How hard is it to get the rolex you want

Cienciano wrote: »

Imagine that 911 was going for double the normal retail value and people were still queuing up to buy them.

The idea of buying one now is crazy imho. I can see why retailers are doing what they're doing, they have bills to pay.

911 GT can’t be bought unless you have previous history with the dealer I’ve read online

Cienciano

Dante Delicious Magnum wrote: »

yeah....I get that and its a real shame. I love Rolex, I love the watches and classic timeless designs. They are the Porsche 911 of the car world. You simply cannot go wrong.

Imagine that 911 was going for double the normal retail value and people were still queuing up to buy them.

The idea of buying one now is crazy imho. I can see why retailers are doing what they're doing, they have bills to pay.

Dante Delicious Magnum wrote: »

yeah....I get that and its a real shame. I love Rolex, I love the watches and classic timeless designs. They are the Porsche 911 of the car world. You simply cannot go wrong.

I have strong thoughts on watch collecting especially in this "mid tier" level. I think that spending 12k or 20k or 8k on a watch is a lot of money, and I certainly am not going to grovel or interview with to some pointy shoes salesman who has never had that much cash in their bank account at one time. What I expect is this

Me : "I want a GMT2 Pepsi please"
Salesman : "OK sir, that is a very popular watch, we have a waiting list for that, At the moment the wait time is 12 months. Please leave a 2 grand non transferable deposit and your name will be put on the list number 54 and we will call you as soon as it is in"
Me: "Thats a long wait, but that sounds fair, here take my money"
Salesman "in the mean time Sir can I interest you in this Tudor......."

Instead what happens is that we all bicker and vie for favour with the AD. The AD treat us like an endless stream of suckers. Lads get perfectly nice but perfectly standard models and think they have won the lottery. Lads that have saught after or expensive models feel depressed that they are not getting offered the latest and greatest at list by the AD, they are cross that they can be very loyal to Rolex but unless they are loyal to a specific AD thats no good. The AD can now ring you and tell you you can have what was classically a dog of the range and you will jump for joy at the privilege.

People on the outside think that Rolex fanboi's are gullable and stupid...which is somewhat understandable and somewhat takes the shine off such a purchase.

Totally agree but as others said it’s AD,s using their leverage to sell less desirable products. I had a sub date on the wrist in an AD in Tenerife in 2016 and could have got an 8% discount to boot. Didn’t have the cash in the bank would have had to use credit card and payback. I have the cash now but I don’t feel bad about spending a bit extra on the wife as I still spent less than if I went grey market plus it’s my name on the card(which is important to me sorry Cyrus)

It’ll be a brave new world for AD’s when the next recession rolls around. I for hope to use said recession to drive the advantage in my direction.

The general principles of buying and selling go out the window with certain luxury goods. The customer fighting for the right to buy being one. That's generally in play to help with the rarity idea, but at the moment with the recent demand for Rolex gone mainstream it's gone a bit nuts.

fret_wimp2

Dante Delicious Magnum wrote: »

I certainly am not going to grovel or interview with to some pointy shoes salesman who has never had that much cash in their bank account at one time.
.

Wow.

whats in the sales mans account is irrelevant.
If you think this deeply about all the sales people you deal with, how do you buy anything?

I get what the sales guy is doing, he's leveraging his position of relative power in this situation to make extra sales/profits/commission. Making hay and all that. Its annoying, but i can see the angle.
If he has a product that is not desirable, we are all not rushing in to offer list price for it, he has to take a hit.

But his bank balance has as much to do with his as the price of turnips in china, or however the saying goes.

Always Tired wrote: »

A few posts here seem to lend credence to the 'rolex are for douches' maxim

yeah....I get that and its a real shame. I love Rolex, I love the watches and classic timeless designs. They are the Porsche 911 of the car world. You simply cannot go wrong.

