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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

Quin_Dub

The continuing discussion of the Donald Trump Presidency.

Keep it civil and please note the charter before posting

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Leroy42

Kimsang, you have to admit that Trump publicly attacks his political opponents with claims that in the majority of the time turn out to be completely unfounded. And we know from history that that is the cornerstone of fascism.

Even your answer response to Everlast in terms how he said he would lock her up, was met with the reasoning that he called her after he won and said he never meant it (or words to that effect). So even by your own understanding the man clearly lies in order to target his political opponents.

Of course none of that is new, he was a the centre of the Birther conspiracy, which had everything to do with Obama being black and nothing to do with his policies.

Leroy42

RIGOLO wrote: »

Every political campaign in history has had an element of spreading lies about their opponents.

They werent all Fascists.

Just cos YOU say someone is a Fascist, it does not neccessarily mean they are, its just your opinion.

People tend to lie about peoples policies, saying that the Dems love free healthcare or whatever.

Trump brought it to entirely new level by claiming that HC was a crook (which he then told her after he won he never believed).

One is debate, the other is slander.

Of course only history will really tell us that someone is a fascist. Most are clever enough to hide it long enough to keep the idea as just about denialable. But history has shown us that they carry many of the same traits. And whilst of course they are never the same, it is unwise to simply ignore them and simply hope.

Kimsang

Leroy42 wrote: »

Kimsang, you have to admit that Trump publicly attacks his political opponents with claims that in the majority of the time turn out to be completely unfounded.

Even your answer response to Everlast in terms how he said he would lock her up, was met with the reasoning that he called her after he won and said he never meant it (or words to that effect). So even by your own understanding the man clearly lies in order to target his political opponents.

Of course none of that is new, he was a the centre of the Birther conspiracy, which had everything to do with Obama being black and nothing to do with his policies.

I already admitted it over and over. The question being asked over and over within posts of each other seems to be going off topic.

What is in question is whether all these lies that Trump tells makes him a fascist. In my opinion, no. At a stretch I might say they are fascistic tendencies, but as a whole he hasn't shown to be a fascist.

MrFresh

Has he tweeted about his speech gaff yet> I'm wondering which direction he'll go with it. My gut says he'll blame the teleprompter and exhaustion from all the travelling he's been doing.

everlast75

Kimsang wrote: »

I already admitted it over and over. The question being asked over and over within posts of each other seems to be going off topic.

What is in question is whether all these lies that Trump tells makes him a fascist. In my opinion, no. At a stretch I might say they are fascistic tendencies, but as a whole he hasn't shown to be a fascist.

I didn't say one of the 12 elements makes him a fascist.

I said when you tick the boxes of the ones he has done, it makes it harder to argue that he isn't a fascist.

Leroy42

So we have a man that openly lies, lies about political opponents, is openly trying to stack the judiciary in his favour, calls into question any judiciary that rules against him, calls Senator and Congressmen traitors if they don't agree with him, tries to stifle the freedom of the press (against the stated wished of the sacred constitution!).

Has shut down public press briefings, gives interviews to only selected media, prefers to publish his own news rather than go through the usual media with its follow up and fact checking has installed his own family members in high level jobs, uses his position to gain monetarily from the state with his own companies, has used his position to promote his family members business.

Attacked any investigation by the democratically elected house as a witch hunt, failed to partake in the investigation, called into question the bias of those investigating.

And that is just off the top of my head.

RIGOLO

MrFresh wrote: »

Has he tweeted about his speech gaff yet> I'm wondering which direction he'll go with it. My gut says he'll blame the teleprompter and exhaustion from all the travelling he's been doing.

Yep the media and anti-Trumpers are all worked up about a supposed gaff in his speech, I expect they will dine out on it for the weekend.

Meanwhile the Trump supporters admire the June jobs numbers coming in at over 244,000 and beating market expectations.

RIGOLO

everlast75 wrote: »

I didn't say one of the 12 elements makes him a fascist.

I said when you tick the boxes of the ones he has done, it makes it harder to argue that he isn't a fascist.

except he hasnt done anything that is even remotely fascist ....

