Probe launched after garda accidentally shoots himself in the foot
AN investigation is underway after a garda attached to specialist firearms unit accidentally shot himself in the foot. <snip>
Heckler wrote: » Can be many reasons for an accidental discharge. Guns are mechanical devices which can fail. Where I shoot the safety is never a given. Guns are unloaded while not on a firing line. Guns are never loaded when holstered. Obviously the Guards have a whole different way of operating. Its hard to see how it happened without negligence but there could be an innocent reason.
Signore Fancy Pants wrote: » You are comparing range safety to an operational environment, two very different scenarios as I know you are aware. Depending on the AGS Unit and duty, their SOP's will dictate their weapon state of readiness. I know in the DF, it is refered to as a Negligent Discharge, never "accidental". These things happen but it is almost always down to weapons handling skills. A mechanical failure suggests the safety catch wasnt working...but an AGS member shouldnt be squeezing the trigger while loaded to check. That is done during the safety precautions prior to loading....if they are doing it right. People can become complacent when regularly handling a weapon, could have had a brain fart or muscle memory from being on the range, discipline goes out the window and a split second later, load...cock...safety...squeeze...theres a 9mm in your foot. Bad lesson to learn. Mechanical failure? Doubt it. User error? Most likely, nobody is perfect but when handling a weapon, you should be. Poor bastard either way.
ED E wrote: » @Heckler I've heard tell from ex DFers of detectives (so not the ARU) coming onto a DF range to practice and being screamed off the range by the DF range officer (not sure what title they get in DF parlance) for waving the muzzle around like a water pistol. Anecdotal, take it as you will.
Signore Fancy Pants wrote: » I know in the DF, it is refered to as a Negligent Discharge, never "accidental". These things happen but it is almost always down to weapons handling skills. A mechanical failure suggests the safety catch wasnt working...but an AGS member shouldnt be squeezing the trigger while loaded to check. That is done during the safety precautions prior to loading....if they are doing it right..
Heckler wrote: » Force Carrier and Phileas Fogg. Seriously. Educate yourselves on firearms. I've been shooting rifle and pistol for years. Yes some pistols don't come with an external safety !!! The Glock one of the most used law enforcement sidearms has none.
Heckler wrote: » The stories I've heard about members of AGS visiting my club with firearms would shock you. eg. a senior detective with a .38 who never loaded or shot it, came to the club and had to be shown how to shoot and unload it. Kept it in the bedside locker. Forgot to bring it with him half the time.
Manic Moran wrote: » You partially contradict yourself. Or at least, DF policy, the latter of which is a bit narrow. It is possible to have an accidental discharge without any failure of weapons handling skills at all. For example, the M4 carbine used by the US Army suffered a rash of slamfires a while back. The mere act of chambering a round would discharge it, as the firing pin could have sufficient momentum to strike the primer. The P226, if that’s what it was, is a well regarded sidearm, but it’s also a little old. I don’t know if you’ve handled well-used firearms, but when they get old and worn, anything can happen. The 1911s were known for rattling by the time they had been removed from service, I seem to recall the Irish BAPs had a similar problem. Still, I agree with your last statement on the balance of probabilities. Unless a rare mechanical defect can be ruled in, negligence is most likely.
KevRossi wrote: » He'll get €100,000 compo oir that in a couple of years time, somehow it will be the fault of the State/taxpayer.
Manic Moran wrote: » Technically it is an option. The glocks delivered for the new US Army trials had one, and the ones delivered to the Portuguese or Thai police forces had one equipped, as examples.https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/06/27/glock-19-mhs-23-mhs-photos/https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/11/02/a-closer-look-at-the-glock-thumb-safety/ I agree that it is all but pointless, and more a liability in a service weapon, but the lawyers and risk averse don’t, and they are often the ones drawing up the tender requirements.
Force Carrier wrote: » Are you The Chieftain?
Signore Fancy Pants wrote: » I havent heard of an instance in the DF where a mechanical failure resulted in a discharge, however, Im not an Artificer so it is very possible but I have never heard of it. I suppose the exception would be the Gustav which you used in the past or a runaway belt on a GPMG, but its straying off the point. I have used the 226 and have had no issues. Is this a common issue for the 226?
