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Recommend electric folding scooter for end of commute (Mod Note Post #1)

goz83

Mod Note: I've discussed with site admins, due to the current legal situation recommendations cannot be made for use of electric scooters on public roads in Ireland, but can be made for use on private property. However, we will allow discussion of e-scooters for purchase for use on private property, and other jurisdictions such as France/Germany where they are legal for use. This restriction will be lifted as soon as the legal situation changes, which will hopefully be soon.

I was thinking of getting one of those xiaomi m365 folding scooters to cover the last 5 kilometres of the journey as I come into the city and traffic gets mad. I am looking for peoples experiences with them.

I understand they are in a bit of a legal grey area, but you need to push this scooter to get going, so technically it doesn’t operate on mechanical power alone which is what the rsa site mentions as the definition of an mpv.

I’ll be travelling about 15km each way from urban to city. Due to a back injury, I can’t spend an hour stuck in traffic twice per day. I can’t tolerate public transport and it would be much more expensive (over €100 per month, compared to about €5 per month in my Leaf and m365).

So, my plan would be to drive about 10km and park the car before hitting the city centre. Parking would be free as I would be well outside the cc. I would then scoot the rest of the way to my destination and do the reverse on my return journey. I wouldn’t be stuck in traffic for too long and the range of the scooter should easily cover the return journey without destination charging. The scooter will cost around €400 to buy and claims 30km per charge...I am expecting 15.

What do you think?

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antodeco

Mine won't go about 25kmh. I've seen ones capable of alot faster. That woman in the N4 (who I regularly see going through town) is an idiot. This is why regulation is needed. Limit the speed. Limit where you can use (within reason).

I tried getting insurance and couldn't get any. I also contactes motor tax about getting it taxed and no joy.

...Ghost...

pablo128 wrote: »

There was an idiot woman driving along the N4 in the bus lane on one of these scooters the other day. You can blame morons like this for the scooters not getting approved.

What was the woman doing?

Do cyclists use the N4?

ED E

...Ghost... wrote: »

Do cyclists use the N4?

Only brave souls do, for the short stretch before the Lucan turn.

ED E

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Enough to cause a fatal injury without doubt. It's the speed and weight of the rider and machine that'd impacting potentially.

The difference between eBikes (25KG), trad bikes (10KG) and eScooters (12KG) doesnt really matter, when the rider is say 60-100KG its proportionally a very small part of the momentum they have upon collision.

pablo128

...Ghost... wrote: »

What was the woman doing?

Do cyclists use the N4?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thesun.ie/news/4363418/shocking-footage-electric-scooter-dublin-dual-carriageway/amp&ved=2ahUKEwjWyr3VkNPjAhVRURUIHWFHDiEQFjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw3i12i46l8KiaRyjcx_Ho4A&ampcf=1

Have a look yourself. She was in the driving lane until she was beeped out of it according to the article.

AhHaor

I have no idea the point of that piece. Bikes regularly do that. Are they saying she was going too slowly, quickly or just that its illegal? Someone in a recumbent is far more of a risk. I accept these are illegal but I have no idea what the issue with them is. most users would pay a tax and insurance. And it would be made more palatable by getting cyclists do same

beauf

AhHaor wrote: »

I... And it would be made more palatable by getting cyclists do same...

Considering it didn't work anywhere that was tried is there a reason you want to spend Millions repeating that failure.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/road-safety/news/germany-to-unleash-e-scooters-on-streets/

AhHaor

beauf wrote: »

Considering it didn't work anywhere that was tried is there a reason you want to spend Millions repeating that failure.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/road-safety/news/germany-to-unleash-e-scooters-on-streets/

I was only approaching it from an Irish point of view. We seem to have an inability to be adults about tricky situations.

I was thinking from my point of view and if I was told 50 euro would make the scooter unequivocally legal then I'd happily pay. Tho I've also waved at Guards on the scooter and got a wave back.

beauf

That's looking at all the experience from other countries and Ireland historic tax evasion ......and ignoring every bit of it.

We have a rate of cycling fines of something like 2 or 3 per day for the entire country. That's assuming those figures aren't vastly inflated as they usually are.

