Abortion Discussion, Part the Fourth

I've listened to the whole thing and wish I hadn't. However the more these vile opinions are exposed the less support they'll have - worked out great for Brexit and Trump.

Sigh

There's a reason smart humans invented alcohol, it was so they could put up with the stupid humans

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Car crash radio but RTE got what they wanted and that's all that matters.

Or in my case not car crash radio as I reached my destination and escaped unscathed apart from a cramp in my eyes from rolling them. :pac:

But wasn't Conor (?) just a barking mad zealot like. I was WOW. Super crazy on the Lavhline today...

Or maybe Lavhline is always like that... I usually have Lyric on when I'm in the car but changed it yesterday when improve jazz came on...Turn on the car today and we were straight into what could have been outtakes from The Life of Brian

Car crash radio but RTE got what they wanted and that's all that matters.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

SPUCMan... his super power, Forcing women to give birth against their will saving baybees.

By The Power of Being Shouty - SPUCMan.

SPUCMan... his super power, Forcing women to give birth against their will saving baybees.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Link:

https://www.rte.ie/cspodcasts/media.mp3?c1=2&c2=16951747&ns_site=test&ns_type=clickin&rte_vs_ct=aud&rte_vs_sc=pod&rte_mt_sec=radio&rte_mt_prg_name=liveline&rte_vs_sn=radio1&rte_mt_pub_dt=2019-07-09&title=Anti-Abortion%20Protest&c7=http://podcast.rasset.ie/podcasts/audio/2019/0709/20190709_rteradio1-liveline-antiaborti_c21583755_21583758_232_/20190709_rteradio1-liveline-antiaborti_c21583755_21583758_232_.mp3&r=http://podcast.rasset.ie/podcasts/audio/2019/0709/20190709_rteradio1-liveline-antiaborti_c21583755_21583758_232_/20190709_rteradio1-liveline-antiaborti_c21583755_21583758_232_.mp3

Someone is going to have to take one for the team here :pac:

Alternately there just was a shouty SPUC man on BBC Newsnight but tbh Spucman is in the ha'penny place compared to Conor (?) and his small white coffins on Lavhline today.

Liveline thread on the Radio forum is full of some of the most offensive posting you'll ever see on Boards.

Link:

https://www.rte.ie/cspodcasts/media.mp3?c1=2&c2=16951747&ns_site=test&ns_type=clickin&rte_vs_ct=aud&rte_vs_sc=pod&rte_mt_sec=radio&rte_mt_prg_name=liveline&rte_vs_sn=radio1&rte_mt_pub_dt=2019-07-09&title=Anti-Abortion%20Protest&c7=http://podcast.rasset.ie/podcasts/audio/2019/0709/20190709_rteradio1-liveline-antiaborti_c21583755_21583758_232_/20190709_rteradio1-liveline-antiaborti_c21583755_21583758_232_.mp3&r=http://podcast.rasset.ie/podcasts/audio/2019/0709/20190709_rteradio1-liveline-antiaborti_c21583755_21583758_232_/20190709_rteradio1-liveline-antiaborti_c21583755_21583758_232_.mp3

Someone is going to have to take one for the team here :pac:

Igotadose wrote: »

That link shows that, actually, abortion rights *have* been extended to NI.

So, are abortion rights now universal on our Ireland? This is quietly a great day for Ireland.
---
Did some more reading. If Stormont is restored, it must vote on abortion rights & same-sex marriage if before october 21. Otherwise, both laws come into effect on the 21st.

So, it's a really good day for Northern Ireland, but not completely resolved yet.

It will be an interesting meeting in DUP HQ discussing that one.

South of the Border meanwhile did any catch Lavhline today? It was on while I was driving and what the actual planet was yer man with his Rosary of Reparations on? I was, on the one hand, willing him to keep talking about Hell and Sin etc as it was the best argument for pro-choice ever but, on the other hand, I was rolling my eyes so much I was in danger of crashing.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

MP's have voted to extend SSM to Northern Ireland and will later vote on abortion rights.

https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/NBrMz

That link shows that, actually, abortion rights *have* been extended to NI.

So, are abortion rights now universal on our Ireland? This is quietly a great day for Ireland.
---
Did some more reading. If Stormont is restored, it must vote on abortion rights & same-sex marriage if before october 21. Otherwise, both laws come into effect on the 21st.

So, it's a really good day for Northern Ireland, but not completely resolved yet.

Timberrrrrrrr

MP's have voted to extend SSM to Northern Ireland and will later vote on abortion rights.

https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/NBrMz

MPs have voted resoundingly to extend same-sex marriage to Northern Ireland, a plan the government has said it will honour despite ministerial doubts.

