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Shannon Airport Thread [Mod Warning in First Post]

Clareman

This thread is to discuss all things Shannon Airport related.

Warning, any back biting, regional nonsense, trolling, baiting or back seat modding will lead to bans.

It's also important to remember than that this thread is in a regional forum, not the Aviation forum, if you want to get into details on Aviation, go to that forum. Finally, this is the Clare forum, there will be a bias towards Clare in here, so expect folk to want to defend their county .

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LXFlyer

Balf wrote: »

I would have thought this was a call for the crew to make.

Airlines will, if time allows, generally divert to airports that they already serve, given that they will have handling operations that are familiar with their requirements.

Balf

I have to say, I don't really get this comment.

https://www.clareecho.ie/shannon-airports-lack-of-marketing-during-irish-open-an-incredible-failure/

Responding to the views expressed, Ms Considine revealed “We would love to have done marketing around The Irish Open but our budgets didn’t allow that”. She added, “We are a commercial business and we have to cut our cloth to measure”.

I do get that this was delivered to a political gathering.

But is the point not that investment in marketing is meant to deliver a commercial return? Is she saying that she'd expect no commercial return?

In any event, isn't the Irish Open sponsored by Dubai Duty Free? Would Dubai sponsor the event, and then expect it to be a marketing platform for another airport?

Clareman

Balf wrote: »

I have to say, I don't really get this comment.I do get that this was delivered to a political gathering.

But is the point not that investment in marketing is meant to deliver a commercial return? Is she saying that she'd expect no commercial return?

In any event, isn't the Irish Open sponsored by Dubai Duty Free? Would Dubai sponsor the event, and then expect it to be a marketing platform for another airport?

My take on it is that they only have so much money to spend on marketing and the Irish Open wasn't within their budget, as you pointed out the Irish Open was sponsored by the Dubai Duty Free so I'd imagine there wasn't much space for another airport type sponsorship

mdmix

Clareman wrote: »

My take on it is that they only have so much money to spend on marketing and the Irish Open wasn't within their budget, as you pointed out the Irish Open was sponsored by the Dubai Duty Free so I'd imagine there wasn't much space for another airport type sponsorship

I can understand if Shannon didn’t have a budget to come on board as a sponsor, but here are many ways which they could have taken advantage of the event. I have to agree it’s a missed opportunity.

“This was very much open, fertile ground for Shannon Airport to market itself as the gateway airport to the West of Ireland. But low and behold, Shannon Airport had no presence at Lahinch. During the Irish Open the airport only posted one lack-lustre tweet about the event that got 10 likes and 3 retweets. At the same time, Clare County Council’s Twitter account reached 472,000 people during the week with one particular update from the Council receiving more than 1700 retweets and likes. This will go down as a gigantic missed marketing opportunity for our local Airport”.

There is some reference to a video created by Clare co council that was shared for free by international media, again if Shannon had reached out maybe they could have got in on this, or even just had their logo included. I suppose it’s only fair to point out that Clare co council could have just as easily taken a leadership role and reached out to other stakeholders including Shannon and perhaps even limerick and Galway councils.

Clareman

I'd imagine that everything had to be approved and that thanks to Clare County Council being on board for logistics reasons that they got their video approved easily enough. Ballygowan was down as the offical water, I'm sure if Clare Spring went to do something that they wouldn't have been long in being shut down.

Could you imagine the negative feedback if the airport had to withdraw or apologize for something they posted, it'd make them look like a 2 bit operation.

Limpy

Was there ever a time when all the check-in gates inside the airport were utilised at the same time?. Its always very quite. Will there ever be a time in the future when the airport would be booming? If not what's holding it back.

mdmix

Clareman wrote: »

Could you imagine the negative feedback if the airport had to withdraw or apologize for something they posted, it'd make them look like a 2 bit operation.

that should not be a concern for them if they have experienced marketing people working there.