I have strong thoughts on watch collecting especially in this "mid tier" level. I think that spending 12k or 20k or 8k on a watch is a lot of money, and I certainly am not going to grovel or interview with to some pointy shoes salesman who has never had that much cash in their bank account at one time. What I expect is this

Me : "I want a GMT2 Pepsi please"
Salesman : "OK sir, that is a very popular watch, we have a waiting list for that, At the moment the wait time is 12 months. Please leave a 2 grand non transferable deposit and your name will be put on the list number 54 and we will call you as soon as it is in"
Me: "Thats a long wait, but that sounds fair, here take my money"
Salesman "in the mean time Sir can I interest you in this Tudor......."

Instead what happens is that we all bicker and vie for favour with the AD. The AD treat us like an endless stream of suckers. Lads get perfectly nice but perfectly standard models and think they have won the lottery. Lads that have saught after or expensive models feel depressed that they are not getting offered the latest and greatest at list by the AD, they are cross that they can be very loyal to Rolex but unless they are loyal to a specific AD thats no good. The AD can now ring you and tell you you can have what was classically a dog of the range and you will jump for joy at the privilege.

People on the outside think that Rolex fanboi's are gullable and stupid...which is somewhat understandable and somewhat takes the shine off such a purchase.

2shea

The AD where I bought my 214270 in 2018,

Have told me they can get me a 2019 Sub no date, brand new in 6~10 weeks

Very happy about that.

Always Tired

A few posts here seem to lend credence to the 'rolex are for douches' maxim

893bet

Dante Delicious Magnum wrote: »

I want is that I can get off this flipping Rolex train and buy some "interesting" watches.

This.

I profited recently from the madness (covered some of my losses over the last few years)....But I would much prefer to have been just able to get my money back or lose a little even.....and be able to walk into a shop and pick up another one with having to try and flirt with the salesperson or build a “relationship”. No point selling high if you then have to buy high! The current situation only suits those who can get a steady stream at retail price and sell for profit regularly. Watches are not scarce. Only scarce at retail. Much of the demand is false and will disappear given the right conditions. Global slow down will see a rapid shift when dealers dump stock.

Rolex have I would guess 8 or 9 models trading above retail (2 x blnr, chnr, blro, all steel Daytona, hulk, standard sub, new yaughtmaster, etc). Basel next year will see another one or two.....it can’t continue....it will settle.

I sold as I didn’t really like the watch in the end. I have concluded I don’t really like most of the Rolex “sports” range. The profit was only an added bonus. Looking for smaller, more discrete trinkets to waste invest my hard earned cash.

Cyrus wrote: »

Personally I’m not into massaging the ego of a shop assistant

Interview my backside

Didn’t massage anyone’s ego just talkin watches with them.

Rootsblower wrote: »

Naw don’t want Pepsi,Hulk or Batman all a bit showy for me. I am using Pepsi as an example of price differential between AD and grey and what could be done with that differential.

I really like the BB58 even the fake rivets looks like a vintage sub.

When I went about the sub I’m receiving soon I bought the wife’s bracelet first and there was a lot of watch talk between myself and the sales assistant. About a week later they called and said they would have a sub for me in a month. I commented to them that when we were shooting the breeze about watches(not just Rolex) it felt like an interview they agreed and basically they want to get a feel for the person that they are not just gonna flip the watch.They also want to sell to local customers as in Irish people. They told me that they get constant calls from the U.S,China and India looking for SS Rolex.

Personally I’m not into massaging the ego of a shop assistant

Interview my backside

CantGetNoSleep

How hard is it to get an Explorer II from an AD?

Samsonite 187 wrote: »

Supply seems fine.

If the supply was fine there's be no grey market. The demand has gone up over the last couple of years because of a few factors; increased move of the luxury wristwatch into the mainstream would be one. Sites like Hodinkee would be drivers there, youtube another. Rolex marketing has always been top of the heap, so Rolex as a brand has been the "luxury Swiss watch"(a marketing term itself) most known in the public consciousness for about the last 30 years, so they naturally got the lions share of attention when it went more mainstream.