The Commons voted 383 to 73 to pass the amendment to a largely technical bill on the stalled Northern Ireland assembly, tabled by the Labour MP Conor McGinn, a longstanding campaigner for equal marriage in Northern Ireland.

MPs will vote later on another amendment to the bill to extend abortion rights to Northern Ireland, tabled by the Labour MP Stella Creasy.

The government has long argued that both issues are devolved matters and should not be imposed on Northern Ireland by Westminster. But McGinn and Creasy say the fact the assembly and executive have been suspended since January 2017 amid political deadlock means action must be taken.

DubInMeath wrote: »

The thing is if doing so on religious grounds, they see the morning after pill as a form of chemical abortion, so no they still wouldn't dispense it.

While your saying just go to another pharmacy, I understand that, but not everyone can drive etc to the next town to see if they dispense it.

From personal experience, only one pharmacy in Tuam would dispense it, and it only opened one Sunday in every four weeks, and the closest pharmacy open seven days also refused to dispense it. This might have changed since then as this was over five years ago.

Kells in Meath for example none of the pharmacies in the town open on a Sunday and until a pharmacy chain opened last year you had to travel to Navan to get a pharmacy.

*Not* having contraception available won't change their behavior. Having it available and making it uncomfortable for the pharmacists to refuse, would.

Though, I totally agree with your basic point, which is, conscientious objection is bullsh*t. It's only ever about women's right to healthcare and it's only ever "conscientiously objected" against. The objections should be removed by law. I expect that change will come in due time. Doctors and pharmacists that object should have these objections noted publicly on websites and perhaps at the doors of their clinics/pharmacies.

[Deleted User]

Igotadose wrote: »

True, but if a pharmacists constituents come in, get refused, and move on to another pharmacist, that has an impact. They *can* object, doesn't mean they will, or persist in objecting. Keep the pressure on.

And really, don't give out contraception, fine. Raise the probability of abortion. Just what the objecting pharmacist would want? Doubtful.

The thing is if doing so on religious grounds, they see the morning after pill as a form of chemical abortion, so no they still wouldn't dispense it.

While your saying just go to another pharmacy, I understand that, but not everyone can drive etc to the next town to see if they dispense it.

From personal experience, only one pharmacy in Tuam would dispense it, and it only opened one Sunday in every four weeks, and the closest pharmacy open seven days also refused to dispense it. This might have changed since then as this was over five years ago.

Kells in Meath for example none of the pharmacies in the town open on a Sunday and until a pharmacy chain opened last year you had to travel to Navan to get a pharmacy.

DubInMeath wrote: »

I'm not against it, but don't see anything stating that a pharmacist cannot refuse to dispense the morning after pill for personal reasons.

True, but if a pharmacists constituents come in, get refused, and move on to another pharmacist, that has an impact. They *can* object, doesn't mean they will, or persist in objecting. Keep the pressure on.

And really, don't give out contraception, fine. Raise the probability of abortion. Just what the objecting pharmacist would want? Doubtful.

volchitsa

DubInMeath wrote: »

Given pharmacists can still refuse to dispense the morning after pill due to personal religious beliefs, to the best of my knowledge, would this change anything in relation to this?

Possibly not, but is that really a major problem nowadays?

Basically I think it pushes the balance of what is "normal" further towards "mind your own business" which is a good thing, but I really meant for activists like the Ionanists, who must surely hate the very idea of easy access to contraception, and yet can hardly come out against it without having to explain why they are taking a stance which can only increase numbers of unwanted pregnancies and therefore abortions.

[Deleted User]

Igotadose wrote: »

Yes. Anything that improves women's access to contraception is good. Removing the Church-decreed double standard in healthcare is still critical. Repealing the 8th was just the first step.

I'm not against it, but don't see anything stating that a pharmacist cannot refuse to dispense the morning after pill for personal reasons.

DubInMeath wrote: »

Given pharmacists can still refuse to dispense the morning after pill due to personal religious beliefs, to the best of my knowledge, would this change anything in relation to this?

Yes. Anything that improves women's access to contraception is good. Removing the Church-decreed double standard in healthcare is still critical. Repealing the 8th was just the first step.

[Deleted User]

volchitsa wrote: »

Can't help feeling many prolifers are hoist on their own petard here - I don't suppose that promoting free contraception for hussies is something they ever saw as a goal, never mind becoming their last stand against abortion.

Given pharmacists can still refuse to dispense the morning after pill due to personal religious beliefs, to the best of my knowledge, would this change anything in relation to this?

volchitsa

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Dept of Health public consultation on access to contraception is here:

https://health.gov.ie/consultations/

Closing date for submissions is 5th August.

