bruschi wrote: » you are 100% in that. I wouldnt bash Dublin over this, and have been consistent in all my comments. Dublin were given a crapload of money but have invested in it very wisely and have set out a good standard of how to invest in coaching structures. My problem is the completely lopsided nationally invested in coaching structures. A huge amount of games development funding was given to Dublin, whether by main investment or at the expense of the rest, and it has worked really well there, but may counties are floundering and suffering. Whilst Dublin does not have to rely on any fundraising or money issues with regards to coaching structures, many other counties have to do extraordinary events to raise money to try bridge this coaching divide and try to catch up. Again, none of that is Dublins problem, but their coaching structures which is now minimally being run out in some other counties is years ahead of the rest. The fact that their county board can operate and fund their senior set ups and other county teams through corporate sponsors without having to divert funds to underage structures is a huge bonus that no other county has. They command the best revenue streams, have the biggest population, have the best resources at their door step and then on top of that were being given additional coaching structures and additional money over and above what any other county gets. It's fantastic for Dublin, but it has created a massive gap between them and the rest, particularly in Leinster.
Dots1982 wrote: » It isn’t actually when you look over their accounts. They fundraise 50k a year while the likes of mayo and Kerry fundraise close to a million in a year. The amount they pay in salaries is absolutely huge compared to their rivals. They rely on money from Croke Park as their biggest source of income. Dublin isn’t really a good model at all to follow. All other county boards would be bankrupt if they fundraised that little.
kilns wrote: » And do you not think Dublin clubs are not fundraising on a consistent basis to cover their costs?
Dots1982 wrote: » You didn’t say that. You said the Dublin county board are a model for other county boards. They aren’t at all. It’s completely wrong to hold them up as a model as no other county could copy the sponsorship deals Dublin get. No other county has GAA’s HQ as their biggest income source. No other county has HQ covering the cost of maintenance for their home venue. Your posts on a variety of things suggest you’re lacking a lot when it comes to any in-depth understanding of the GAA.
kilns wrote: » Ok you seem to have a blind spot when it comes to Dublin and kids in Dublin playing GAA. Take off your tin foil hat, it is not some masterplan to train elite Dublin galactos it is to get as many kids out playing as possible. Of course because of the numbers there are going to be a couple of gems in there but you go to any nursery in any club in Dublin and its not about finding the best player and giving them specialist coaching its about fun and participation.But for someone like you I think if all Dublin funding was cut to zero you would still have an issue with Dublin, that I cannot help you with
kilns wrote: » Yes, they have implemented a coaching and development strategy which every other county should be trying to follow. They have used the resources at their disposal and have got the most return out of them. Of course they have the biggest revenues but its what you do with that revenue which is important. Take Cork for example, the second biggest county in Ireland in terms of population, how much have they spent on a stadium that will get filled maybe once a year. I can gaurantee too my knowledge is quite extensive but I am open to correction on any topic and I do not hold any grudges or hatred towards other counties which you seem to do and again that is ok, thats your issue to deal with. You are from Kildare right? As Kildare have been allocated EUR 1.18 per child more than Dublin, are you happy with that? Are you happy with how Kildare Co Board are allocating this funding?
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » Nonsense, but a nice try. If Dublin won 20 in a row based off the same funding and same amount of GDOs per club as the rest of the country, I'd be the first to congratulate them. Even with the ton of other advantages they enjoy, such as home advantage for all their big games. The fact is they have far more GDOs per club than any other county. An advantage assisted by the GAA. And for this reason people will put asterixis and question marks beside their 5 in a row, whether you like it or not. You can complain all you want about that, but its not going to change people's minds. People perceive the decks are overwhelmingly loaded in Dublin's favour and hence question the validity of their success. You can personalise it and attack me personally like you have tried to do, but I'm only one person among thousands who question the current imbalances in the GAA. Are you going to personally attack them too? Or are will you accept the unfair funding imbalances enjoyed by Dublin which need to be rectified?