The grey market relies on the optimism in the market especially when it gets feverish. In the general market the item starts to grow in value beyond the intrinsic(with any luxury good that's kinda outa the gate, but all the big names have raised their prices over the last two decades). The "greater fools" theory holds that in an overly confident and fast growing market you will always find another buyer who will pay more for the item. Then you have the belief in the future investment potential. The idea that prices are rising and always have in the past(they haven't and this time it isn't different), so will continue and you better get in while you can. When that hits a critical mass of participants in the market as more and more head in the one direction the confidence goes through the roof, as does the scramble to buy and the price rises again. Add in the mainstream media noticing the trend, some even taking out loans to buy into the trend(though watch collectors selling off all their other pieces to buy is more in play so far). By the by, that lot above is a near picture perfect uphill part of the curve of an asset bubble...

Oafley Jones

Cyrus wrote: »

The 58 isn’t bad if only they didn’t have those rivets

I wouldn’t bother having one if I already had a sub. Sorry if it offends any one but the Tudor gmt is a shambles and is only sought after because people can’t get a blro .

And if you ask me, the jubilee belongs on the date just , looks wrong on the gmt

Outside of the initial rush, I don't think the GMT is actually moving much at all. BB58 isn't that hard to come by either.

Cyrus wrote: »

I thought you do want a Pepsi ?

I wanted the date just as well just got onto my man at watchfinder and had it in a week . Come to think of it I have built a relationship with them, my hulk , Portuguese and dj41 are all from there and they always give me excellent prices on part exchanges

Naw don’t want Pepsi,Hulk or Batman all a bit showy for me. I am using Pepsi as an example of price differential between AD and grey and what could be done with that differential.

I really like the BB58 even the fake rivets looks like a vintage sub.

When I went about the sub I’m receiving soon I bought the wife’s bracelet first and there was a lot of watch talk between myself and the sales assistant. About a week later they called and said they would have a sub for me in a month. I commented to them that when we were shooting the breeze about watches(not just Rolex) it felt like an interview they agreed and basically they want to get a feel for the person that they are not just gonna flip the watch.They also want to sell to local customers as in Irish people. They told me that they get constant calls from the U.S,China and India looking for SS Rolex.

Samsonite 187

Wibbs wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac: Customers are the cause? Man, hats off to Swiss marketeers that so many people buy into this. The cause is an artificially restricted supply luxury good with artificial prices and truly genius marketing. The grey market only exists because of that.

Man the supply is the same the demand has gone up.

There are 10 batman gmts on watchfinder and over 800 on chrono right now. Supply seems fine.

Two posters here the past few days have offered to sell or have already already sold theirs for 12k.

That is the cause of the grey market.

Dante Delicious Magnum wrote: »

One beauty for me of having the Rolex I want is that I can get off this flipping Rolex train and buy some "interesting" watches.

+1 One of the rules of good financial sense, especially if there's s sniff of a bubble; sell when everyone else is buying, buy when everyone else is selling. Unless of course someone has always wanted Watch A and has put aside the cash and when they get it it'll be their "lifetime" watch to pass on to their kids. That's a different type of chap. If you're in the hobby though and likely to get bored six months after you swear "I'll never get rid of this"

then...

Eoin wrote: »

Maybe in the same way that a Range Rover is no longer the preserve of well off farmers / land owners but more of an aspirational/luxury purchase (and a gravel driveway is as off-road as many get). I assume that most people back then didn't own a racing chronograph or pilot watch either, as they were specific tool watches.

I think it's as likely just a reflection that life is thankfully less formal these days in general.

Oh it's part of it E. I'd say more of it is down to the reinvention of the Swiss mechanical watch as luxury and jewellery for men* and the marketing of them as a nod to a simpler age of authentic manhood.

Dante Delicious Magnum wrote: »

Paul Pluta said in a recent video (he is a genius about 5% of the time) that all watches are dress watches these days. Discuss?????

Kinda F. They always were. Hell, the wristwatch itself was a hard sell to men at first, because it was seen as a jewellery item for women. The vast majority of men's watches sold in the 20th century were dress watches in gold or gold plate and following the fashion of the time. Outside of rare periods like times of war, or actually required for your job, tool watches were the minority of sales and most of them were usually the same dress watches in steel or chrome plate and when times like wars were over the tool watches went into a drawer to make way for another dress watch in gold or gold plate. If you look at photos of pilots in WW2 on any side it's hard enough to find a "pilots watch", many just wore 30's Tank style watches(never mind that it was navigators not pilots who really needed an accurate watch).

