Gemma O'Doherty and her unicorns

Blueshoe wrote: »

The guardian? Pull the other one
The link above it tells us how many Muslims there are and will be and halal is great business for them. That's obvious isn't it. Unless you are accepting that everywhere will eventually have huge Muslim populations which would make Halal the obvious choice.

Its also about the growing export market.

As a small open economy, we are very reliant on exports, and alternatives to the UK to diversify customer bases to prevent Brexit shock are actively being saught in many industries.

banie01

Seanachai wrote: »

I'm not going to try and convince you of something you have no experience of, except to say that anybody that truly adheres to the scientific method would have an agnostic position on the subject. It isn't 'settled-science' as they say.

Surely if magic words worked, proof would be as simple as DNA testing the Eucharist wafer post communion?

Waffle about agnosticism when discussing the effect words may have on the imbibing of bread be it Catholic or Halal...
Is wanton nonsense.

Blueshoe wrote: »

The symbol is an indication that the method of butchering the animal was changed to suit Islamic culture and beliefs

No thanks. Manufacturers won't roll out placing the symbol on their products as they know sales will decrease.

How many animals do you think were killed to make your batch loaf ?!

The Nal wrote: »

Well it wasn't ten minutes ago when you posted "Manufacturers won't roll out placing the symbol on their products as they know sales will decrease" despite the actual facts, the evidence, the proof, showing the exact opposite.

Very small Muslim population in Ireland. At least you are finally accepting that this will eventually change and the percentage will rise drastically. In this case Halal certification makes sense

The Nal

Blueshoe wrote: »

The guardian? Pull the other one
The link above it tells us how many Muslims there are and will be and halal is great business for them. That's obvious isn't it. Unless you are accepting that everywhere will eventually have huge Muslim populations which would make Halal the obvious choice.

Well it wasn't ten minutes ago when you posted "Manufacturers won't roll out placing the symbol on their products as they know sales will decrease" despite the actual facts, the evidence, the proof, showing the exact opposite.

The Nal wrote: »

Quite literally the exact opposite

Makeup, meds and sports wear: Why halal has become big business

https://www.foreigner.fi/articulo/business/halal-growing-regulated-market-and-great-business-opportunity/20190109153131001071.html

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/nov/11/food-and-drink-manufacturers-have-no-plans-to-ditch-halal-certification

Etc etc.

The guardian? Pull the other one
The link above it tells us how many Muslims there are and will be and halal is great business for them. That's obvious isn't it. Unless you are accepting that everywhere will eventually have huge Muslim populations which would make Halal the obvious choice.

The Nal

Blueshoe wrote: »

No thanks. Manufacturers won't roll out placing the symbol on their products as they know sales will decrease.

Quite literally the exact opposite

Makeup, meds and sports wear: Why halal has become big business

Halal, a growing regulated market and a great business opportunity

Food and drink manufacturers ‘have no plans’ to ditch halal certification

Etc etc.

2.2 million Muslims in the world in 30 years. Anyone not concerned with Halal certification is a moron.

Are you concerned about Halal certification?

Sonic_exyouth wrote: »

"bend over backwards" = Putting a small little symbol on a piece of food packaging to try increase sales.

The symbol is an indication that the method of butchering the animal was changed to suit Islamic culture and beliefs

No thanks. Manufacturers won't roll out placing the symbol on their products as they know sales will decrease.

Sonic_exyouth wrote: »

Have you made any effort to find out?

Its a registered charity with the Charities regulator, meaning it is subject to regular audit.

https://www.charitiesregulator.ie/en/information-for-the-public/search-the-charities-register/charity-detail?srchstr=Islamic%20Foundation%20of%20Ireland&regid=20012809

It's Activities are listed as
Promotion of community

Promotion of support to charities sector

Religious activities

Beneficiaries

Adult training

Asylum seekers/refugees

Community services

Ethnic minorities

Ex-offenders and prisoners

Family services

Health promotion

Homeless services

Humanitarian relief services

Integration of those who are disadvantaged into society

Mental health support

Overseas aid

Volunteers

Promotion of the spread of Islam in Ireland. No thanks.