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » A very bad example to take. Dublin had their stadium built for free, leaving no huge debt issues. Free stadium and huge assistance with GDOs. How many more advantages can you give one county before it becomes a complete joke?
kilns wrote: » I agree 100% the coaching nationally is not good enough and Dublin is way ahead in those terms and its only now that other counties are catching up. Unfortunately certain counties put all their energies and resources into their senior set ups too
kilns wrote: » The point is Cork dont need a stadium of that size and the cost which was involved. They could have spent the money on building an amazing centre of excellence and emplying GPOs and employing the Dublin club model, but they have refused to do that
bruschi wrote: » I think you may be missing the point here. You do know that the coaching plan was specifically designed and only catered for Dublin. To say other counties are now only catching up is solely to do with the GAA set up and where they have invested their coaching costs. Using senior funding or infrastructure development as a reason to put back other counties is also folly. It wasnt a case that Cork could either invest in coaching or else a stadium. They didnt have millions to spend on coaching, they wouldnt have got the same grants and funding if it was solely to put into coaching instead. Similarly with county set ups, its not a case of one or the other, its about trying to ensure money is spent as best as possible. If a senior team is going well, the knock on effect is to get more young kids involved. Dublin dont have either problem. They have more than enough money for their senior set up and have been given way more than anyone else for their coaching development. Plus they have their infrastructure there too in the capital that they also dont have to worry about like other counties.
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » Its a separate issue. The GAA offered to help Cork build the stadium. Its possible the wouldn't have offered them help with anything else. I'd be the first to admit Pairc Ui Chaoimh is the latest in a long line of clusterf*cks the GAA have been involved in and also the idea of every county having their own huge stadium for once or twice a year games is foolish. That issue goes back decades. But the point stands, not everyone has the luxury of a brand new stadium handed to them free of charge.
Jaden wrote: » Again, there is a pattern here "every word" is an exaggeration and then an option stated as a fact "blatently unfair". I have given my opinion, but I have stated that it is just that - my opinion. I have not declared that I am right because I have said it. Now, if I said: "Face it lads, mckenna is wrong and everyone knows that you can see this too." .. then you would have a point. But I didn't. Calling fans gob****es because they disagree with someones opinion? Eh, OK. Personally, I believe he craves the attention. YMMV.
MayoAreMagic wrote: » How about if you said that he 'came across bitter and petty and with an axe to grind'? Sounds like a definite declaration to me. Not to mention, an inaccurate and personalised one.
MayoAreMagic wrote: » I dont see how he craves attention for simply reporting on a large issue in the gaa today.
MayoAreMagic wrote: » Its obvious to anyone with a bit of objectivity or cop on, that it is in fact a big story. Surely that is just the guys job?
MayoAreMagic wrote: » Do said social media gobsh*tes crave attention also? Are they bitter and petty and have an axe to grind? Why no personalised observations about them?
MayoAreMagic wrote: » How about if you said that he 'came across bitter and petty and with an axe to grind'? Sounds like a definite declaration to me. Not to mention, an inaccurate and personalised one. Re the gobsh*ties, clearly that is down to their actions rather than their opinion. I dont see how he craves attention for simply reporting on a large issue in the gaa today. Its obvious to anyone with a bit of objectivity or cop on, that it is in fact a big story. Surely that is just the guys job? Do said social media gobsh*tes crave attention also? Are they bitter and petty and have an axe to grind? Why no personalised 'observations' or 'opinions' about them?
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » Its not just MacKenna saying it though. Numerous journalists, sports scientists, etc have written on it. Its not a one man crusade. Anyone who raises their head over the parapet is subjected to a tirade of personal abuse from some quarters. Similar things were said about Paul Kimmage, particularly in relation to Lance Armstrong. "Bitter, Axe to grind, jealous begrudger". All these accusations were thrown at him. I'm seeing the same kind of language thrown about now from some quarters, exactly the same, along with the personal abuse. There's obviously an issue with the amount of GDO's Dublin have, far more than any other county and also with the funding Dublin has received. No-one can seriously argue this isn't the case. And the argument that its only used to help kids participate and doesn't help senior IC success down the road doesn't hold water. We know it does.