“We do prioritise a budget for marketing, we have very experienced people who work in this area, we need to do more and more, we’re working hard but we do need to do more, more funding will help us to do that,” Considine responded.

i think ms Considine is missing the point, increased funding wont help them market the airport unless they understand how to market the airport. maybe shannon airport marketing team can take leaf out of Cork airports book - https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/429134/sponsored-eight-new-routes-out-of-cork-airport-for-summer-2019.html

Balf

mdmix wrote: »

i think ms Considine is missing the point, increased funding wont help them market the airport unless they understand how to market the airport. maybe shannon airport marketing team can take leaf out of Cork airports book - https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/429134/sponsored-eight-new-routes-out-of-cork-airport-for-summer-2019.html

I think you've a point there; I think Knock has equally planted advertising to encourage Galway passengers to choose them, in a context where the alternative would be Shannon.

On the Irish Open (because I think the Council meeting just didn't seem to discuss it sensibly), I'd just suspect that Shannon would have to ask who they are targeting. Would they be using the Irish Open to attract airlines to the airport, or passengers to the airport? Is it the right vehicle to connect to folk in US and UK who might use their existing services, or to airlines interested in new routes?

I'd suspect it might not be. Dubai is one of the world's busiest airports - nearly 90 million passengers use it, so its three times the traffic of Dublin. So I'd guess any event with a global audience is good for them. Would the same logic add up for Shannon? Maybe not. But should more people be choosing Shannon over other airports? Possibly. But who would they be, and why are they using other services?

And, given that several US airlines run (admittedly seasonal) routes out of Shannon, I think its hard to maintain that the airport doesn't have a profile over there.

mdmix

Balf wrote: »

I think you've a point there; I think Knock has equally planted advertising to encourage Galway passengers to choose them, in a context where the alternative would be Shannon.

On the Irish Open (because I think the Council meeting just didn't seem to discuss it sensibly), I'd just suspect that Shannon would have to ask who they are targeting. Would they be using the Irish Open to attract airlines to the airport, or passengers to the airport? Is it the right vehicle to connect to folk in US and UK who might use their existing services, or to airlines interested in new routes?

I'd suspect it might not be. Dubai is one of the world's busiest airports - nearly 90 million passengers use it, so its three times the traffic of Dublin. So I'd guess any event with a global audience is good for them. Would the same logic add up for Shannon? Maybe not. But should more people be choosing Shannon over other airports? Possibly. But who would they be, and why are they using other services?

And, given that several US airlines run (admittedly seasonal) routes out of Shannon, I think its hard to maintain that the airport doesn't have a profile over there.

i tend to agree with you that it probably would not have been worth shannon paying to be a sponsor. the point i was making was that this is a huge event in their back garden and their would have been plenty of ways for them to get involved. Clare co. council are claiming shannon could have taken part in a promo video for free that was circulated and played by global media for free. at the very least they could have taken part in the twitter conversation. they might have even congratulated the dubai duty free on a successful event and reminded them where the very first duty free started.

yes shannon have brand recognition, but that cant be taken for granted. the services are being rolled back because they are not being used. i flew to Philadelphia in recently and there was 50 people on the outbound flight and 30 on the flight back. everyone on both flights was american and over 60, bar 2 or 3 families - this is typical of any flight i have been on from shannon to usa (bar norwegian airlines). to be blunt, shannons demographic is literally dying out and they need to use each and every opportunity to increase awareness. they need to constantly work with other stakeholders, including the councils, universities, multinationals, local businesses and hospitality - and of course airlines.

on a side note, there are 8000 j1s every summer, i doubt many of these will have flown from shannon

Brennans Row

mdmix wrote: »

. . . everyone on both flights was american and over 60, bar 2 or 3 families - this is typical of any flight i have been on from shannon to usa (bar norwegian airlines). to be blunt, shannons demographic is literally dying out

Americans over 60 are not dying out, they remain a growing age group, very active and great spenders.

To dismiss a lucrative segment of the market would be foolhardy.

I agree that Shannon needs to keep promoting these Transatlantic routes to students, business and tourists alike, be it universities, multinationals, sporting bodies and the travel industry in general and in fairness they do.

The Irish and European competition for American visitors remains fierce.

Shannon region to take €58m hit from Boeing 737-Max grounding (Examiner)

The worldwide grounding of the Boeing 737-Max aircraft will cost the region served by Shannon Airport €58m this year.

That is according to the acting chief executive of the Shannon Group Mary Considine who told a special meeting of Clare County Council that the loss of 120,000 passengers from three services affected by the Boeing Max grounding will end six years of passenger growth at Shannon Airport.

The grounding of the Boeing-Max has resulted in the axing of two services by Norwegian Airlines to the US and one Air Canada service to Toronto for 2019.

Ryanair to close some bases due to Boeing 737 MAX delays (RTE)

Ryanair warned that it may have to cut and close bases at airports from November until next summer as it said delays to Boeing's B737 MAX aircraft would hit growth rates.

The longer this issue takes to be resolved, the lower the prospects for growth at Shannon.

RocketRaccoon

Limpy wrote: »

Was there ever a time when all the check-in gates inside the airport were utilised at the same time?. Its always very quite. Will there ever be a time in the future when the airport would be booming? If not what's holding it back.

Back in 2006/7 all check in desks would have been in use during the summer.

huron

Brennans Row wrote: »

The longer this issue takes to be resolved, the lower the prospects for growth at Shannon.

The 737MAX issue and the Ryanair cashflow problem is going to hit Shannon based companies. Ryanair won't have as many planes flying next year because of this. Less planes = less seats = less maintenance = less services, etc.etc. Less seats also = higher prices as demand will outstrip supply.

I'd love to see Foynes Harbour and Shannon linked physically. A bridge would be ideal. Deepest harbour in Europe in Limerick. Foynes can take the large container ships. Shannon could fly the cargo to anywhere in the world. Plus it would open South West Clare up for development. Places like Kildysert have huge amounts of land that could be available for housing when all it's doing is badly feeding sheep.

Phileas Frog

Brennans Row wrote: »

Americans over 60 are not dying out, they remain a growing age group, very active and great spenders.

Unless they have discovered immortality, you'll find that they are dying

SNNUS

Phileas Frog wrote: »

Unless they have discovered immortality, you'll find that they are dying

I think he means that people over 60 are not dying out and that’s the end of that age group!, people get older ..

Cookiemunster

Phileas Frog wrote: »

Unless they have discovered immortality, you'll find that they are dying

Every year there are new 60 year old Americans. The supply is endless.....

Cookiemunster

huron wrote: »

The 737MAX issue and the Ryanair cashflow problem is going to hit Shannon based companies. Ryanair won't have as many planes flying next year because of this. Less planes = less seats = less maintenance = less services, etc.etc. Less seats also = higher prices as demand will outstrip supply.

FR don't use SNN for maintenance, so whatever they do isn't going to going to affect any of the MRO facilities there.
Also FR are looking at 30 fewer MAX planes delivered by summer 2020 than initially planned, but they don't have to sell any of their current NG fleet, so while expansion will be affected they're not going to be contracting their route network. So your argument is flawed.

I'm also not sure what cash flow problems you're refering to. They still made €1bn profit last year.

huron wrote: »

I'd love to see Foynes Harbour and Shannon linked physically. A bridge would be ideal. Deepest harbour in Europe in Limerick. Foynes can take the large container ships. Shannon could fly the cargo to anywhere in the world. Plus it would open South West Clare up for development. Places like Kildysert have huge amounts of land that could be available for housing when all it's doing is badly feeding sheep.

That is pie in the sky. The M21 Limerick to Foynes will allow a full dual carriageway/motorway link between Shannon and Foynes. A bridge over the Shannon that far down the estuary would be prohibitively expensive.
Also places like Kildysert are definitely not the places to be expanding. Limerick, Ennis and Shannon Town yes, rural villages no.

Balf

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Back in 2006/7 all check in desks would have been in use during the summer.

And back then Shannon had about 3.6 million passengers a year.

That halved to 1.7m in 2010, where it has pretty much stagnated since.

SNNUS wrote: »

I think he means that people over 60 are not dying out and that’s the end of that age group!, people get older ..

But the point at issue is that people don't suddenly turn 60 and say "I must fly to Shannon".

