kilns wrote: » I agree, a dramatic change is needed for competitiveness like combining even 3 counties together i.e Sligo, Leitrim, Fermanagh for example but the problem could be people will lose that connection and sense of pride in their county
kilns wrote: » its not an amazing coincidence that Dublin have a very good group of players, they have had many in the past, the difference now is management and a winning mentality.
lukin wrote: » So why keep taking the money then if it's "management and a winning mentality" that is the reason for the success? Why not ask the GAA to reduce your funding?
kilns wrote: » Is that a serious question? OK once again the funding is for Games Development i.e. development of the participation and coaching of children throughout the county
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » You still haven't proved or shown any stats to suggest Dublin is a special case compared to the rest of Ireland and deserves more help with GAA participation. Every county needs help with participation. This is the scandal of the increased funds to Dublin, it borders on corruption imo. One county favoured over all others with increased funds for no valid reason. And it has completely distorted the playing field in Gaelic football to the point where for example the Leinster Championship has been killed off.
lukin wrote: » Is there a way of verifying this? How do we know the Dublin County Board are spending every cent of his funding on "children"? Do the GAA demand proof of this as a condition for providing this funding? Or do they just take their word for it?
kilns wrote: » If for example Dublin did split in two would that also mean the club scene would have to split in two also?
kilns wrote: » OK lets breakdown it down simply for you Dublin has 30% of the total population of Ireland. In the 90s the GAA was dying in Dublin, and there was vast areas of Dublin which had no clubs even catering for them, in addition there were new areas of Dublin which were being built which would house thousands and thousands. Something had to be done, like or not Dublin is good for the GAA as no other county can create the revenue streams which Dublin do, if nothing was done, the GAA would be minority sport in Dublin and the GAA in general would have suffered. As much as you would like to dispute it but the GAA is the number 1 sport in the vast majority of rural areas around the country. It was obvious the need to ensure the future of the GAA in Dublin and the plan was put in place. Yes some other urban areas around the country the GAA is in the minority and that needs to be addressed and I dont know if the appetite was their from these counties to develop them, all i know is the appetite was in Dublin and I firmly believe without GPOs etc the GAA in Dublin would be tiny minority. The funding was not about pumping money into elite squads and giving them access to scientests etc it was aimed at children and getting more involved in the game and deep down you know that. Can you give me a clear example of how the funding has distorted the playing field in gaelic football? Would the players that are there now not be there because of funding? Dublin in the last 10 years have been blessed with some of the most talented players ever to play the game. Are there players of the same standard coming through to take their place, it does not seem so. But why not since they are getting all this funding for the best players???? Dublin always had a population advantage so once a good management structure was put in place there were bound to improve
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » All the same issues you mention above exist in every single county in Ireland. Dublin is not the exception or a special case. Who knows how successful other counties might have become if those counties didn't have rugby, soccer, athletics as competitors. GDOs and GPOs prevent players going to competitors, and most counties don't have that luxury. The aims for increased funding to Dublin were: To increase crowds in Croke Park - fail - crowds have gone through the floor. Now the GAA have to resort to putting on concerts in the middle of championship season to earn money. Bertie to funnel money to his beloved Dublin under the smokescreen of getting the kids to play GAA. Its a pity Bertie didn't have the same regard for children of every other county. The source of all this had nothing to do with increasing participation as every county suffers with participation problems and Dublin is no different. Every county should be treated equally. When you get to a situation where one county has at least 1 GDO officer at most clubs and 2 at some, whereas other counties have very few, the sport becomes distorted. Carlow, a weak county, has 4 GDOs. Dublin has 80. An example of the extreme and unbalanced distortion in the sport. GDOs and more funding equals long term senior IC success. That's a given.
doc_17 wrote: » I’d be more in favour of splitting Dublin before I would even contemplate merging counties. It’s more in line with the ethos of the GAA.