kilns wrote: » Sports Scientests have complained about Dublins funding? Care to name them? Unfortunately, the world has moved on since the days of Kimmage, news is more and more online and via social media and needs click bait headlines and sensational articles to gain readership, its is very hard to find good balanced journalism these days in any sport. McKenna can write good stuff but his articles are always let down due to his lack of balance and evidence in many cases. At the Austrialian Open he accussed Nadal of being on drugs because he takes long breaks from the game, without any evidence and the facts he used to back this up was that Nadal now is serving faster and hitting the ball harder than ever before, which was a complete lie, as in 2010 his stats say differently, that is just one example but there are many others. That is why he is not credible and is just like any other guy sitting on a barstool with an axe to grind Of course Dublin have more GDOs etc as its the strategic plan that was put in place and of course the more kids that are involved naturally means that more better players will be unearthed. But take Cork for example, the second biggest county in terms of population, they have only 7 GDOs and have refused to get any more up until now, the question must be asked why? They say they are considering it now. Its only natural sport needs villians, and Dublin are the current Gaelic Football villians and Dublin fans just have to realise that, it will pass and the mantle will be passed on again, maybe back to the Northern Teams who held it in the 2000s.
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » Twisting words again I see, a specialty of many Dublin supporters on here it seems. I didn't say they complained. I said they commented on them including the sports scientist in this article.https://www.balls.ie/gaa/gaa-investment-in-dublin-348120 Its bizarre and perhaps unprecedented that the administrators of a sport should do everything in their power to help one participant above all others. It doesn't matter if Dublin requested more GDOs or the GAA offered them. Its still wrong. And we can all agree that the extra funds to Dublin above all others to help increase participation is pure bullsh*t. The extra funds have a direct impact on senior intercounty success down the line, no-one disputes that, including most Dublin supporters. .
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » And we can all agree that the extra funds to Dublin above all others to help increase participation is pure bullsh*t. The extra funds have a direct impact on senior intercounty success down the line, no-one disputes that, including most Dublin supporters. There is a direct link between increased funding to Dublin and their increased intercounty success.
lukin wrote: » For me (and others I think) the thing we object to is not so much the excessive funding Dublin receive but the way that their supporters resolutely refuse to accept it has played any part in their success.
kilns wrote: » Correct me if I am wrong but I dont see any sport scientest quoted in that article and also the figures used in that article are just ridiculous and sum up how McKenna forms his arguments, a 40 year old could be a registered player are Games development funds aimed at him? What about the thousands and thousands of kids not registered and attending schools which GPOs go into and coach, should they not be counted? Again you are the type of person who will not see logic and will always be angry when it comes to Dublin (the villians) and understand the word development! Yes the development funds are to increase participation and are aimed at children and yes if the numbers increase of course as the bigger population centre Dublin will benefit in the long run as one or two gems might be found that otherwise might not be found, but 99% of the kids who might start playing GAA because of this will never wear a Dublin jersey but they will be involved, partcipate, stay healthy and make friends as they go along. But whats done is done now and Dublin per child does not received excess funding anymore, what is your solution for other counties to catch up on the Dublin coaching model?
bruschi wrote: » if the funds are to increase participation and we are using overall population as the basis, then surely the number of those being reached should therefore be registering with clubs and those numbers drastically increasing. But from the sparse figures so far, it doesnt look that way. There is a huge disparity between the overall per head of population figure and the actual registered member figure. If this is indeed the yardstick of success, then is that not a failure? Participating for an hour a week in school is great, but if those kids dont join clubs or at least see a significant jump in participation levels outside the school participation where they have little or no choice, then why do we use the overall population figure on one hand but not the actual numbers of registered players? Because the cost per registered player is significantly more than head of population.
