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The End for Youghal?

Isambard

and other lines

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/midleton-youghal-line-may-formally-shut/2572831/

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whisky_galore

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

I use the train from little island and glounthane and the car parks are pretty full if not overflowing now most working days. The little island car park was designed by an idiot though and is not fit for purpose with inadequate clearances and turning circles.

There are lots of east cork commuters using this service and it is actually getting busier with each passing month.

If the council's had any sense they would expand one of the carparks and heavily promote it as an eastern park and ride

That one is very poorly designed, reminds me of those Matchbox car garage playsets with the parking spaces on the roof. Only the very smallest cars can get around it without hopping a kerb.

ArmaniJeanss

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

They're pretty full most days, but they're not yet at capacity was my point,

I'd have thought a p&r being used at full capacity would be a bad thing.
It's better for it always to be slightly bigger than what's needed than slightly smaller.

hans aus dtschl

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I'd have thought a p&r being used at full capacity would be a bad thing.
It's better for it always to be slightly bigger than what's needed than slightly smaller.

That's somewhat beside the point.

The point...once again....was that a park and ride at Youghal won't be a definitive east Cork traffic cure/resolution as it stands, instead an all-encompassing transport strategy is what's needed.
Such strategies nowadays all focus first on pedestrians, second on cyclists, third on public transport and finally on private motor vehicles.

Look we can discuss how much we'd all like to see rail to Youghal, and we can all be sincere about it too. But there's a number of reasons that the greenway is the correct medium-term choice as it stands.

in its favour:
Train at Youghal won't take significant volumes of traffic off the east Cork corridor as it stands. (the point we're currently discussing, in terms of P&R facilities)
Low population density along the line means it's not on Irish Rail's long list of works, because they don't see it as being as financially viable as other projects.
Greenway (pedestrian/cycling) and green transport strategies are low-cost and high-return (it's an easy project with some known return on investment).
The money and political will is available right now (it's a fast project which can be completed soon).
The alignment's already had encroachment (a flimsy argument, but Irish Rail have not been protecting the line to date).
It progresses the previously-published transport strategies for the East Cork area a small bit further.

Against it is the following:
We'd like to have an active east Cork rail corridor (for which there is currently no money or significant political will).
The proposed greenway might prevent future rail (this has not been proven).

marno21

€8m provided in funding for the Greenway.

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1143165753421717506

Greenway it is then.

jimmythedivil

As nice as the greenways are, some of these old railway lines could have been used today. Always thought it was a shame the Passage line never reopened, especially as Passage has now become a largely populated area.

Cork Trucker

marno21 wrote: »

€8m provided in funding for the Greenway.

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1143165753421717506

Greenway it is then.

Fcuking disgusted :mad:

Markcheese

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Fcuking disgusted :mad:

Yup, so am I, theyre only giving 8 million of a 15 million build cost...

Markcheese

jimmythedivil wrote: »

As nice as the greenways are, some of these old railway lines could have been used today. Always thought it was a shame the Passage line never reopened, especially as Passage has now become a largely populated area.

Ironically passage is really close to a commuter rail line, if only they'd provide a couple of pedestrian ferries across from passage west to train stations on the other side..

Cork Trucker

Markcheese wrote: »

Yup, so am I, theyre only giving 8 million of a 15 million build cost...

i believe we are disgusted for very different reasons.

Markcheese

Cork Trucker wrote: »

i believe we are disgusted for very different reasons.

I think you're right,
(although if I got the chance I'd put another station out past midleton, as near to the n25 as possible, with a park and ride..

Cork Trucker

Markcheese wrote: »

I think you're right,
(although if I got the chance I'd put another station out past midleton, as near to the n25 as possible, with a park and ride..

There's a bit of land on the Mogeely to Castlemartyr road that could accommodate this, then if you are that close to Killeagh the argument for their station would come up.

Quackster

jimmythedivil wrote: »

As nice as the greenways are, some of these old railway lines could have been used today. Always thought it was a shame the Passage line never reopened, especially as Passage has now become a largely populated area.

It would make sense to use the alignment as part of an east/west cross-city tram line between Ballincollig and Passage.

I personally don't see the viability of reopening the rail line to Youghal at any time in the foreseeable future, due the potential catchment population size and distance from the existing line, so am delighted that the greenway is progressing.

Itssoeasy

Well the people of youghal when it dawns on them what they’ve given away and they come crying about being isolated transport wise can feck off.

hans aus dtschl

Quackster wrote: »

It would make sense to use the alignment as part of an east/west cross-city tram line between Ballincollig and Passage.

I personally don't see the viability of reopening the rail line to Youghal at any time in the foreseeable future, due the potential catchment population size and distance from the existing line, so am delighted that the greenway is progressing.

That's exactly it. This is a case of a perfect dream meeting an imperfect reality for some people.
I will wholeheartedly campaign for Midleton to Mogeely rail extension if the local development plans start looking at developing Mogeely. But let's acknowledge that even with no greenway this is not on IÉ's radar or Cork County Council's radar whatsoever right now.

Also, the long term plan is for BOTH greenway and rail line all the way from Dunkettle to Youghal. Widening the alignment will be easier if it's actually in-use rather than encroached upon. I would still like to see this happen.