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » It does produce players though we know that. Increasing participation and GDOs in Dublin may not have spread the game as widely as hoped, at least not significantly beyond the traditional Catholic Irish demographic. But at least it keeps that demographic interested, motivated and trained to a high standard. They are the bedrock of future IC success. Increased games development funds and GDOs equals long term IC success. The GAA have no business giving significantly more funds per player to one county than another as it creates a distortion. Its naïve to believe that increasing GDOs and funding doesn't produce an increasing number of highly trained players who will go on to represent the senior IC team. Dublin have/had more than enough funds themselves to look after GDOs, they don't actually need that much from the GAA. Other counties have nowhere near the commercial pull of Dublin. These are the counties that need help. The GAA really have screwed up the whole funding situation. Even if they started to reverse these mistakes now, it will take decades to unwind the mess they have made. But it looks like their approach is to bury their heads in the sand if John Horan is anything to go by. No problem, nothing to see here, as you were, is the attitude.
Dots1982 wrote: » doc_17 wrote: » I’d be more in favour of splitting Dublin before I would even contemplate merging counties. It’s more in line with the ethos of the GAA. Won’t do jack**** to help Wexford, Louth, Laois, Offaly, Sligo and on and on and on
doc_17 wrote: » Neither will it do them any good to merge them and wipe them out as entities.
doc_17 wrote: » Well obviously it’s my opinion. Like your opinion was your opinion. Isn’t that the whole point of this? I would give up following GAA altogether at “county” level if it meant Donegal had to merge with Tyrone. I’m from Donegal. That’s who I follow. It would be easier for Northsiders to follow a Dublin North team than for say a Leitrim person to follow a Sligo/Fermanagh/Leitrim team that maybe only had 3 players from Leitrim on it.
Dots1982 wrote: » Ultimately I think people will support a region team over not supporting anything anymore when it comes to elite GAA. The pull is too great and the interest in a new format and the prospect of actually competitive matches between teams that are full of actually elite players would lead to excitement. 32 elite teams in a small country like Ireland is not going to work in the modern era. Too many **** teams with average players that add nothing to the competition
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » Remind us how the Railway Cup fared again? Regional teams made up of the best players from the region including from the minnows. Recipe for a success you'd think? It sunk without trace. I think they were getting crowds of 200 for finals in recent years. They'd get similar crowds for a Sligo/Leitrim/Fermanagh team. It just would have no appeal to the average supporter. You can't turn off county allegiances overnight. There is nothing wrong with county teams as long as they are all given a chance to be competitive and that is not happening at present.
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » Remind us how the Railway Cup fared again? Regional teams made up of the best players from the region including from the minnows. Recipe for a success you'd think? It sunk without trace. I think they were getting crowds of 200 for finals in recent years. They'd get similar crowds for a Sligo/Leitrim/Fermanagh team. It just would have no appeal to the average supporter. You can't turn off county allegiances overnight. There is nothing wrong with county teams as long as they are all given a chance to be competitive and that is not happening at present. We know GDOs are the way forward and Dublin received huge help with those. Dubliners know their importance which is why they try to shut down any debate about them and instead introduce pie in the sky notions about combining countries. You can be sure they'd be against giving more GDOs to those regional teams too!
Dots1982 wrote: » Comparison doesn’t work. This is taking over from the county system not some pointless add on competition. There is something wrong with county teams. Fundamentally there are too many counties for too small a country.
kilns wrote: » Tell us one incidence where Dublin have objected to more coaching resources being allocated anywhere in the country? This is ridiculous stuff On a side note, do counties like Mayo and Kilkenny equally split their development funding resources between hurling and football?
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » What both counties received on average between 2007 and 2018 was a pittance compared to Dublin. It would fund at most 2 GDOs in each county, if the salaries are 40k/year.
kilns wrote: » ignore the question? (plus coaches to these counties come from provincial funding too)
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » You asked when did Dublin object to others getting more resources? They have to admit that they get far more resources than everyone else first. And then admit those resources should be redistributed. For the last couple of weeks we've have a number of people who have/had an involvement in Dublin football coming out to deny extra funding had anything to do with Dublin's success, it was all down to hard work, Jim Gavin, blah blah blah. Denial from the top to the bottom. So yes the answer is there is no willingness in Dublin to level the playing field, especially when they play dumb and pretend funding distribution doesn't matter. And the golden generation myth has also been put to bed. There's been a significant turnover of players since 2011 and there continues to be. So we know its not a golden generation of players and that its a vastly well funded system producing the players. One other thing made me laugh this week, Dean Rock saying he finds the Leinster championship competitive. You'd wonder what he's smoking
kilns wrote: » you were asked when did Dublin ever object to anyone else getting more funding, you have failed to answer that question
