etxp wrote: » but if they never go in the bunkers they wont get better at playing out of them :eek:
Seve OB wrote: » laying up is not always all its made out to be. sure if you don't have the range to make the distance, then you just have to lay up, but that's a different scenario
TitianGerm wrote: » I'd expect a 12 handicapper to be much more consistent in their shots than someone off 18 though. The correct shot for you may very well have been to go for the green in two especially if you've no shot there. Now the 18 player my not be able to hit a 4 iron 210 and will have to hit a 5/3 wood. This makes the shot a bit harder. The correct shot for the higher player, especially if they are not confident in the club/distance, is to lay up to 100 and take the bunkers out of play. Up and down from there will give them 4 points or on and two puts will give them 3 points. If they go for it with the 3 wood then they may catch the bunker and then will be giving themselves a tougher shot to get up and down for their birdie than if they were in the middle of the fairway. I hit my 4 iron no more than 170. If it was me I'd hit the 100 as my bad shot is to leak the ball to the right (can be a slice but have almost gotten rid of that now). I'm fairly confident of hitting the ball within 10 feet from that distance and would be very confident of not having more than two putts from there. If there's no trouble to the left of the green I may hit the 3 wood up there depending on pin position and how much green I have to work with when chipping.
TitianGerm wrote: » I don't like sand so I stay out of them :pac: Could declare it unplayable and take a penalty drop
etxp wrote: » So when you go in the sand you take a penalty!! Excellent course management
megabomberman wrote: » I think this is a good point, for us high handicappers if a green isn't surrounded by water or white stakes I think a dig of the 3 wood off the deck can be the best option. At least in my case where there is absolutely no guarantee I won't hit two reckless mid/short irons after taking the 'sensible' option anyway.
Seve OB wrote: » played a game the other day, par 5, I got a good drive away and left myself about 215 to the pin, bunkers short and right of a small green, pin tucked away . clever shot was to lay up short of the bunkers about 70 yards out and chip in from there. so I took out a 4 iron and went for it. stuck it to 12 foot. missed the eagle by an inch but a tap in birdie. some of you guys would have had me playing course management shots where I would have been lucky to make par and bringing bogey into play. by taking on the shot I was not making things any worse for myself, sure I could have ended up in a bunker, but isn't that what a sand wedge is for
GreeBo wrote: » I think that's the basic flaw in high handicap golfers. "Sure i can duff a 7 iron too so i might as well hit the 3w" In all my experience that is flawed logic
blue note wrote: » I like this example. It's a good example of when you should actually think about the consequences instead of just playing safe. The crucial thing here is that a bunker isn't the worst place to be. Even when I had a handicap in the 20s, if I was in a bunker I'd more often than not get it out, into the green in the general direction of the hole. So it was usually a spot out and a 2 putt. Not a bad scenario if things go wrong. Whereas if I lay up successfully, I might have to chip over the bunkers. I still hate that shot and there's every chance I'll go into them, or blade it over the green. Or I could lay up further back and leave myself a full wedge into the green. But I'd fancy myself to get it more consistently close from the bunker. And if course there's always the chance I'll hit the green. And a birdie is worth 4 points off 18. I suppose the thing to remember is that course management isn't just about playing safe.
blue note wrote: » I think for the real beginners, a 7 wood or the like can be their favourite club with good reason. When you duff an iron, you can be walking 10 yards to hit it again. When you knock a wood you might still get 100 yards from it. It can make the round much more enjoyable to have a club that you sometimes hit 180 yards and sometimes you knock it but it still brings the green into range. But once you're down below 20 if it's still your favourite club it's probably holding you back.
GreeBo wrote: » You probably dont have enough bounce on your LW, you want 12+ really, otherwise you end up digging and the ball will not come out (well it can, but you need to know how to play it!) If hitting a bunker means at least 3 more shots and often more, then you need to manage your way to avoid bunkers at all costs. That may sound crazy (why would I lay up with an 8i or why am I not aiming for the green) but just look at whats its costing you! How many times does hitting the green lead to a birdie vs how many times does hitting a bunker lead to a scratch? What handicap are you and what do you expect to be under the new system?
GreeBo wrote: » Leaving yourself a distance that you are not good at is bad course management!!! The previous shot selection was the issue. I played with a guy last week who thought course management was just not hitting a driver off the tee. He couldnt understand why hitting a 4 iron and then trying to hit the green with his 3 wood wasnt a sensible approach on index 1 par 4 Higher handicaps should take more club when hitting to the green 90% of the time because 95% of the time the trouble is short. I know you had one scenario where there was trouble over the back but if you analyse most holes on most courses, all the trouble is short or at most halfway up the green.
willabur wrote: » I love talking about it also. Another thing about Corballis is that its not typical links golf as there are not many chances to bump and run the ball. You are forced to carry the ball to your targets and the targets are tiny and the rough is penal, I think a good striker of the ball well will have more scratches than on a larger course if they are careless about what lines they are taking Question about 2nd hole, I remember the pin was on the right hand side of the green, Wind was negligible. What was your intention with your approach shot?
blue note wrote: » I was going for the middle of the green. If I remember correctly I was a little less than 90m out. And I just hit it slightly too hard and pushed it a little to the right, it carried an extra 10m, landed on the downslope after the green and bounced into the thick rough. First attempt at getting it out moved it about an inch, second moved it about a yard forward. The problem with hitting to come to the front of the green is that if you go right you're chipping up that awful little slope. Middle of the green is the smart play on that hole. And it's the least forgiving course I've played. This summer I played Portmarnock links, Narin and Portsalon. While all three of those are harder, they're more forgiving. There's a little more room around the greens and generally when I off the fairways I had a shot out of the rough.