Can't help feeling many prolifers are hoist on their own petard here - I don't suppose that promoting free contraception for hussies is something they ever saw as a goal, never mind becoming their last stand against abortion.

Dept of Health public consultation on access to contraception is here:

https://health.gov.ie/consultations/

Closing date for submissions is 5th August.

Public consultation on access to contraception – have your say!

The Joint Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution has recommended:

“The introduction of a scheme for the provision of the most effective method of contraception, free of charge and having regard to personal circumstances, to all people who wish to avail of them within the State.”

The Working Group on Access to Contraception was set up in 2019 to decide how best to implement this recommendation. The Working Group is made up of officials from the Department of Health. Its work involves:

• Doing research and gathering evidence
• Considering legal and regulatory issues
• Consulting stakeholders like you

The Working Group are asking stakeholders and members of the public to share their views on this issue by filling in the consultation questionnaire. Everyone is welcome to take part.

aloyisious

smacl wrote: »

One could argue that a significant number of abortions relating to unwanted pregnancy in the past were due to lack of access to contraception for many, which in turn was due in no small part to the Catholic church.

Re artificial contraception, one may understand its directly related to the stance the Christian church says God has on sex, pregnancy and offspring and it being a sacred thing. Nothing about sex outside marriage which Genesis has God approving of, looking at Onan, his duty to his brother and his brothers wife and getting allmightilu annoyed when said duty was not performed, and a certain other sinful act.

smacl

volchitsa wrote: »

You would think, wouldn't you? Many prolifers don't agree with "artificial" contraception - though I'm sure it's sheer coincidence that this is also the catholic church's stance - and I don't see any thing in that article that suggests they are going to change their minds on that soon, unfortunately.

One could argue that a significant number of abortions relating to unwanted pregnancy in the past were due to lack of access to contraception for many, which in turn was due in no small part to the Catholic church.

volchitsa

Igotadose wrote: »

Here's something the pro-life and pro-choice sides can agree upon. Free contraception funding, the best way to prevent abortion:
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/free-contraception-funding-budget-ireland-17371293

You would think, wouldn't you? Many prolifers don't agree with "artificial" contraception - though I'm sure it's sheer coincidence that this is also the catholic church's stance - and I don't see any thing in that article that suggests they are going to change their minds on that soon, unfortunately.

Here's something the pro-life and pro-choice sides can agree upon. Free contraception funding, the best way to prevent abortion:
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/free-contraception-funding-budget-ireland-17371293

I even have a candidate line item in the budget to take from - the ring-fenced funding for the greyhound industry!

robindch

An Alabama district attorney has dropped manslaughter charges against Marshae Jones, 28, the pregnant woman whose unborn child died after she was shot in the stomach:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48849040

Answer to your question aloyisious - No.

It's a lot easier to get an .ie than it used to be - I'm not sure if having a business establishment in Ireland is still a requirement to get an .ie but that would be no barrier to the pro-life side who have many established companies - mostly at the same address

and would be no barrier to having it funded from overseas either, if they wanted.

Cheaper to get a .com - but I expect the reports on Sunday to mention the usual free buses from around the country and lots of professionally printed placards, funding has never been an issue for them...

smacl

aloyisious wrote: »

On a related matter, I saw yesterday the posters for the anti-abortion campaign event are ended with a .Com and not a .IE net address. Does the difference between both net addresses indicates anything specific as to the .Com address location on the globe?

Not particularly. While i use .ie myself there are plenty of Irish companies using .com and plenty of international companies selling into Ireland using a .ie website to give the impression of being Irish. All just marketing really.

aloyisious

Touchy one this, even with the touchiness the topic already has. I saw from last week that on 06th July the anti-abortion campaign has a rally in Dublin, the same day the Trans-Pride march is on in Dublin. I was worried about the chance that supporters of both might meet but took it as a taken that the GS would ensure there would be hours between both events. Seems there will be at least - EDIT: 2 hours -between them as both start from Parnell Square GoR. I see on facebook today that ARC will be at the Trans Pride event so hope there will be no carry-over directly between both planned events.

On a related matter, I saw yesterday the posters for the anti-abortion campaign event are ended with a .Com and not a .IE net address. Does the difference between both net addresses indicates anything specific as to the .Com address location on the globe?

Cabaal

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Jeez, Cora Sherlock is delusional. "This law is only on loan to the pro-choicers", "the debate is not over", "many yes voters are regretting their vote". Complete and utter BS.

Reminds me of before the ref when the claim from the pro life side was the "silent majority" of no voters
:rolleyes: