kilns wrote: » Look around the country, how many county grounds are way too big for their purpose. Would you rather have a big white elephant in your county which is eating up money or a thriving grassroots set up. A stadium 10000-15000 is more than sufficient for most games bar provinicial finals. How often is Paric ui Caoimh, Semple, Limerick, McHale Park, Clones, Port Laois full or even close to full for a game? It is the argument my other post is making, funds are allocated for games development but how much is actually going into games development.
Bonniedog wrote: » As one of the main protagonists in this proves, he does not even understand the basic math of betting odds and probability. And yet has expended probably dozens of hours of his time regurgitating statistics that he could not possibly understand either. In all that time he might have been attending a junior cert mathematics course for adults. Or even helping out in his local club, like others here do.
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » I presume that's directed at me? I didn't spend endless hours regurgitating statistics so stop with the lies like a good lad. I reposted a small number of statistics from other sources. A nice personal attack from you though, playing the man not the ball as usual. Clearly Dublin funding is a very touchy subject for you, to the point you put people on ignore rather than debate with them directly, a sign you haven't a leg to stand on.
kilns wrote: » I see you write that you need the games to be developed equally everywhere, do you have a comment on my post regarding the allocation of funds broken down per child ?
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » I do indeed. Look at the Dublin inter county male and female minor football and hurling teams for the last 10 years. Despite tens of millions invested in Dublin to increase games participation and spread the sport, you still can't find a non national name on any of those teams. Spreading the game my eyeball. There is something clearly wrong with how the funds are being spent in Dublin as participation appears to be low/non existent among non nationals who make up a large proportion of Dublin's population. The funds appear to be targeted at a narrow elite of players and participation outside this elite is abysmal.
grimbergen wrote: » I'm as anti-Dub as the best of them but I'm also mighty glad that the GAA has people of vision that realise you need to invest in the biggest population centre if you want to your games to develop.
kilns wrote: » Ok your point exactly shows you up. If you honestly thing all funding goes into only developing elite talent, you are either a troll or biased beyond belief. Do you know anything about the Dublin club scene?
Jaden wrote: » I might stand to be corrected, but I believe they pay 50% of the salary for one of the GDOs from Funding, and pay the rest themselves.
ArielAtom wrote: » If you are going to quote facts about clubs, at least get it right. Boden have a a GDO who is 50% funded by the GAA, other 50% by the club. This is available to every club in Ireland should they wish to avail of it. The other coach is fully funded by the club.
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » Enlighten us. Has the sport being spread beyond its traditional demographic of Catholic Irish? What most people can't get their head around is why Dublin should be prioritised over dozens of other areas in the country which have fallen behind in gaa sports and are in far more need of funds. This is the real scandal of funding.
kilns wrote: » Yes it has, I can only speak from first hand knowledge of my area and club and the schools there are very diverse (but far from the most diverse in the county) with many nationalities and all receive coaching time from the GPOs and from the school visits some have come and got involved in the nurseries and older teams in the club. With regard to your second point, the figures I have broken down for you clearly indicate the spread of financing for games development or do you object to this allocation? You should not make statements and allegations which you have no evidence for only your own biasness
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » I've no problem discussing this further but we need to deal with stats, not my stats, independent stats. Population of Dublin from 2016 Census 1.345 Millionhttp://www.dublinchamber.ie/business-agenda/about-dublin Registered GAA players in Dublin 2015 39,197https://www.balls.ie/gaa/gaa-investment-in-dublin-348120 The stats are independent and impartial can't be argued with.
bruschi wrote: » this is slightly leading to a question I have which no one seems to know or have an answer to that I have asked previously. I have no issue with people saying that the funding is for the overall participation and development of Dublin. However I want to see are there figures and stats to back up the increase in participation levels or retention levels of players. And even more importantly, how does it stack up to other counties and is there a clear distinguishable difference between what Dublin are doing and what other counties have. I am doubtful there are any figures on this but its probably one of the most important pieces of information for both sides of the argument.
kilns wrote: » I am only aware of nursery participation figures (children aged 4-8) in Dublin has increased year on year by 20% on average over the last few years as per the Dublin County board figures
bruschi wrote: » Yeah that would be a good starting point alright. I would imagine though it is similar in all counties as nursery programs have been a big thing for the past 4 or 5 years or so to establish in clubs. It'd be interesting to see if there is any difference between counties or how the long term participation rates in Dublin go, but again, I highly doubt we'll ever get proper stats on them. But at least it helps make the whole conversation and debate be endless and go round and round.
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » The retention level is very important. If you throw millions at participation and a lot of children give up the sport, its an inefficient use of money that could be used in counties where retention is higher, or the GAA is not getting value for its buck. There are definitely stats around retention. They are measured in percentages.
kilns wrote: » In addition I know that 80% of primary schools are linked with a club via a GPO in Dublin, it may have increased in that time too
MayoAreMagic wrote: » Well in fairness, when the monies raised for the dublin team within the county stands at around 3.8 cent per person, per year, I suppose they have plenty of cash to do other things with. Not that they actually do that because the gaa pay for the 50% indirectly anyway via blatent handouts which are documented to death from numerous sources at this stage... Then there is always the huge sponsorship cash that they can delve into also, if push comes to shove...
MayoAreMagic wrote: » The bottom line is this, you are merely moving the tables around on the titanic here. Even if dublin lose the all ireland this year, it wont change very much. They will still go and win another 8 of the next 10 after that. The damage is done and something needs to be done to fix it for the good of the game itself. There might well be 1.3 million people in dublin, but dont forget there are 6 odd million on the entire island, and that will be what wins out in the end...