kilns wrote: » I dont think anyone can or would deny there is a benefit from more kids being involved and GPOs getting to them ,
kilns wrote: » Nursery participation in Dublin has increase 20% year on year for the last 5 years which I would guess is quite succesful, these are kids aged 4-8 and would not be registered. I can only speak from my own club and over the last number of years the numbers have increase dramatically amongst very young children. Registration too can be covered under family so the actual registration figures again can be distorted If you ignore the general population and just concentrate on registered players then what is the point? Then Dublin GAA could focus their energies on the big clubs like Kilmacud etc and ignore less developed areas which have smaller clubs etc. The aim is to increase participation and if you go into a school and coach 30 kids who do not go to a nursery etc and then 5 turn up at the club, I would deem that a success.
lukin wrote: » See, this is exactly what I am talking about: "the money is all going to kids, it's not going into the senior team at all".
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » These 5 would likely turn up anyways. There is no evidence demographics other than the traditional Catholic Irish are registering in significant numbers. Dublin have had this increased funding for at least 10 years if not more. That's 10 years of training the next generation of players, and that next generation is catastrophically under represented by non nationals on elite Dublin IC squads. So what happened? With the right training are non nationals not as good as everyone else? We've seen in other counties they can compete at IC level and indeed win U21 AIs with Mayo for example. This is just one example how spreading the sport has been an utter failure in many regards in Dublin. It still remains the preserve of Catholic Irish who would register anyways, whether there are more GDOs or not. And still Dublin is lagging in overall player registration rates. So vast amounts of money are being pumped into train a relatively narrow elite of Dubliners. There's something amiss. That and why Dublin should be an exception when it comes to increasing participation. Why didn't the GAA decide to make all the other urban centres special projects, particularly for example Belfast which is prime territory for increasing participation. Sligo also has fallen badly behind in competitiveness, again a perfect candidate for increased funding. Cork hurlers are struggling to win AIs and the football has fallen behind. Participation in GAA is weak in many parts of Galway city. I'm guessing the GAA saw Dublin as a potential for easy money and hoped by pumping millions in they'd see huge crowds at Dublin games. That again has been a complete disaster and crowds have fallen off a cliff.
kilns wrote: » There is no point even getting into a debate with you anymore as I have answered all these points numerous times to you previously but I get it your from Mayo you hold a grudge against Dublin and no matter what logic or counter arguments are made you will still hate Dublin I have not heard one word from you how to improve other counties and if Mayo for example are applying their games development funding into their kids or pumping it into their senior team. Also to make a final point, you may not want to hear it but the GAA in Dublin is competing against so many other sports/hobbies etc for kids attention. In places like rural Mayo there is only one show in town alot of the time, so in that case, the coaching structure needs to be different and not about winning the hearts of kids but developing them. What is Mayo County Boards coaching vision/template for the next 10 years for example?
bruschi wrote: » with regards to your earlier point on the nursery, yes, it is great to see 20% increase, but I'd like to see how that stacks up country wide. In our club for example, with no investment, it has similar increases, mainly because there was never nurseries before and for most places it is a relatively new set up. further to your point above about Mayo spending their games development on their senior team, you do know that it is virtually impossible for this to happen? All these accounts have to be verified to the provincial council and wages are included in these figures which are paid by their employer which is the provincial council. Mayo do not have the ability to redistribute these funds and all expenditure on the under age teams which uses the development money has to be accounted for. This is an argument I have seen before which has virtually no understanding of how provincial investment in games development is spent or that actual workings of how they operate.
kilns wrote: » I know and I agree the figures need to be there, but I know from my club a nursery has been there for 30 years but only recently the numbers are increasing dramatically, I do not think rural Ireland would have the capacity to increase 20% year on year like urban clubs would but it has having a positive effect and then when the kids get coaching in the schools or at the club it is from professionals who have to earn the right to call themselves coaches and not volunteers I asked was it being diverted to the senior team, I dont think it is as I know Mayo are probably the best fundraisers out there apart from Kerry but it was in direct responses to some poster who claimed the same funds which are distributed to Dublin go into the senior team, I asked what is Mayos juvenile coaching template and plan I think a national plan needs to be implemented and adjusted for rural and urban areas.