The tool watches made more inroads in the 1960's on the back of fans of sports like motor racing and diving. Even then the dress watch was the big seller. EG 60's Rolex Daytonas are rare simply because they made few enough of them because the market wasn't there and you couldn't give them away in the 80's because they didn't really look like a "proper Rolex" and didn't have a Rolex movement. Heuer were close to bankruptcy in the 60's and 70's and couldn't get arrested in markets like the US. When quartz came along it was mad expensive and what did they put the new mad expensive movements into? Not tool watches, dress watches. The first proper divers watch with a quartz movement didn't hit the market until five years after the tech came out. Though I would reckon quartz drove mechanical innovation. Quickset dates for one. Then the digitals came out and swept the world in popularity for over a decade and they were nearly always "tool watches" with loads of functions as the tech improved. Patek "I've got a world time bezel". Casio "Hold my beer"

Since the Swiss revival the dress watch expanded into the tool watch arena, near swallowed it up really. Why? One reason is the sense of "adventure" and the "authentic" attached to a tool watch. No gold wearing namby pamby olf fashioned dandy am I, oh no, I'm the hero of the office, a real man and all that. OK that's crudely wrought

but that's a lot of the marketing angle. Again Rolex were early on that case in the modern era with their 70's adverts of derring do up mountains and under the sea, though very early on they were all at it, trying to sell the "feminine" wristlet to "real men" using images and names of famous automobile drivers and biplane pilots(though again gold cases were the top of the range).

I would always rather spend my budget on something better that has already depreciated than something new. Horses for courses.

+1000. If I were in the sports Rolex market, no way would I be buying now TBH. It's way too feverish a market at the moment in my humble. With a hint of tulips. Gun to my head and I had to buy a new Rolex? I'd go for gold. Probably one of the Cellini range. Always liked them. When the market contracts - and mark me, it will - a hunk of gold has an intrinsic value and over the century of the male wristwatch a slim profile dress watch in gold with a pale face from a good name has been the most consistent fashion trend of all.

Samsonite 187 wrote: »

I really don't mean to come across as a troll or a dick.

But you really are in a situation of your own making.

If you jump from shop to shop and support grey market retailers. Then you are the cause.

:pac::pac::pac: Customers are the cause? Man, hats off to Swiss marketeers that so many people buy into this. The cause is an artificially restricted supply luxury good with artificial prices and truly genius marketing. The grey market only exists because of that.

*majority male. Women's watches weren't really affected by the so called quartz crisis and women never bought into the "mechanical is authentic" marketing the way the male market did. If you look at top end Pateks and Cartier for women mechanical tends to be in the minority and most are quartz. Convenience being a major selling point, especially for jewellery not so often worn.

Samsonite 187 wrote: »

If you buy from the grey market because you can get the not so popular models cheaper than you can at the authorized dealer. The don't complain when a grey dealer is more expensive for a hot watch.

That's the market that's the way it is and you have helped to create it.

I mean there is a guy here that was complaining that he couldn't get an Aquanaut at retail in Ireland. But he has just sold his GMT blue now for profit.

Shops don't what you doing that. That's why they are being so picky with who they sell to.

I have a friend who got engaged at Christmas. Went to his local Jewellers bought a ring for I think for 4k. Put his name down for a Sub date. Got it in 3 months. He had been on a wait list in London for a year and still hasn't heard anything.

He bought a Tudor GMT last week and even got a bit of discount.

Has his name down for a GMT batman told he will have it next year.

They didn't force him to buy anything he didn't want. He wanted those things he went in shot the **** with the sales guy had the bants. And built up a relationship.

Sales guy now knows him. Knows he is a good egg is not flipping his watches. Happy to sell to him.

It's not hard to get these watches at list.

That lad has his priorities right

4K ring and an 8k watch for himself

Samsonite 187

fluffer wrote: »

That's certainly one way to put it, no matter how wrong you are!

I saved many thousands on my various watch purchases over the years. All because I was in a position to shop around.
I got 5 watches from 4 different countries, 2 from ADs, 2 from independents, and 1 from a personal seller. All bar one with my name on the papers.