Christy42

MrFresh wrote: »

Has he tweeted about his speech gaff yet> I'm wondering which direction he'll go with it. My gut says he'll blame the teleprompter and exhaustion from all the travelling he's been doing.

He could just double down. The CIA, the dems they lied. They want to reduce down the founding father's achievements when they took the airports. They are destroying our history and only I can stop it?

Honestly I imagine he will ignore it. Some staffer will be shoved out to say he means ports or whatever the closest equivalent they find after the crack open history books.

everlast75

RIGOLO wrote: »

Yep the media and anti-Trumpers are all worked up about a supposed gaff in his speech, I expect they will dine out on it for the weekend.

Meanwhile the Trump supporters admire the June jobs numbers coming in at over 244,000 and beating market expectations.

He inherited that from Obama (despite what he says)

Just like he inherited a massive amount from his dad (despite what he says)

Lets just hope he does a better job with the economy than he did with his inheritance. .

everlast75

RIGOLO wrote: »

except he hasnt done anything that is even remotely fascist ....

Look at the list.

Tell me *honestly* what he has NOT done.

Midlife

Kimsang wrote: »

Anyone with any intelligence or sense could see that.

Everyone with any intelligence or sense...except pretty much everyone who posts here.

Makes perfect sense though.

You know if you find yourself continually surrounded by people who 'don't get it' in terms of your posts, there is a possibility you may not have considered.

mcmoustache

RIGOLO wrote: »

And even some on the left gave Trump credit for having a fairly innocous speech and not diverting to a pure 2020 election campaign rally as many on the left expected.

Well, except for that bit about securing the airports in 1776.

What do you think that was about? Would you suspect someone messing with the teleprompter or is it just reading difficulties?

James Brown

hotmail.com wrote: »

But calling only those that support that type of stuff as red necks is incorrect.

All Americans love their military and wars and dropping bombs.

Nope, I did not say that.
I said his red neck base would love it. That's who he plays to. Others enjoyed it I'm sure.

This is all about Trump seeing what other leaders have and wanting same. It's ego driven.
The United States is more than the force of it's military, many of whom are looked after very poorly. He's set that nation backwards and looks to be moving further away from liberty, justice etc. with a stacked Supreme court, children separated from parents and wanting political opponents locked up while turning people against the 'free' press.

Kimsang

everlast75 wrote: »

Lets just hope he does a better job with the economy than he did with his inheritance. .

Just for anyone who doesn't know the story, it is quite remarkable.
I know the casino industry quite well; I can attest to how much of a gangster Trump was acting like in Atlantic City.

Just look up the name of one time Japanese billionaire Akio Kashiwagi.

Detailed in Adam Curtis' Hypernormalization.

peddlelies

There was some article a while back about how widely and wrongly labeling people as Nazi's and Fascist's leads to actual genuine criticisms of Trump and his administration getting ignored and those doing the name coming off as unhinged. People should pay more heed to that. Trump isn't a Fascist, don't be bloody stupid. A few years ago he was hosting reality TV shows.

I'm not talking about Proudboys, they promote political violence as part of their doctrine so call them neo facists away, they deserve it. What the hell was Gavin McInnes thinking? From founder of Vice to that garbage.

MrFresh

peddlelies wrote: »

There was some article a while back about how widely and wrongly labeling people as Nazi's and Fascist's leads to actual genuine criticisms of Trump and his administration getting ignored and those doing the name coming off as unhinged. People should pay more heed to that. Trump isn't a Fascist, don't be bloody stupid. A few years ago he was hosting reality TV shows.

I'm not talking about Proudboys, they promote political violence as part of their doctrine so call them neo facists away, they deserve it. What the hell was Gavin McInnes thinking? From founder of Vice to that garbage.

He has all the hallmarks of a fascist. Doesn't believe in the popular vote or the value of congress. Values loyalty over competence. Believes his authority is above the laws. What characteristic do you think makes a fascist that he doesn't display?

everlast75

MrFresh wrote: »

He has all the hallmarks of a fascist. Doesn't believe in the popular vote or the value of congress. Values loyalty over competence. Believes his authority is above the laws. What characteristic do you think makes a fascist that he doesn't display?

