondering where i could get a controller like the one in the photo. The bike is a good few years old and was made by Kenbay. Model of the bike is Wilde. I know nothing about electrics so im asking here

What's wrong with it, how do you know it's the controller ?

The controllers I used were made by Infineon.

Should be able to get them on ebay or em3ev.com

You may have to do some re-wiring or get the compatible throttle at least, the rest should be easy enough, the 3 phase wires and hall sensors for the motor, but they might not match up pin for pin.

Sometimes even the 3 phases might not match up even if the correct colours are connected and might mean you have to try a different config.

You could have a blown hall sensor in the motor either which will cause the motor not to work at all or run very rough or only run when the bike is moving.

You can get a sensorless controller too if the hall sensors are fried, but the motor will usually only turn when the bike is moving.

If you are handy with a soldering iron the hall sensors are not difficult to replace, usually just 3 small transistors.

First you need to know what the problem is or at least describe as best you can.

nokiatom

when i turn on the display the lights flash for a split second and go off again. battery is charged. someone suggested it could be the controller

[Deleted User]

nokiatom wrote: »

when i turn on the display the lights flash for a split second and go off again. battery is charged. someone suggested it could be the controller

It could be the controller, make sure there isn't an issue with the battery. Check he voltage out with a multimeter if u can , if you don't have one get one , they're cheap and go from there.