I thought I was doing the right thing by refusing the excessive grey market prices, and I still do. Buying from them when it makes sense, and not when it doesnt seems the prudent thing to do. After all, my dealers didnt magic those watches into their stock; they were buying them from ADs and I was getting warranties from them.

I have some leverage with a planned purchase of watches and jewellery, I'm back in Europe and I am just trying to be strategic about this and not rush.

My thinking too; but I'll see.

@AmberGold
Thanks, and I appreciate this a solid offer, but I will decline. Best of luck; I'm sure you will get more than that.

Hey dude sorry if that came across as a personal attack. It really wasn't. It was meant as an overall vent. Wasnt having a dig. I have shopped around myself.

But you do have buying power. Pick a dealer that has your two watchs for 7-9k. Buy them from the same guy. Get to know him and I'm sure he will get you a batman at list.

What are the other two you are getting?

banie01

Dante Delicious Magnum wrote: »

Blackbay 58 for sale in weirs to whoever, saw it today no relationship required, one in Applebies too and a Tudor GMT Pepsi (they have IWC, Brightling, Tudor which was news to me?).

I was just about to say pretty much the same thing.
Apart from Rolex there really isn't any other brand that suffers from such a restricted supply it seems.

The vast majority of other premium brands are available at short notice/immediately via most ADs

Samsonite 187

If you buy from the grey market because you can get the not so popular models cheaper than you can at the authorized dealer. The don't complain when a grey dealer is more expensive for a hot watch.

That's the market that's the way it is and you have helped to create it.

I mean there is a guy here that was complaining that he couldn't get an Aquanaut at retail in Ireland. But he has just sold his GMT blue now for profit.

Shops don't what you doing that. That's why they are being so picky with who they sell to.

I have a friend who got engaged at Christmas. Went to his local Jewellers bought a ring for I think for 4k. Put his name down for a Sub date. Got it in 3 months. He had been on a wait list in London for a year and still hasn't heard anything.

He bought a Tudor GMT last week and even got a bit of discount.

Has his name down for a GMT batman told he will have it next year.

They didn't force him to buy anything he didn't want. He wanted those things he went in shot the **** with the sales guy had the bants. And built up a relationship.

Sales guy now knows him. Knows he is a good egg is not flipping his watches. Happy to sell to him.

It's not hard to get these watches at list.

The 58 isn’t bad if only they didn’t have those rivets

I wouldn’t bother having one if I already had a sub. Sorry if it offends any one but the Tudor gmt is a shambles and is only sought after because people can’t get a blro .

And if you ask me, the jubilee belongs on the date just , looks wrong on the gmt

Blackbay 58 for sale in weirs to whoever, saw it today no relationship required, one in Applebies too and a Tudor GMT Pepsi (they have IWC, Brightling, Tudor which was news to me?). Unless its Stainless Rolex or Sports Patek your after all you need is a credit card and a smile on your face. One beauty for me of having the Rolex I want is that I can get off this flipping Rolex train and buy some "interesting" watches.

Rootsblower wrote: »

I have bought my Mrs a nice bracelet recently to build a relationship with an AD, the bracelet was a nice few bob but it’s for her birthday. In return I will be collecting a black sub in the next few weeks, I will post pics when I get it. The total price for watch and bracelet is slightly less than what I would pay a grey reseller on this island for an unworn pre-owned Sub. I now have a relationship with the AD I have my eye on a black bay 58 maybe next year(fantastic watch) I don’t fancy a batman,Pepsi or hulk but I would like a blue dial Datejust on fluted bezel which is really hard to get at the moment so we will see.

I thought you do want a Pepsi ?

I wanted the date just as well just got onto my man at watchfinder and had it in a week . Come to think of it I have built a relationship with them, my hulk , Portuguese and dj41 are all from there and they always give me excellent prices on part exchanges

Rootsblower wrote: »

I would like a 126710BLRO. The cheapest unworn example on Chrono24 is €16775 a full €7825 above retail price.