If you don't have the current cohort 30, 40 and 50 year olds, you still won't have them when they are 40, 50 and 60 year olds. That's the point folk are making.

mdmix

the point i was making is that shannon is overly reliant on one group of traveler, the american baby boomer - who are dying out. over the next few years generation x will become the over 60s market and there is no guarantee that they will choose to fly through shannon or are aware of its presence. their travel and spending habits are different, partly because of the stage of their life they are in, but also because they are not as wealthy as their previous generation and will not have the same generous retirement benefits.

more importantly, if the Irish population in the west are not using Shannon. passenger numbers are falling, and this has resulted in cuts to the winter timetable. the airport cannot take it for granted that their existing customer base will rise or even be maintained.

the Boeing issue will cost the airport 100,000 passengers this year, while it was completely unforeseen, it will likely take a few years to recover those numbers even if all services are resumed which is not guaranteed. add to that the loss of the Kuwait stopover and Shannon will be luck to break 1.5 million passengers this year - and this is before any potential brexit impact is felt. i hope the shannon team are working overtime, as some good news is badly needed. my concern is that as a spectator observing from the outside is that everything seems business as normal. the lack of engagement on the Irish open was a worry for me.

highlydebased

mdmix wrote: »

more importantly, if the Irish population in the west are not using Shannon. passenger numbers are falling, and this has resulted in cuts to the winter timetable. the airport cannot take it for granted that their existing customer base will rise or even be maintained.

What in specific?

lisasimpson

Fair enough that shannon airport authorities have a limited budget. But to target the younger population they could do a lot more with their social media. Take a look at Cork Airports Facebook and Instagram pages they are very active in promoting their routes very regularly on them. This doesn't cost a lot. We need to get Shannon in the minds of 20 something. Ive heard more than one from this age profile getting the green bus up to Dublin to fly to London Heathrow... absolutely crazy..
Also younger travellers are more likely to go on long haul holidays. For existing routes especially the transatlantic destinations highlight how they can be used to as hubs travelling to central and south America. Again a lot of this can be done through social media
Should also target people travelling with young kids. A lot easier to go through shannon than busy Dublin with young kids and can park fairly close to the terminal.. Between M50 madness and the M7 roadwork the airport could have also used this to promote shannon as an alternative airport

Clareman

My understanding is that Irish airports aren't allowed actively advertise against each other, it'd probably be quicker for a lot of people in Laois to travel from Shannon than it would be from Cork or Dublin airport but Shannon isn't allowed actively advertise.

By my understanding Shannon's main focus is transatlantic, private jets and freight, after that they do whatever they can to get consumer customers

OMM 0000

Emerald VIP Services are looking for a Tour & Operations Assistant.

"We are growing our team to meet the demands of our expanding business and are seeking a Tour & Operations Assistant to join our team based in Shannon, County Clare. The position will be full time. A qualified candidate should have at least two years’ experience working in the travel sector. The position will report to the Business Development Manager, assisting with preparing travel itineraries for Ireland, UK and other locations as requested. Additional duties include updating booking systems and invoicing."

For full spec please visit https://clarejobs.ie/job/14042734/tour-operations-assistant

hobie14

Nice to see AB have a 319 NEO up from TLS this morning for circuits etc ....

Balf

Clareman wrote: »

My understanding is that Irish airports aren't allowed actively advertise against each other

Could you elaborate?

I mean, negative advertising can be ineffective, so there's reasons for advertising by stating strengths instead of by insulting the competitor.

But can you substantiate what it is that limits airport advertising? Because if there's really some binding rules here, they can't be secret.

And, so I don't seem disingenuous, my view is that Shannon's existence is pretty well known at this stage, and I'd guess people haven't forgotten it exists. And I'd guess Laois people to be sufficiently aware of their surroundings to know what they find to the East and the West of them.

I think the discussion needs to move away from smoke and mirrors, and maybe more directly explore why people don't choose Shannon services when people are totally aware that Shannon exists, and probably well aware that Shannon has a mix of services to the UK and US, with some other routes to European destinations.

"Because Laois people don't know where Shannon is, and Shannon is legally required to avoid any suggestion it might be closer than Cork" doesn't persuade me, I'm afraid.

Shapey Fiend

I met a few younger Americans last winter wondered why they picked Ennis for a holiday they said it was cheaper to fly to Clare than to many domestic locations. This was like November though so maybe there were deals.

