ToBeFrank123 wrote: » If they don't play to adulthood and if they don't support Dublin or other teams in Croke Park then its money wasted which other counties could do with. Anytime I've been in Croker when the Dubs are playing you'd struggle to see a non national face. They just aren't participating at a serious level save on the fringes at underage level. And throwing more millions at it won't help. There's little or no interest in the non national community in Dublin football.
blanch152 wrote: » ToBeFrank123 wrote: » If they don't play to adulthood and if they don't support Dublin or other teams in Croke Park then its money wasted which other counties could do with. Anytime I've been in Croker when the Dubs are playing you'd struggle to see a non national face. They just aren't participating at a serious level save on the fringes at underage level. And throwing more millions at it won't help. There's little or no interest in the non national community in Dublin football. It is money wasted if your only objective is the winning of All-Irelands. If your objective is to increase juvenile participation in our national games for cultural and health reasons, then it is money well spent.
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » If only every county had a Taoiseach like this.https://www.thesun.ie/sport/gaa-football/3191859/bertie-ahern-government-grants-saved-dublin-gaa/ The b0llix took taxpayers money and diverted it to Dublin GAA. As dodgy a deal as he ever did. Dublin had won an AI just 7 years before btw.
blanch152 wrote: » Over the last sixty years, can you guess when the three lowest attendances at All-Ireland finals occurred? The lowest was 1994 for Down's win, but the next two lowest were Kerry's four-in-a-row and Kerry's attempt at a five-in-a-row.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_All-Ireland_Senior_Football_Championship_finals#Finals This happens whenever a great team comes along. Dublin attendances have actually held up well compared to great teams of the past.
GalwayMark wrote: » did u see recently they hired the ex-IRFU head of sport science how can other counties compete on level playing field anyone?
threeball wrote: » The only place the money trail leads to is the step up from minor to senior. Dublin are generally no-where to be found at underage bar the odd time popping up in a leinster final or all ireland semi. However they miraculously are extremely successful at u21 (now u20) over the last decade and are again in the mix this year. The very age where money and sports science combine to propel athletes to another level when compared to athletes with a much lower level of funding. This creates the constant conveyor belt that dublin has generated since funding began. Athletes with the same conditioning as a seasoned IC player appear into the team seemlessly with no period of transition. Ordinary players look at their ease while the more gifted are untouchable.
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » Dublin do indeed have a bigger population than everyone else. County Dublin has 2.5 times the population of County Cork. Between 2007 and 2018 County Dublin received 15 times the games development funding of Cork from the GAA. In reality County Dublin should have received 2.5 times the GDF of Cork. County Dublin has 10 times the population of County Mayo. Between 2007 and 2018, Dublin received close to 30 times the GDF of Co. Mayo.
kilns wrote: » Just for clarity and to provide accurate figures, funding is for games development so it is fair to use the population from 18 years and under as I am sure you agree these funds would not be aimed at men and women in their 40s/50s/60s etc, in this case. Dublin has 4.5 times the number of children as Cork and 8.9 times the number of Mayo and yes Dublin has received central funding for games development far in excess of those other two counties but none from the Leinster council and no coaches, Cork and Mayo have received amounts from their provincial councils for games development also and receive coaching resources also. Would you care to add those factors in to give a more accurate figure? Yes no doubt Dublin still would have received per head of child. But people are asking for a more even playing field, so for example take the latest figures released for 2018, do you know what they are per head of child? Would it surprise you that Dublin are mid table from the 2018 allocations (not including provincial allocations)? Does that not make you happy that it is becoming more evenly distributed?
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » The damage is long done. Even if Dublin came back into line. Did you also factor in Dublin's sports grants and sponsorship money? 4.5 times the number of children yet 15 times the GDF...wow that's fair. 8.9 times in the case of Mayo but almost 30 times the GDF. Nope, you haven't made the case Dublin deserved massively more money than everyone else. The main reason they got it is because Bertie was tired of turning up at Croker to watch the Dubs lose, and also because he was trying to buy Dublin votes. His solution to every problem was throw millions and billions at it and let someone else pick up the tab.