Seve OB wrote: » Sorry I have to disagree with you there. If you are on the left to centre of the fairway your smart play will be short left side of the green, allowing for a hard bounce and it might run on. If you come up a little short, it’s a good miss. Less so if you are out the right side though as a hard bounce will see you go left, trouble and possibly OB, centre would be a better play from that side
blue note wrote: » I thought I'd reply here as I was dragging the other thread off topic. But I quite enjoy talking about course management and myself, so I might as well reply.
I reckon the club doesn't have enough bounce. It's actually a great club, but just not for bunkers. But it had more loft so I said I'd give it a go out of them. My normal form in bunkers is to get it onto the green and two putt. So they're not to be avoided at all costs for me, but I do try to avoid them. And actually, looking at that particular hole on hdid, the last time I scratched it (double or worse) was October 19. Just over a year between scratches and I've had 2 birdies on it.
I almost agree fully with the first point. The one cavaet I have is if it is a shot that you cannot avoid having frequently on a course, there's no use avoiding it, because you'll have to hit it sometimes anyway. And the best way to learn it is practicing it. And shots from 100m - 40m I find difficult and there's no avoiding them. The second being a good example - laying up to say 120m is a very tricky landing area compared to 100m. And you will probably be hitting on an upslope. In this case, even with the second shot being difficult for me it's the right option. the 100m or less shot is also unavoidable on the 4th, 6th and 7th.
I also agree that course management is not just playing safe / avoiding the driver. The best hole for me statistically is the 11th in Corballis, where I more often than not try to drive the green. The main reason for this is because I hate the approach shot if I lay up. It's always a bad, sandy lie. You're hitting blind, uphill to the green from a distance I don't like. So I tend to hit a 3/5 wood at the green. I'm rarely putting, but tend to come out with a 4/5 on the hole.
I'm not sure about the higher handicaps should take more club mantra either. 3 of my scratches were from going long. And in my experience, the bunkers tend to be at the front of greens, but the bushes / thick links rough tends to be at the back. So unless there's water at the front, I'd be more nervous of running off the back of the green. It's very rare I'm not aiming for the middle of the green to be honest anyway.
And I'm currently off 14.1. I plugged my rounds into the calculator and came out with 16.8 a little while ago. I think I've had another couple of bad rounds since, so that could be higher now.
GreeBo wrote: » Its the trainspotting of golf, and I love it Yeah, for years I played with a 60* that only had 4* of bounce as I loved opening it up and cutting the ball in the air. I had myself convinced that I wouldnt be able to do this with more bounce. Last time I was buying wedges I could only get 12 and 14* there and then, so I just went with it. Has made zero difference to opening it up and has made bunkers and regular chipping easier, its so much harder to duff it. I dont know the course at all, but this might be one of those rare occasions where not laying up is the better option. We have a par 5 where laying up leaves you with a <100M downhill wedge to a raised green with huge drop offs either side and surrounded by bunkers. Often just hitting enough club for your second to get you through the next of the fairway (its tree lined just in case!) works out better, you might not get the birdie but you have to be pretty unlucky not to get the par. 5th in Grange is the same, its a shortish uphill par 4 with pot bunkers short of the green and either side of it. Its a dogleg right with trees up both sides, but if you are long enough you have to be pretty unlucky to get blocked out. Playing short off the tee leaves you with anywhere from 6-8i to the green. I birdie the hole 25% of the time and par it the rest. hitting a hard driver is the safe shot here. Links style courses might cause the advice not the ring true, but Id say 90% of parklands have nothing beyond the green on most of the holes, and even if they do, its only an issue if you happen to hit the all perfectly, if that was a problem we'd be off lower handicaps Yeah, you did mention though that you score better elsewhere, so maybe you just need a new strategy for corballis. Most people who join my club go out 2-3 shots until the figure it out so its not uncommon.
GreeBo wrote: » Its the trainspotting of golf, and I love it Yeah, for years I played with a 60* that only had 4* of bounce as I loved opening it up and cutting the ball in the air. I had myself convinced that I wouldnt be able to do this with more bounce. Last time I was buying wedges I could only get 12 and 14* there and then, so I just went with it. Has made zero difference to opening it up and has made bunkers and regular chipping easier, its so much harder to duff it. 5th in Grange is the same, its a shortish uphill par 4 with pot bunkers short of the green and either side of it. Its a dogleg right with trees up both sides, but if you are long enough you have to be pretty unlucky to get blocked out. Playing short off the tee leaves you with anywhere from 6-8i to the green. I birdie the hole 25% of the time and par it the rest. hitting a hard driver is the safe shot here.
GreeBo wrote: » Its the trainspotting of golf, and I love it Links style courses might cause the advice not the ring true, but Id say 90% of parklands have nothing beyond the green on most of the holes, and even if they do, its only an issue if you happen to hit the all perfectly, if that was a problem we'd be off lower handicaps Yeah, you did mention though that you score better elsewhere, so maybe you just need a new strategy for corballis. Most people who join my club go out 2-3 shots until the figure it out so its not uncommon.