I used work as a Servisair dispatcher in the airport in 2005/2006 the place was jammed with Irish people borrowed up to their eyeballs. Won't see that happen again... hopefully.

There weren't that many Americans (exchange rate and September 11 put em off flying to Europe). It was mostly Ryanair, a couple of EasyJet, Aer Lingus and a smattering of Delta/American Airlines, half of which were army flights.

RocketRaccoon

Shapey Fiend wrote: »

I met a few younger Americans last winter wondered why they picked Ennis for a holiday they said it was cheaper to fly to Clare than to many domestic locations. This was like November though so maybe there were deals.

I used work as a Servisair dispatcher in the airport in 2005/2006 the place was jammed with Irish people borrowed up to their eyeballs. Won't see that happen again... hopefully.

There weren't that many Americans (exchange rate and September 11 put em off flying to Europe). It was mostly Ryanair, a couple of EasyJet, Aer Lingus and a smattering of Delta/American Airlines, half of which were army flights.

In 2006 there was 2 continental flights, 2 delta flights, us Airways, American Airlines, Air Canada, Air transat. I'm not sure why you think Delta/American were doing military flights but that never has and would never happen. Omni, World and ATA did the troop flights back then. Surely working for servisair you'd have remembered all of them?

Clareman

Balf wrote: »

Could you elaborate?

I mean, negative advertising can be ineffective, so there's reasons for advertising by stating strengths instead of by insulting the competitor.

But can you substantiate what it is that limits airport advertising? Because if there's really some binding rules here, they can't be secret.

And, so I don't seem disingenuous, my view is that Shannon's existence is pretty well known at this stage, and I'd guess people haven't forgotten it exists. And I'd guess Laois people to be sufficiently aware of their surroundings to know what they find to the East and the West of them.

I think the discussion needs to move away from smoke and mirrors, and maybe more directly explore why people don't choose Shannon services when people are totally aware that Shannon exists, and probably well aware that Shannon has a mix of services to the UK and US, with some other routes to European destinations.

"Because Laois people don't know where Shannon is, and Shannon is legally required to avoid any suggestion it might be closer than Cork" doesn't persuade me, I'm afraid.

I'll ask the DAA for the information, I'll share it if I get it

Clareman

Shapey Fiend wrote: »

I met a few younger Americans last winter wondered why they picked Ennis for a holiday they said it was cheaper to fly to Clare than to many domestic locations. This was like November though so maybe there were deals.

I used work as a Servisair dispatcher in the airport in 2005/2006 the place was jammed with Irish people borrowed up to their eyeballs. Won't see that happen again... hopefully.

There weren't that many Americans (exchange rate and September 11 put em off flying to Europe). It was mostly Ryanair, a couple of EasyJet, Aer Lingus and a smattering of Delta/American Airlines, half of which were army flights.

I think UL are activelly recruiting US students pointing out that not only is it cheaper but UL is closer to the Eastern coast of America than a lot of Western Universities.

mdmix

All universities are active in recruiting American students. They come each September, as well as periodically throughout the year for short rotations for of to 8 weeks, so there is a constant stream of students. UL would have a few hundred, but cork and Galway have thousands each. Most of these are sent by recruitment agents in the US who book them through Dublin. The problem is that the agents need their cohort (could be a few or a few dozen students) to arrive on the same flight. Dublin is larger with greater capacity so it’s easier for agents to book via Dublin and organize a bus. Shannon could engage with the unis and see what they can do to facilitate this.

The middle/Far East is a growing market too and will likely become the largest source of foreign students in Irish uni’s in the next 5-10 years. It’s not just the un’is either. RCSI send students from their Bahrain campus to a language school in Tralee before they begin their degree, if there English isint up to scratch.

crazyguy01

RocketRaccoon wrote:

In 2006 there was 2 continental flights, 2 delta flights, us Airways, American Airlines, Air Canada, Air transat. I'm not sure why you think Delta/American were doing military flights but that never has and would never happen. Omni, World and ATA did the troop flights back then. Surely working for servisair you'd have remembered all of them?

Were Royal Jordanian still flying Transatlantic at that time?
North American and Miami Air also flew troops through SNN and Delta did a very occasional military charter too.