I wouldn't mind, but i supplied a checklist...

26000 Elephants

Kimsang wrote: »

At a stretch I might say they are fascistic tendencies, but as a whole he hasn't shown to be a fascist.

Would you then concede that, at the very least, he is a sort of... Apprentice Fascist?

Brian?

26000 Elephants wrote: »

Would you then concede that, at the very least, he is a sort of... Apprentice Fascist?

I Actually don't think he's a fascist, that would require actually believing in something.

He's a populist with authoritarian tendencies

peddlelies

MrFresh wrote: »

He has all the hallmarks of a fascist. Doesn't believe in the popular vote or the value of congress. Values loyalty over competence. Believes his authority is above the laws.

Your points just sound so stupid to me. The electoral college is the law and how he won, of course publicly he's going to side with it. There's a old tweet of his slating it. If he's able to easily bypass congress with executive orders then the laws should be changed to be more restrictive, the guy did the same in business with tax loopholes and the like. Loyalty is a good trait to harbor in life in general, I can agree he's over excessive in that point but Fascist, really? Mueller finished his investigation and we know how that turned out.

He's been pretty contained war wise thus far. The last time I checked Democracy is still functional in the US with a two party system and there's a better than evens chance he loses the 2020 election next year. You're comparing him to people like Hitler and Mussolini. Go get some history lessons or something.

What characteristic do you think makes a fascist that he doesn't display?

How about something like ethnic cleansing or declaring war on sovereign states? Eliminating all political opponents and parties? Trump is an abrasive loudmouth celebrity brand mogul and reality TV star who's proven over time he's lacking morals so much so that he's unfit to be President. I'm not stupid enough to deny that but people knew that and voted him in anyway. Peak PC culture and running an equally horrible opponent allowed him to win.

At least he's consistent, to a degree.

everlast75

Shortly before his inauguration, he told Sean Hannity that he would “balance the budget very quickly … I think over a five-year period. And I don’t know, maybe I could even surprise you.”

https://twitter.com/NationalDebt/status/1146514614194249729?s=19

relax carry on

So Trump blames the rain for knocking out the Teleprompter during his speech. Fair enough, not a nice thing to happen to anyone at all. However how does not having a teleprompter translate into this:

"Our army manned the air, it rammed the ramparts, it took over the airports"

Pedro K

Lads. He spoke of airports in 1781. He's an idiot. Educated far beyond his intelligence. Anyone defending him in any way needs their head checked.

This is a man who tells us he has the best words, yet people have to keep coming out interpreting and translating his comments.

s7ryf3925pivug

I'd be surprised if he doesn't have dementia.

Itssoeasy

Brian? wrote: »

I Actually don't think he's a fascist, that would require actually believing in something.

He's a populist with authoritarian tendencies

Fair enough but the problem is the people who would identify as fascist or racist in America believe the president of the united states is on their side and they have been emboldened by Trump.

Itssoeasy

Pedro K wrote: »

Lads. He spoke of airports in 1781. He's an idiot. Educated far beyond his intelligence. Anyone defending him in any way needs their head checked.

This is a man who tells us he has the best words, yet people have to keep coming out interpreting and translating his comments.

I saw that and he claimed Alexander Graham Bell was an American when I think he was Scottish.

Zubeneschamali

Sean Melodic Comb wrote: »

I'd be surprised if he doesn't have dementia.

And we have eye witness accounts of him snorting crushed Adderrall tablets.

As I said earlier, he's a dementia sufferer on speed.

All the stuff about how he is a lying racist cheating rapist is Trump 20 years ago. Now he is just the senile husk of a lying racist cheating rapist.

IamtheWalrus

DescriptionAlexandria Ocasio-Cortez Seems to be making a splash. Is she a future president?

s7ryf3925pivug

Starting to feel like the Russian interference was less about gaining direct influence and more about attacking the notion of democracy itself.