Cork Trucker

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Also, the long term plan is for BOTH greenway and rail line all the way from Dunkettle to Youghal. Widening the alignment will be easier if it's actually in-use rather than encroached upon. I would still like to see this happen.

This is the Green Party proposal as well believe it or not. I actually backed them on it when they held a meeting in Youghal a while back, the N25 is a disaster, the railway line once incentivised would have helped ease congestion over time, especially with one or two P&R's thrown into the mix.

hans aus dtschl

Cork Trucker wrote: »

This is the Green Party proposal as well believe it or not. I actually backed them on it when they held a meeting in Youghal a while back, the N25 is a disaster, the railway line once incentivised would have helped ease congestion over time, especially with one or two P&R's thrown into the mix.

I can tell you that they were quite actively engaged in trying to get the greenway blocked.
I can not tell you that they're quite as actively engaged in getting the Inter-Urban cycle route completed: I have no evidence of that to date. An under-designed western section at Dunkettle is currently going to build.

Cork Trucker

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I can tell you that they were quite actively engaged in trying to get the greenway blocked.
I can not tell you that they're quite as actively engaged in getting the Inter-Urban cycle route completed: I have no evidence of that to date. An under-designed western section at Dunkettle is currently going to build.

Even they know that once this railway is tarred over then that is it for the railway forever. Side by side with the railway no problem, The Dunkettle interchange will be an interesting one when it happens.

hans aus dtschl

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Even they know that once this railway is tarred over then that is it for the railway forever. Side by side with the railway no problem

Like the Blackrock one?

hans aus dtschl

Cork Trucker wrote: »

The Dunkettle interchange will be an interesting one when it happens.

I'm looking forward to it being completed as a car driver.
Not so much as a cyclist: I'll try and avoid cycling anywhere near the new design.

In the words of one of the engineers responsible for designing it: "hopefully nobody will use it".

Cork Trucker

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Like the Blackrock one?

The Blackrock one may become a LUAS line in the future. The West Cork Line is evidence of how not to do it.

Cork Trucker

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I'm looking forward to it being completed as a car driver.
Not so much as a cyclist: I'll try and avoid cycling anywhere near the new design.

In the words of one of the engineers responsible for designing it: "hopefully nobody will use it".

Both as a car and truck driver I’ll have to use it. I haven’t cycled in about 20 years.

The interchange will be along the lines of the Redcow interchange in Dublin I think

hans aus dtschl

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Both as a car and truck driver I’ll have to use it. I haven’t cycled in about 20 years.

The interchange will be along the lines of the Redcow interchange in Dublin I think

I live very near it. So the new design will make my life lots more difficult as a cyclist.
But at least it'll encourage me to commute by car.

hans aus dtschl

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Even they know that once this railway is tarred over then that is it for the railway forever.

Cork Trucker wrote: »

The Blackrock one may become a LUAS line in the future. The West Cork Line is evidence of how not to do it.

I don't fully follow on how you square these two statements?

I agree that the West Cork line was a huge mistake btw

Cork Trucker

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I don't fully follow on how you square these two statements?

I agree that the West Cork line was a huge mistake btw

I should clarify it’s a proposal. The LUAS outside of Dublin is I think in the eyes of the government.

The West cork line today would be a major asset. To even attempt to reopen that line would cost billions between CPO’s and alterations to roads etc.

whisky_galore

jimmythedivil wrote: »

As nice as the greenways are, some of these old railway lines could have been used today. Always thought it was a shame the Passage line never reopened, especially as Passage has now become a largely populated area.

In the highly unlikely event that a rebuild was on the cards, you can be sure objections would come from the very same people who are stuck in traffic every week.

Markcheese

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well the people of youghal when it dawns on them what they’ve given away and they come crying about being isolated transport wise can feck off.

Jaysus, the line hasn't been used since the early 80s... If they haven't noticed yet, I don't think they'll notice now,

Del.Monte

Markcheese wrote: »

Jaysus, the line hasn't been used since the early 80s... If they haven't noticed yet, I don't think they'll notice now,

A lot of locals (and others) have campaigned to have the line to Youghal reopened but the local politicians have utterly failed to support any proposal. The people of Youghal have only themselves to blame by repeatedly voting these people into office.

loyatemu

Markcheese wrote: »

Jaysus, the line hasn't been used since the early 80s... If they haven't noticed yet, I don't think they'll notice now,

and the rest, when was there last a regular schedule on the line as opposed to Knock or seaside specials?

Cork Trucker

loyatemu wrote: »

and the rest, when was there last a regular schedule on the line as opposed to Knock or seaside specials?

think the last regular service was 1963. specials were laid on until 1988. 7 miles of track lifted in 1992, the track outside the station in Youghal in 2008

marno21

loyatemu wrote: »

and the rest, when was there last a regular schedule on the line as opposed to Knock or seaside specials?

1963. But remember in the 1960s there was a plan to demolish swathes of Cork City Centre for motorways. There wasn't a plan to build a public transport & cycling network in Cork. There wasn't large scale office developments in Cork City Centre.