It's not in my interests. Il spend my money elsewhere.

recedite wrote: »

Similarly I have stopped buying Brennans bread, but I will resume when/if they stop paying money to the Islamic Foundation of Ireland.
*I don't have to know what that foundation is spending the money on.*
I just know they are not getting my money.

Have you made any effort to find out?

Its a registered charity with the Charities regulator, meaning it is subject to regular audit.

https://www.charitiesregulator.ie/en/information-for-the-public/search-the-charities-register/charity-detail?srchstr=Islamic%20Foundation%20of%20Ireland&regid=20012809

It's Activities are listed as

Promotion of community
Promotion of support to charities sector
Religious activities

Beneficiaries

Adult training
Asylum seekers/refugees
Community services
Ethnic minorities
Ex-offenders and prisoners
Family services
Health promotion
Homeless services
Humanitarian relief services
Integration of those who are disadvantaged into society
Mental health support
Overseas aid
Volunteers

King Mob wrote: »

First things first,
You said that Kelloggs did not deny that public pressure played a role.
Could you please explain why you claimed this in spite of what the article said?
Did you not realise that the article said this?

Could you also now confirm that when Kellogg said:
“This was a commercial decision, not the result of any public pressure or backlash.”
They are in fact lying?

You can call it lying.

I called it marketing speak.
I believe marketing executives like to call it "bluff and bluster" or use terms like "damage limitation measures".

King Mob wrote: »

Could you also address why you claimed to be quoting "the muslim" guy when nothing like what you said he said appears in either of the articles you posted. It's very very dishonest of you, and makes you a bit of a hypocrite to be whinging about honesty.

Here's the post where I made that claim, and linked to the relevant article.
Anyone can read that post, check the link, and see whether I quoted from the link accurately.
It then becomes obvious which of us is being dishonest here.

recedite wrote: »

Or are you trying to say that public tastes and pressure have no effect on the commercial decisions of a company like Kelloggs?
Because that is simply nonsense. And I realise you have focused in on this one quote from a company spokesperson...

First things first,
You said that Kelloggs did not deny that public pressure played a role.
Could you please explain why you claimed this in spite of what the article said?
Did you not realise that the article said this?

Could you also now confirm that when Kellogg said:
“This was a commercial decision, not the result of any public pressure or backlash.”
They are in fact lying?

Could you also address why you claimed to be quoting "the muslim" guy when nothing like what you said he said appears in either of the articles you posted.

You are asking a lot of questions before addressing the points you have dodged.
It's very very dishonest of you, and makes you a bit of a hypocrite to be whinging about honesty.

Seanachai wrote: »

I haven't set foot inside a church in years, I can understand somebody with Christian, Hindu or another faith not wanting Muslim prayers said over their food though.

Seanachai wrote: »

That's fair enough, I don't like the thought of any prayers from any faith being said over my food.

How would the prayers affect you or your food?

King Mob wrote: »

Speaking of...
Going to go back and address that bit where you claimed articles and people said stuff they didn't?
Bit dishonest to do that, then promptly ignore when people point out that you did that.

What's your point here?
Are you trying to say there was no campaign against Kelloggs paying for Halal certification in Australia? (even though the Muslim guy there said there was)

Or are you trying to say that public tastes and pressure have no effect on the commercial decisions of a company like Kelloggs?
Because that is simply nonsense. And I realise you have focused in on this one quote from a company spokesperson...

“This was a commercial decision, not the result of any public pressure or backlash.”

But that is marketing speak. They would say that, wouldn't they.
Come on now, I don't think you are so thick as to believe every single thing a marketing executive says.

A commercial decision in such a situation comes down to the basic equation; "if we do X, will it increase our sales, or will it decrease our sales".
Halal certification, or no Halal certification. That is the question. Maybe it seemed like a good idea at first.
Its a commercial decision for Brennans, just like it was for Kelloggs. The decision is based on the perceived market demand.

Martina1991

Seanachai wrote:

That's fair enough, I don't like the thought of any prayers from any faith being said over my food.

How do you know that none of the young ones working in Lidl or Tesco arent saying the Our Father over your mince or sausages.

Nonsense.

Sonic_exyouth wrote: »

"bend over backwards" = Putting a small little symbol on a piece of food packaging to try increase sales.

Some people get triggered by the smallest things...

ohnonotgmail

recedite wrote: »

Obviously not, but you go ahead and create the strawman anyway. Then you can have some fun over the next few pages laughing at all the non-existent "stupid" people your strawman represents. Its what you have been doing throughout this thread. A blatantly dishonest form of debate.

Pot meet kettle.

Seanachai wrote: »

I'm not going to try and convince you of something you have no experience of, except to say that anybody that truly adheres to the scientific method would have an agnostic position on the subject. It isn't 'settled-science' as they say.

Ok, but magic doesn't exist. It's fictional.

Halal bread is not cursed by Islamic magic.

recedite wrote: »

Obviously not,

Why bring up halal slaughter then?
The topic is and has been halal certified bread which does not have prayers said over it.
So that isn't a concern.

recedite wrote: »

A blatantly dishonest form of debate.

Speaking of...
Going to go back and address that bit where you claimed articles and people said stuff they didn't?
Bit dishonest to do that, then promptly ignore when people point out that you did that.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

are they an integral part of the making of halal bread? at what point in the bread making process are the prayers said?

Obviously not, but you go ahead and create the strawman anyway. Then you can have some fun over the next few pages laughing at all the non-existent "stupid" people your strawman represents. Its what you have been doing throughout this thread. A blatantly dishonest form of debate.

Overheal

circadian wrote: »

Maybe I picked this up wrong, but are you suggesting there's an Imam at the exit to the factory blessing all the bread?!?

What a fantastic form of protest if someone goes ahead with that.

Blueshoe wrote: »

Why are we entertaining them doing it then? Why not tell them to take their fairy tales elsewhere.

Because some people want to bend over backwards to accommodate them. Sad

"bend over backwards" = Putting a small little symbol on a piece of food packaging to try increase sales.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Why though? They are just words, they are not magical, they don't make anything taste different. I honestly think it's a very childish reason to use.

Why are we entertaining them doing it then? Why not tell them to take their fairy tales elsewhere.

Because some people want to bend over backwards to accommodate them. Sad

ohnonotgmail

Seanachai wrote: »

I'm not going to try and convince you of something you have no experience of, except to say that anybody that truly adheres to the scientific method would have an agnostic position on the subject. It isn't 'settled-science' as they say.

anybody that adhered to the scientific method would ask for evidence of your claims and dismiss them when you cant provide it.

Seanachai

King Mob wrote: »

But magic isn't real though...

Either way, no prayer is being used on halal certified bread, so you are safe from the evil magic.

This has gotten very silly indeed.

I'm not going to try and convince you of something you have no experience of, except to say that anybody that truly adheres to the scientific method would have an agnostic position on the subject. It isn't 'settled-science' as they say.

Ha Long Bay

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

are they an integral part of the making of halal bread? at what point in the bread making process are the prayers said?

They get Aul Mr Brennan to say the prayers.

ohnonotgmail

recedite wrote: »

Islamic prayers are in integral part of Halal slaughtering.
Paying money over to the Islamic Foundation of Ireland is an integral part of marketing Halal certified bread.

are they an integral part of the making of halal bread? at what point in the bread making process are the prayers said?

Seanachai wrote: »

I haven't set foot inside a church in years, I can understand somebody with Christian, Hindu or another faith not wanting Muslim prayers said over their food though.

Islamic prayers are in integral part of the Halal slaughtering process.
Paying money over to the Islamic Foundation of Ireland is an integral part of marketing Halal certified bread.