Entirely pointless bringing in new laws when we ignore the existing ones.

beauf

At the end of the day the aim is to reduce car use. Not force alterative forms of transport off the road.

prinzeugen

ED E wrote: »

The difference between eBikes (25KG), trad bikes (10KG) and eScooters (12KG) doesnt really matter, when the rider is say 60-100KG its proportionally a very small part of the momentum they have upon collision.

Sorry but the weight means nothing.

I was a pro 2 wheel person until I witnessed a OAP getting taken out by a cyclist that had broken a red traffic light. I tried to help her (78 and now with a broken hip) and the cyclist fecked off. (Got me going down the first aid path, so it was life changing for both of us).

A small collision can cause major injury. A small fall can break fingers. wrists etc.

A bag of cement weighs about 25Kg. Go to a garden centre and a bag of stone is 25 kg, big bags of compost 25kg.

If you think that pedestrians will be uninjured by an impact with that weight, please PM me so we can test it on you.

fergus1001

was over in Brisbane they have a app called lime where you can pick up a scooter from anywhere and drop it off wherever you want, the best part is that certain streets are geo fenced so the scooter only goes 8kmh in those zones

very good for tourists cost me 20 dollars to tour the whole city in my own time

Lumen

prinzeugen wrote: »

Sorry but the weight means nothing.
...
If you think that pedestrians will be uninjured by an impact with that weight, please PM me so we can test it on you.

That's what ED E was saying. You appear to be disagreeing with someone who agrees with you, and making some kind of weird physical threat.

As far as "pro 2 wheels" or not, getting hit by 100kg on 2 wheels is much preferable to 2000kg on 4 wheels, but it's not the number of wheels that count, it's the person controlling them.

ted1

prinzeugen wrote: »

Sorry but the weight means nothing.

I was a pro 2 wheel person until I witnessed a OAP getting taken out by a cyclist that had broken a red traffic light. I tried to help her (78 and now with a broken hip) and the cyclist fecked off. (Got me going down the first aid path, so it was life changing for both of us).

A small collision can cause major injury. A small fall can break fingers. wrists etc.

A bag of cement weighs about 25Kg. Go to a garden centre and a bag of stone is 25 kg, big bags of compost 25kg.

If you think that pedestrians will be uninjured by an impact with that weight, please PM me so we can test it on you.

Weight means a lot as does momentum. A car hitting a wall at 20kmh will go through it. A cyclist would bounce off it.

pablo128

beauf wrote: »

At the end of the day the aim is to reduce car use. Not force alterative forms of transport off the road.

This isn't the cycling forum.

beauf

prinzeugen wrote: »

Sorry but the weight means nothing...I was a pro 2 wheel person until I witnessed a OAP getting taken out by a cyclist that had broken a red traffic light. .....

I don't get this. If I saw someone jay walking cause an accident, should I then become anti walking?

Scooters should be Treated the same as eBikes it's not complicated.

beauf

pablo128 wrote: »

This isn't the cycling forum.

....and..?

Lumen

beauf wrote: »

Scooters should be Treated the same as eBikes it's not complicated.

They can't be treated the same because the e-bikes are assisted and you can't make an assisted scooter of any conventional design that would go faster than slow jogging pace, on account of legs having no gears.

We don't have any legislation that deals with vehicles of this sort that are entirely propelled by a motor, apart presumably from mobility scooters which are presumably type approved.

weldoninhio

fergus1001 wrote: »

was over in Brisbane they have a app called lime where you can pick up a scooter from anywhere and drop it off wherever you want, the best part is that certain streets are geo fenced so the scooter only goes 8kmh in those zones

very good for tourists cost me 20 dollars to tour the whole city in my own time

They have the same in Wroclaw Poland. Great way to get around. Fun too.

...Ghost...

pablo128 wrote: »

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thesun.ie/news/4363418/shocking-footage-electric-scooter-dublin-dual-carriageway/amp&ved=2ahUKEwjWyr3VkNPjAhVRURUIHWFHDiEQFjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw3i12i46l8KiaRyjcx_Ho4A&ampcf=1

Have a look yourself. She was in the driving lane until she was beeped out of it according to the article.

Thanks for the link. If she was not originally in the bus lane, then she is an idiot.

The bigger idiot is the person who filmed it. He was obviously driving while filming and he was a far greater danger than the woman on the scooter. He should be given penalty points and a fine.

beauf

Lumen wrote: »

They can't be treated the same because the e-bikes are assisted and you can't make an assisted scooter of any conventional design that would go faster than slow jogging pace, on account of legs having no gears.

We don't have any legislation that deals with vehicles of this sort that are entirely propelled by a motor, apart presumably from mobility scooters which are presumably type approved.

Seriously....:rolleyes:

#1 actually yes you can. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QvtcLe4vGc

#2 You don't need to copy ebike legislation verbatim, and allow unassisted scooters to 25kph in cycle lanes. As lots of other places have done.

Lumen

beauf wrote: »

Seriously....:rolleyes:

#1 actually yes you can. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QvtcLe4vGc

#2 You don't need to copy ebike legislation verbatim, and allow unassisted scooters to 25kph in cycle lanes. As lots of other places have done.

That's not assistance in the same way that ebikes are assisted, the boost lasts for 10 seconds!

I'm not arguing about new legislation on a different basis, I'm countering the argument that e-scooters and ebikes can be treated the same.

The top speed is only one factor.

beauf

You're just being pedantic. In a non powered scooter you don't kick constantly. You coast for lots of it.

We can look at other countries and legislate similarly. Generally they are very similar laws to those of ebikes.

Lumen

beauf wrote: »

You're just being pedantic. In a non powered scooter you don't kick constantly. You coast for lots of it.

That's an interesting point.

Limpy

Warsaw has loads of them. It's very noticeable now when you go to the city. It was mostly young people on them but I seen some older using them to. The good thing is they are not noisy.

You could have loads of people in Ireland using them to go to work and wouldn't hear a thing.

ted1

Limpy wrote: »

Warsaw has loads of them. It's very noticeable now when you go to the city. It was mostly young people on them but I seen some older using them to. The good thing is they are not noisy.

You could have loads of people in Ireland using them to go to work and wouldn't hear a thing.

Malaga has them and they are a complete hazard.

McGiver

weldoninhio wrote:

They have the same in Wroclaw Poland. Great way to get around. Fun too.

Same in Prague. It's All over major European cities.

prinzeugen

Lumen wrote: »

They can't be treated the same because the e-bikes are assisted and you can't make an assisted scooter of any conventional design that would go faster than slow jogging pace, on account of legs having no gears.

We don't have any legislation that deals with vehicles of this sort that are entirely propelled by a motor, apart presumably from mobility scooters which are presumably type approved.

I agree that they cannot be classed the same as assisted bikes. They are two entirely different types of vehicle.

They are covered by legislation. They are MPVs under the RTA. They are treated exactly the same as a motorbike at the moment.

The problem with making these legal is that you may open up loopholes that could cover other types of powered two wheel vehicles (electric mopeds, motorbikes etc).

Mobility scooters are classed as invalid carriages and are not covered by domestic road traffic law except from being banned on motorways (as far as I am aware).

They would be EU type approved as invalid carriages not road vehicles.

beauf wrote: »

You're just being pedantic. In a non powered scooter you don't kick constantly. You coast for lots of it.
.

They are toys though. The minute a motor goes in it it becomes a MPV. While they may look similar, they are two very different types of scooter legally.

beauf

We know the law it needs to change.

It's not a problem it's what we want. Electric scooters, mopeds, motorbikes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-than-half-of-travellers-use-cars-for-journeys-under-2km-1.2303451%3fmode=amp

Lumen

Lights is an issue. The law w.r.t. lights on bicycles is ancient and compromised by the reliance on small self-contained (in the light) batteries. e-bikes managed to get away without any special lighting regs as they are piggybacking on the antiquated bicycle regs.

In a powered vehicle it makes sense to require decent permanently wired lights as part of the type approval.

But it's not obvious to me how scooters should be lit at the rear. Is lighting near ground level acceptable from a visibility perspective? Maybe with modern leds, bathing the ground in a pool of light actually helps?