MayoAreMagic wrote: » Similarly, the tactic of attacking ewan mckenna personally every time he is mentioned doesnt change the fact that his articles are for the most part factually accurate and seriously damning. The reality is people cant take on his articles so they attack the man himself every time his name is mentioned, which is actually quite nasty behaviour.
MayoAreMagic wrote: » This stuff about it simply being one great golden generation is long since disproven also, with the average age of the dublin team actually decreasing over the last few years. The reality is the stars of the so-called golden generation couldnt actually get a game for the last few seasons... As is this thing about sons of former players who were destined to be great anyway. They got the superior coaching and thus made better players because of it - that applies to every player across the board. Having your oul lad play in the 70s/80s hardly makes him a top coach today does it? Plenty intercounty gaa players had sons who couldnt kick a ball out of their way. Face it lads, mckenna is right and everyone knows that you can see this too. The constant personalised sniping at him is only serving to portray yourselves in a bad light.
bruschi wrote: » thats great, to get that sort of integration into the grassroots of population. It's an indication of where the differences are though between Dublin and others, as for example in Wexford, the club link via a GPO at the moment is approximately 33%. It may rise to about 45% later in the year, but it wont change much more for a while after that unless more investment or commitment by Leinster council to give the county more GPO access. They have fought extremely hard to get what they have now and it is proving to be a huge success and it is noticeable the difference it is making on underage coaching and development. Not to harp on too much about grants or funding etc, but that in itself shows the difference between Dublin and outside it. Previously a poster said every club in Ireland can get a GPO when in fact they cannot, and at the moment Dublin have investment and commitment that gives them 80% coverage in primary schools in the biggest populated area whereas Wexford, who have under the Leinster council scheme one of the largest GPO investments are currently at 33%. Some counties would have 0% GPO involvement in club/school links through absolutely no fault of their own other than the investment and commitment is not being put forward by the GAA in their respective province.
kilns wrote: » Can you provide these retention statistics? Also, that is a can of worms, what if for example the retention statistics are higher in Dublin than say Mayo, should Mayos funding be decreased and Dublins increased as Dublin retain more kids, thats a dangerous model to use
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » I have seen some stats but can't find them at the minute. I will have a look again later. Someone else might have them? Any model of funding or changes has to be designed to bring some competitiveness back and make all counties competitive. A basic standard would be that all counties should at least be capable of reaching a provincial final once in a while. I know that mightn't have happened before, but we have a chance going forward to aim for that. Once that is achieved, the next step is that every county has the ability to win their own province. What we shouldn't be aiming for is helping successful counties to become even more successful, and that is exactly the model we have at the moment. Lack of competitiveness kills a sport. We only have to look at the death of the Leinster Championship to see that.
Jaden wrote: » So, you are stating that specifically Ballyboden don't pay just 25% of their GDA costs from Games Development Funding? You have actual proof that in this specific case that the GAA are funding GDAs completely by some nefarious means? So the GAA is undemocratic, and needs to be replaced or disbanded? The guy once liked a tweet that celebrated the stabbing of a Dublin Senior footballer. His initial reaction to Dublin winning the AI in 2017 was to tweet and delete "Bollocks bollocks bollocks". Yesterday, he moaned that an U14 team had a kitman and wellness coach. It was irrelevant, misleading and petty. Separating the person from the issues, he comes across as a bitter and angry individual with an axe to grind. He seeks merely to keep himself relevant by rehashing the same clickbait articles over an over again. As to the validity of what he writes, opinion would be divided on the issue of their merit. I personally see little merit, YMMV. My biggest bugbear is that he does not look at data and draw an unbiased conclusion, he comes to a conclusion and finds a dataset view that supports that. Stating an opinion as fact, does not a fact make it.
kilns wrote: » and would these stats by any chance say that Dublin does not retain kids and therefore their funding according to your hypothesis should be slashed?You are missing the point of the funding, it is not aimed to making succesful counties more succesful, it is about getting as many kids out playing the games as possible and as Dublin as been succesful in doing this the byproduct of this is that Dublin are successful. The lack of competitiveness needs to address in other areas, the Leinster and Munster championship are one one team championships currently, that needs to be addressed but that is a another topic entirely
kilns wrote: » That is why Dublin should be an example to follow and not to bash. It is a very well run county board which knows its priorities unlike some others which are plagued by politics. The thing now is to get GPOs on the ground in all these counties and covering as many kids as possible. You dont need a GPO per club in rural areas one GPO could over a 2 or 3 clubs. But we need to get away from the usual funding bashing argument as that is not what its about, its about kids and getting them involved. Dublin always as and always will be one of the top teams, but its only now they have got their act together and have a good management team along with a one of two once in a life time players.
kilns wrote: » That is why Dublin should be an example to follow and not to bash. It is a very well run county board which knows its priorities unlike some others which are plagued by politics. .
MayoAreMagic wrote: » Ironic that you say stating an opinion does not make it fact, when every word of your post on mckenna is opinion, and a blatently unfair one at that...
MayoAreMagic wrote: » He actually comes across as a man who has the figures to prove his point and is just sick of the gobsh*te fans whose sole purpose in life seems to be to chase him around on social media posting the same disproven responses over and over, word for word. People who clearly already know they are wrong but just want to muddy the waters for personal gain, despite it being to the detriment of the game itself. In all fairness, who could blame him?
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » Much of the funding has gone to clubs in the form of GDOs. How on earth can this not produce better players? Most Dublin footballers at club level are assisted, advised and trained by paid professionals. If GDOS are assisting the training of younger players, of course this gives them a long term advantage. "Increasing participation" is just a cover for training an elite of Dublin players to a very high level. They are certainly not using it to train Mohammad or Agnieska to even a reasonable level, because as we have seen none of these non nationals are making it to IC level.