kilns wrote: » So my question is what would rectify the situation for you? Ok you make silly arguments about Bertie tired of turning up watching them lose etc etc, so I will skip by that and I presume you dont live in Dublin. You do know in the 90s the GAA was dying in Dublin, if nothing was done it would be a tiny minority sport in the city now. The Dublin county board knew this and had to act and so they put forward the strategic plan but yes they needed money and yes they got it and was it fair to other counties, probably not no, but it was needed and I am sure as much as guys like you hate Dublin, the GAA needs Dublin and something dramatic needed to be done. It has been a huge success with huge increases in participation in children, they success of the football team has helped too to increase the interest in the game. Dublin is a huge battleground for hearts and minds with so many other groups and interests vying for their attention too, yes rural Ireland would have other sports in their town but not on the same scale. Dublin has been a success and it is only a pity it has not been able to be implemented throughout the country but there are different needs in different counties and different politics too in different counties - for example it has to be asked why did two big Kildare clubs in big towns refuse an extra GDA coach each to be assigned specifically to their club? and there will always be an imbalance (which was always there) due to population. As I said the 2018, 2017 and 2016 figures show a reallignment of the balance but now the other urban centres need to be addressed firstly I think. But I will revert to my question to you, what in your mind could the GAA do now to rectify it for you?
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » I'm sorry, this is absolute horse manure. From 1992 - 1995, Dublin competed in 3 All Ireland finals, winning 1 and should have won at least another. Looking forward to seeing how you can spin that as "dying". In the early 90s they went toe to toe for 4 games with a Meath team widely regarded as one of the best of all time. They lost the fourth game to a last minute free. All 4 games were sell outs. The most recent Dublin v Meath Leinster final attracted 47,000.
kilns wrote: » Ok so basically you know nothing about the on the ground Dublin GAA scene and are basing it on the senior football team in the 90s with players who were born the mid to early 70s. But lets take your argument, after 1995 it took them 16 years to even reach an All Ireland final, should according to your argument should that now highlight there was something wrong for a county with such a huge population advantage to the others? Again can you answer my question what would the GAA have to do to rectify the situation for you?
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » Its actually too late to rectify the situation. The whole situation is a mess of Berties and the GAAs making. It would take decades of redistribution of funds and GDOs to other counties starting with Meath and Kildare and other Leinster counties to begin to solve it. Who gives a damn how often Dublin reach an AI final. You've readily admitted because Dublin weren't reaching finals often enough, the financial rules were changed by the GAA to make sure they reached finals more often. If that isn't doping, I don't know what is.
kilns wrote: » So you are arguing something and you dont even want to offer up a solution? Decades to reverse?`If you gauge everything in success terms, how come Dublin have not totally dominated at under age level with most recently Kildare winning the Leinster under 20s. Or how would you deem the situation resolved? Oh my god seriously? I didnt say the GAA changed the rules so Dublin could reach more finals that was your argument and I was using it against you. As I told you previously the GAA at grassroots in Dublin was on its knees and strategic review was put in place to save it and it was implemented with great success as evident by increased participation numbers Dublin have had their greatest group of players ever over the course of the last 10 years and success at senior level as come based on that, guys like Cluxton, Connolly etc are one offs. Just like Mayo probably have had their greatest group of players in the last 10 years too but unfortunately for them they just werent good enough and are now over the hill. Dublin will reach that point too with alot of their important players but due to sheer population advantage and a great manager in Gavin they will stay very relevant each year
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » I offered up a solution. Because you didn't like it, you just ignored it. A bit like John Horan and the GAA. They know the problem and the solution. Significant redistribution of funds and if anything give more to counties who were underfunded in the past so it will help them improve in a shorter time. That's a summary of the solution. The practicalities would be more complex though. It would ensure in the long term financial fair play at all levels and ensuring every child in the country has regular access to GDOs, and not just the wealthy clubs in Dublin. So an even distribution of GDOs. The Golden Generation myth has been exploded re Dublin. Not a single forward from 2011 started in the Leinster final this year and only 5 players started both games in total. Connolly is a peripheral figure at this stage as is McManamon.
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » I offered up a solution. Because you didn't like it, you just ignored it. A bit like John Horan and the GAA. They know the problem and the solution. Significant redistribution of funds and if anything give more to counties who were underfunded in the past so it will help them improve in a shorter time. That's a summary of the solution. The practicalities would be more complex though. It would ensure in the long term financial fair play at all levels and ensuring every child in the country has regular access to GDOs, and not just the wealthy clubs in Dublin. So an even distribution of GDOs. The Golden Generation myth has been exploded re Dublin. Not a single forward from 2011 played in the Leinster final this year and only 5 players played in total. Connolly is a peripheral figure at this stage.
RoyalCelt wrote: » This makes me sick to the stomach. If I knew this was happening back in 2005 as a teenager and if I knew where it would lead to I we would have saved a fortune. All these years I've been giving the GAA my hard earned cash for Dublin meath matches when in reality I was just finding the Dubs.