If I go to an AD and say buy my wife a nice watch or ring or bracelet worth €7825 then I have 2 nice pieces for the same money the result being I’m happy and the wife is happy, what’s irrational about that, granted I’d much rather pay retail and not have to buy anything else but I’d rather pay the extra to an Irish AD than some grey seller in Belgium

The nice watch or ring won’t be ‘worth ‘ 7825 that’s the point

Also spending 8k won’t move the needle in any event , from what I’ve heard buying a gold day date will get you the s/s watch you want which is a false economy unless you really want a day date at retail

Anyway you are missing the point what I said was if the watch is un worn do you really care if your name is on the plastic card that comes with it ?

Edit / what fitzgeme said

I have bought my Mrs a nice bracelet recently to build a relationship with an AD, the bracelet was a nice few bob but it’s for her birthday. In return I will be collecting a black sub in the next few weeks, I will post pics when I get it. The total price for watch and bracelet is slightly less than what I would pay a grey reseller on this island for an unworn pre-owned Sub. I now have a relationship with the AD I have my eye on a black bay 58 maybe next year(fantastic watch) I don’t fancy a batman,Pepsi or hulk but I would like a blue dial Datejust on fluted bezel which is really hard to get at the moment so we will see.

ArphaRima

Samsonite 187 wrote: »

I really don't mean to come across as a troll or a dick.

But you really are in a situation of your own making.

You had good purchasing power. You bought 4 watches. All models an authorized retailer would be happy to sell and negotiate on. You went down the grey market root. Maybe got those watches at a little less.

Now you want a super duper hot watch that the whole wide world and his mother, father, brother and sister wants at retail with out ever purchasing in that shop before!!!!

Seriously??? These shops are getting thousands of emails a week asking the say thing. They literally can pick and choose who they want to sell to.

When you ask can I get a hot watch they are repling you need to build up a relationship they are 100000000% serious.

These Jewellers have thousands of clients that will buy Rolex and Patek. They don't need you. What they want is loyal local clients that buy everything from them.

To build a relationship they are not asking you to spend money on things you dont want to buy. They are saying if you fancy an omega come to us. If you want a breitling come to us. If you are buying an engagement ring come to us. If you want wedding rings come to us. We want to be your one stop Jewellers. Then if you want something hard to get no problem.

If you jump from shop to shop and support grey market retailers. Then you are the cause. Anyone that has given any money to a grey dealer is the cause of the crazy Patek and Rolex prices. If you had spent your money at authorized you would have built a relationship and 100% would be able to get those models.

Just my two cents.

That's certainly one way to put it, no matter how wrong you are!

I saved many thousands on my various watch purchases over the years. All because I was in a position to shop around.
I got 5 watches from 4 different countries, 2 from ADs, 2 from independents, and 1 from a personal seller. All bar one with my name on the papers.

I thought I was doing the right thing by refusing the excessive grey market prices, and I still do. Buying from them when it makes sense, and not when it doesnt seems the prudent thing to do. After all, my dealers didnt magic those watches into their stock; they were buying them from ADs and I was getting warranties from them.

I have some leverage with a planned purchase of watches and jewellery, I'm back in Europe and I am just trying to be strategic about this and not rush.

Personally I’d prefer to buy another watch for my Mrs and have my name on warranty card than buy a grey at a premium.

A couple of 5-10k purchases means you are just a face in the crowd.

My thinking too; but I'll see.

@AmberGold
Thanks, and I appreciate this a solid offer, but I will decline. Best of luck; I'm sure you will get more than that.

Rootsblower wrote: »

I would like a 126710BLRO. The cheapest unworn example on Chrono24 is €16775 a full €7825 above retail price.

If I go to an AD and say buy my wife a nice watch or ring or bracelet worth €7825 then I have 2 nice pieces for the same money the result being I’m happy and the wife is happy, what’s irrational about that, granted I’d much rather pay retail and not have to buy anything else but I’d rather pay the extra to an Irish AD than some grey seller in Belgium

You will have to spend a lot more than €7825 to get that watch. Maybe add a zero on the end of that and they will remember you name. Its not fair but its the way it is. Also that 80k piece of jewellery is only really worth about 50k so its cheaper just pay the premium. Watches like that are a reward for customers that buy high value, high depreciation (read high profit) items.