Between them, Bailey and Ahern hatched a plan. It involved ring-fencing €1 million a year of State funding for coaching and player development in the capital. Each club which met strict criteria would be provided €25,000 of the €45,000 needed to hire a full time coach, with the rest of the money raised by the clubs themselves. In order to avail of funding, the clubs linked in with the local schools, sharing their coach with their new partners. By 2001, the grants aimed at increasing grassroots participation were allocated through the Irish Sports Council, with the backing of the GAA.
fly_agaric wrote: » It's an interesting article (to me, because I posted wondering about the Bertie conspiracy ToBeFrank123 was ranting about in his posts) but I think you may have misread. The article states it was government (i.e. taxpayer) grant money that was earmarked for GAA in Dublin, not fundraising (gate receipts etc??) by the GAA. edit: So your tax if that makes it feel better! The GAA has no god given right to such government sports grant money to distribute as it sees fit afterwards IMO.
Fann Linn wrote: » The govt gave and continues to give tax payers money to sports clubs eg golf, soccer, rugby, hockey, even Enda Kenny's local cycling club got money. Perhaps ye should write to Leo and Paschal and tell them to ditch these grants.
RoyalCelt wrote: » Watch bertie here at the Dublin westmeath match in 2004. You can pinpoint the exact moment he decides to pump millions into Dublin GAA. https://youtu.be/JC_r-2MFh4k
RoyalCelt wrote: » Why can't Dublin spend some of their millions funding them? Why do the GAA need to pay 50%? Dublins GAA accounts show they have a big surplus every year so they clearly have the excess funds to do so. The GAA are bent over backwards for the Dubs the past 20 years. I wouldn't split Dublin in 4 but it will have to be in 2. I also wouldn't split Dublin now while they're creating history. I'd let them do 10 or 11 in a row and see if they can catch Kerry's Sam total. But it will have to happen. We could have a situation in 100 years where 50% of the population is in Dublin. It's not 1888 anymore. It could take 20 years to normalise North and South Dublin and maybe an AI win for each to get the fans fully behind it but when it becomes tradition it will be the GAA's biggest asset. The biggest Derby in Ireland and it would really capture the imagination of the capital. No more 30k/40k fans turning up for big games. You'd also like to think North and South Dublin won't continue to steam roll everybody, especially in Leinster because otherwise we're ****ed. I can't see Dublin split more then two working. You'd imagine with Meath and Kildares populations continuing to grow they could compete most years with Dublin North or South.
Beechwoodspark wrote: » It’s clear that Congress is the route to take to change the crazy situation that has developed. Delegates need to get their house in order pre congress to be effective on this.
kilns wrote: » Your solution is the redistribution of funds?, which has begun as according for example to 2018 figures is fairly even across the board, do you deem that fair? The wealthy clubs in Dublin do not have exclusive rights to GDOs there are poor clubs too who get access to them as well as plenty of clubs around the country and yes there needs to be more. But for example can you explain why 2 big clubs in Kildare refused to received an extra GDO each for their club? Is that Dublins fault too? Yet in that same All Ireland final Dublin used 19 players and 11 are still are in the squad and then 2 years later in the final against Mayo in 2013, Dublin used 20 players 17 of those are still in the squad, including the core group who brought them the success over the years and shows how reliant they are on that group and as I said yes because of population and great management they will be relevant and have new players but will never not be as dominant, I personally think they will win this year but that could be it for another 2 or 3 years
robbiezero wrote: » They aren't in any way reliant on that group at this present moment, bar maybe Cluxton.
kilns wrote: » From the players used in the All Ireland final of 2013 (6 years ago) the following 17 players are still in the squad Cluxton McMahon OCarroll Cooper McCarthy McCaffrey McAuley OSullivan Kilkenny Connolly Mannion Andrews Brogan OGara Daly Rock McMenamon I think they are still reliant on more than Cluxton out of this group no?
robbiezero wrote: » None of them that if they were without, they wouldn't still win the AI. McCaffrey took a year out seamlessly. Can afford to lose Connolly one of the best footballers in the country this decade. No one that they can't or won't replace in the coming years. Not using the Brogans, Andrews, McMenamon, O'Carroll, Brennan, Connolly and still being utterly dominant would highlight to me that the Dubs are going nowhere, and unless another team can get up to their mark they could win the next 5 All-Irelands. They only need to add 1 or 2 players a year to keep the team refreshed and from the look of the u20s, that should be no problem.
